2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[nickagneta]

Wow, All i have to say is wow.  It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. 

[dang] and DL isn't even a GM.

j.r. must have paid him off in TP's.  

Just kidding jr and dl......just kidding!!!

[dark_lord]

since i have been asked to validate toronto as my last place team, here it goes:


i believe their bench is very week. big z and finley are over the hill and dont bring much to the table.  barea is ok, but is very undersized.  i think he had some success bc he caught people off guard, but now teams know how to play him. belinelli is overrated on these boards.  he is very soft...a physical guard would kill him.  warrick is average at best.  maynor and griffin are garbage, imo.

andre miller is vastly overrated.  he pounds the ball too much and is average at best. he would be a solid backup but not as a starter, imo.  garcia is a role player off the bench, solid, but nothing more than average, imo.  artest is very good, but he is a wildcard.  i wouldnt want him on my team if i were a gm bc he is unpredictable and has a history of imploding teams.  kg, their best player is coming of a major knee injury and is an older player (love him, but being objective).  camby is another player vastly overrated in these boards.  solid defender, but not a lockdown big, imo bc of his lack of strength and size. he brings nothing offensively. 

a few great defenders, but only decent defensively as a team. but they lack good offensive power. should have kept arenas, instead of trading for miller.

[bucknersrevenge]

Wow, All i have to say is wow.  It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. 

I'd like to see an explanation / justification for that vote.

(And I guess that I am publicly speaking up for Toronto here, like I was accused of earlier, but this just seems a little off the wall.)

Maybe DL just doesn't like the fit of his team. No matter what there are going to be some drastic differences in voting and what seems pretty clear to one person just may not be the way someone else sees it. Then again...maybe dl is being strategic and because he isn't a GM he just doesn't care.  

[Roy Hobbs]

since i have been asked to validate toronto as my last place team, here it goes:


i believe their bench is very week. big z and finley are over the hill and dont bring much to the table.  barea is ok, but is very undersized.  i think he had some success bc he caught people off guard, but now teams know how to play him. belinelli is overrated on these boards.  he is very soft...a physical guard would kill him.  warrick is average at best.  maynor and griffin are garbage, imo.

andre miller is vastly overrated.  he pounds the ball too much and is average at best. he would be a solid backup but not as a starter, imo.  garcia is a role player off the bench, solid, but nothing more than average, imo.  artest is very good, but he is a wildcard.  i wouldnt want him on my team if i were a gm bc he is unpredictable and has a history of imploding teams.  kg, their best player is coming of a major knee injury and is an older player (love him, but being objective).  camby is another player vastly overrated in these boards.  solid defender, but not a lockdown big, imo bc of his lack of strength and size. he brings nothing offensively. 

a few great defenders, but only decent defensively as a team. but they lack good offensive power. should have kept arenas, instead of trading for miller.

I understand why those could all be considered flaws.

What I don't understand is how a team led by KG ranks behind Charlotte's squad.  I mean, Charlotte ranked *himself* 14th in the league, ahead of only Miami (and well behind Toronto).

[dark_lord]

since i have been asked to validate toronto as my last place team, here it goes:


i believe their bench is very week. big z and finley are over the hill and dont bring much to the table.  barea is ok, but is very undersized.  i think he had some success bc he caught people off guard, but now teams know how to play him. belinelli is overrated on these boards.  he is very soft...a physical guard would kill him.  warrick is average at best.  maynor and griffin are garbage, imo.

andre miller is vastly overrated.  he pounds the ball too much and is average at best. he would be a solid backup but not as a starter, imo.  garcia is a role player off the bench, solid, but nothing more than average, imo.  artest is very good, but he is a wildcard.  i wouldnt want him on my team if i were a gm bc he is unpredictable and has a history of imploding teams.  kg, their best player is coming of a major knee injury and is an older player (love him, but being objective).  camby is another player vastly overrated in these boards.  solid defender, but not a lockdown big, imo bc of his lack of strength and size. he brings nothing offensively. 

a few great defenders, but only decent defensively as a team. but they lack good offensive power. should have kept arenas, instead of trading for miller.

I understand why those could all be considered flaws.

What I don't understand is how a team led by KG ranks behind Charlotte's squad.  I mean, Charlotte ranked *himself* 14th in the league, ahead of only Miami (and well behind Toronto).

i think i explained myself in detail hobbsy.  they dont have scorers.  kg, their best player is coming off a serious injury.  they strength is supposed to be defense, but i only see artest, kg, and camby (although overrated as a defender, imo) as defensive players.  as a whole, i think the team is weak defensively.

