Author Topic: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future  (Read 672072 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #885 on: August 01, 2009, 05:47:00 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
So whats everyone think of this roster:
PG:Blake/Flynn/Hudson
SG:Roy/Mo Pete/Sam Young/Weems
SF:Hedo/Young/Mo Pete/Weems
PF:Murphy/Dante Cunnigham/cook/ 
C:Thabeet/Marks/Cunnigham/Murphy

The trade you made addressed a lot of what I didn't like about your team. I think the pacific just got tougher.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #886 on: August 01, 2009, 06:56:14 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
Come playoff time we might need call upon our big 4 to log more minutes, but they're all young and healthy (not 30+ players like the recent Celtics or the Nats). We will be fine.

Young and healthy?  Martin missed 31 games last season, and 21 games the season before that.  Since 2005, Pau Gasol (age 29 next season) has had seasons where he has missed 26, 23, and 16 games.  Al Horford missed 15 games last season.  Raja Bell is 33 years old, and missed 15 games last year.

Only Chris Paul among the starters on your team is both young and healthy.
Should the owners of the Portland CrotoNats being tearing down other teams health situations with players like Shaq, Jermaine, Manu, and Redd figuring so prominently into their rotation? Maybe this particular criticism of another team is best left alone by the CrotoNats owners lest it come back to bite them in the butt come voting time.

Everyone already holds our health against us, regardless of how healthy the player was last year.  It's the big myth in our draft; it seems as though Portland is the only team dealing with injuries.

That being the case, we're absolutely going to point out when other teams have similar rosters to us in terms of their injury situations.  It's not unusual at all for players to have serious injuries, and bounce back from them just fine.  That's Portland's stance, and I would assume it's Chicago's, too, Phoenix's, and any other team that is relying upon a previously injured star, as well.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #887 on: August 01, 2009, 07:02:59 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
I've been reading all the health reports, keeping posted on offseason progress...I think BIg Al will be 100% healthy by the time camp opens, but he'll probably spend the preseason and s few weeks of the regular season playing himself into game shape.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #888 on: August 01, 2009, 07:05:10 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
I've been reading all the health reports, keeping posted on offseason progress...I think BIg Al will be 100% healthy by the time camp opens, but he'll probably spend the preseason and s few weeks of the regular season playing himself into game shape.

So since they're both coming off injuries... Robert Swift for Big Al? What do you say Danny?

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #889 on: August 01, 2009, 07:14:29 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
I've been reading all the health reports, keeping posted on offseason progress...I think BIg Al will be 100% healthy by the time camp opens, but he'll probably spend the preseason and s few weeks of the regular season playing himself into game shape.

So since they're both coming off injuries... Robert Swift for Big Al? What do you say Danny?

We have a commissioner for a reason. You think he'd approve that trade? Come on. If all I gave up was Big Al for Robert Swift he'd kick me out of the