[KCattheStripe]

since i have been asked to validate toronto as my last place team, here it goes:


i believe their bench is very week. big z and finley are over the hill and dont bring much to the table.  barea is ok, but is very undersized.  i think he had some success bc he caught people off guard, but now teams know how to play him. belinelli is overrated on these boards.  he is very soft...a physical guard would kill him.  warrick is average at best.  maynor and griffin are garbage, imo.

andre miller is vastly overrated.  he pounds the ball too much and is average at best. he would be a solid backup but not as a starter, imo.  garcia is a role player off the bench, solid, but nothing more than average, imo.  artest is very good, but he is a wildcard.  i wouldnt want him on my team if i were a gm bc he is unpredictable and has a history of imploding teams.  kg, their best player is coming of a major knee injury and is an older player (love him, but being objective).  camby is another player vastly overrated in these boards.  solid defender, but not a lockdown big, imo bc of his lack of strength and size. he brings nothing offensively. 

a few great defenders, but only decent defensively as a team. but they lack good offensive power. should have kept arenas, instead of trading for miller.

I understand why those could all be considered flaws.

What I don't understand is how a team led by KG ranks behind Charlotte's squad.  I mean, Charlotte ranked *himself* 14th in the league, ahead of only Miami (and well behind Toronto).

i think i explained myself in detail hobbsy.  they dont have scorers.  kg, their best player is coming off a serious injury.  they strength is supposed to be defense, but i only see artest, kg, and camby (although overrated as a defender, imo) as defensive players.  as a whole, i think the team is weak defensively.

I think the criticism is legit, I just don't think placing them last is. I can buy out of the playoffs, but not DFL.

[dark_lord]

since i have been asked to validate toronto as my last place team, here it goes:


i believe their bench is very week. big z and finley are over the hill and dont bring much to the table.  barea is ok, but is very undersized.  i think he had some success bc he caught people off guard, but now teams know how to play him. belinelli is overrated on these boards.  he is very soft...a physical guard would kill him.  warrick is average at best.  maynor and griffin are garbage, imo.

andre miller is vastly overrated.  he pounds the ball too much and is average at best. he would be a solid backup but not as a starter, imo.  garcia is a role player off the bench, solid, but nothing more than average, imo.  artest is very good, but he is a wildcard.  i wouldnt want him on my team if i were a gm bc he is unpredictable and has a history of imploding teams.  kg, their best player is coming of a major knee injury and is an older player (love him, but being objective).  camby is another player vastly overrated in these boards.  solid defender, but not a lockdown big, imo bc of his lack of strength and size. he brings nothing offensively. 

a few great defenders, but only decent defensively as a team. but they lack good offensive power. should have kept arenas, instead of trading for miller.

I understand why those could all be considered flaws.

What I don't understand is how a team led by KG ranks behind Charlotte's squad.  I mean, Charlotte ranked *himself* 14th in the league, ahead of only Miami (and well behind Toronto).

i think i explained myself in detail hobbsy.  they dont have scorers.  kg, their best player is coming off a serious injury.  they strength is supposed to be defense, but i only see artest, kg, and camby (although overrated as a defender, imo) as defensive players.  as a whole, i think the team is weak defensively.

I think the criticism is legit, I just don't think placing them last is. I can buy out of the playoffs, but not DFL.

sorry u feel that way kc...but its what i think. 

[Rondo2287]

I dont even know what to say right now.  

You say, "I only see Artest, Camby, and KG as defensive players." and then follow it with but "They are weak defensively"

This is the most transparent attempt at sabotage of any vote cast thusfar in the game.  I expect that it will not be counted, and I think that as somebody that wasnt even part of this game, to come into this and try to stick me in the basement as some sort of payback, shows a great deal of pettyness.  

[dark_lord]

i voted the way i felt, and i validated it.  all within the rules of this thing.  seems legit, especially since i broke down my vote

[wdleehi]

So here was the 911 on the trade:

First I'm surprised no one mentioned that after our very brief spat the other day that j.r. and I could hug and makeup and come up with the blockbuster deal of the late round deals. Just goes to show that we have to realize that although we are playing in a competitive game, we are still all a part of the same Green-loving brotherhood and should always remember that. In that regard, love and TP's go out to Gomesfan as well as j.r.

Second, as I mentioned yesterday, I think there will definitely be a LeBron vote bias when it comes to the open vote. being in the same division I had two options, Future Team or build to beat Lebron. I tried the Future Team route and because of a couple of really bad trades starting off the trade season, I was left with three great pieces, one good piece and very little else. I wasn't winning Future Team.

So, I switched gears and decided to keep the best defensive player and best all around and experienced player of my "Big Three" and trade the rest for a defensive minded team that could still score and would be built around smothering team defense and wings that could shut leBron down so I could win the division.

So here's the team

Starting Team:

Center: Joel Przybilla - he leaves something to be desired offensively but defensively he is a very good, very big inside presence and a good shot blocker. My last line of defense.

Power Forward: Luis Scola - an international star and a defensive, hustling, intelligent player that fills what was easily my previous squad's biggest weakness. In a small ball running lineup, he is an awesome 5 as evidenced by last year's playoff run covering for an injured Yao.

Small Forward: Gerald Wallace - a tremendous defensive SF that has a solid offensive game and is great in transition

Shooting Guard: Stephen Jackson - a third straight athletic, defensive minded SG that can easily flow into a SF game due to his size(6-8) and length. The leader of this club and it's captain, he is one of the extremely very few players in the league to have 20+ PPG, 5+ RPG and 6+ APG.

Point Guard: Raymond Felton - fast, tough, good defender on PGs his size who can run an offense and run the break. He is a lot better and puts up better numbers than most people realize. Good all-around PG that has to work on his shooting.

Sixth Man: Travis Outlaw - who will be used much the same way James Posey was for the 2008 Champion Celtics he is very good defensively, a good rebounder for his position and can score. He has the ability to guard agile PFs and all SFs. He and Jackson and Wallace will drive LeBron nuts as he will never see a moment where he has someone who isn't a plus defender at that position on him.

Back Up Big: Darko Milicic - Darko will be used as the first big off the bench and is versatile enough to guard both centers and power forwards. I'm expecting rebounding and shot blocking from Darko. Any offense will be a plus.

Backup Backcourt: George Hill and Wally Szczerbiak - Hill is a great prospect that showed unbelievable maturity last year in Tony Parker's absence and could be a starter in a year or two. He's that good a prospect. Wally is the savvy vet that gives this team the 3 point threat it needs off the bench.

Others:

Aaron Gray - huge, young center with a knack for establishing good position and being able to convert his down low moves. He is a slow, poor defender.

James Singleton - Long power forward who is young and developing and will give this team solid production when used.

Tyronne Lue - bench warming vet minimum PG that gives the team options

Anthony Carter 3rd PG that gives a good strong veteran presence and is a good passer.

I think in both trades I made I gave up the best talented player but I think the depth and quality of the parts I brought in and kept makes the overall team stronger and gives me one of the better defensive teams not only in the East but maybe the league.

Who is the "go to guy" in the half court?

Enough with go to guys!!!

Why?  He doesn't have anyone at the level of KG in the half court.  And playoff basketball has a lot to do with the half court.

At least this way, he has time to think of an answer or make another move.


(by the way, when are you going to get a SG?)

First Stephen Jackson is a SG and played the SG for years alongside Artest.

Second Scola scores 14 PPG, Jackson 20 PPG, Felton 14 PPG, Wallace 11 PPG, and Outlaw 13 PPG. Five scorers between 13 and 20 PPG. I don't necessarily need a go to scorer if I have balance which I do. Depending on matchups my team can run plays for any one of 4 different players that can score. I don't necessarily need one go-to guy.

The SG question wasn't for you.

Those are nice numbers, but the majority of it comes off of the full court offense or being set up by better offensive players.  You will have no issues during the regular season.

But come playoff time, are you really comfortable with the half court offense lead by Jackson?  

This exchange?  Does this qualify saying "you will be in the playoffs"?  

And since that point, nothing has changed in terms of rosters?

[Rondo2287]

Explain to me how Miami would beat my team in a game DL.  This is absolutely absurd, and everybody on  this blog knows it is. 

[dark_lord]

Explain to me how Miami would beat my team in a game DL.  This is absolutely absurd, and everybody on  this blog knows it is. 

i already did what was asked of me...why i voted toronto so low.  i voted, i validated it, all within the rules.

[Rondo2287]

And you cant answer how Miami is better than me, which proves the vote is an absolute fraud.  I dont know why you take your time just to put other people down.  It is an absolute bully tactic and in my opinion really bush league. 

[dark_lord]

And you cant answer how Miami is better than me, which proves the vote is an absolute fraud.  I dont know why you take your time just to put other people down.  It is an absolute bully tactic and in my opinion really bush league. 

i dont have time to run down every single team and break down what would happen in each game.  bc u wont like my miami answer, so u will then move to charlotte, etc, etc. 

sorry u dont like my vote

[Rondo2287]

And you still can't answer the question.  Can we get a ruling on this.  We all know this vote is a joke.  Can we just make it official so i can go to bed?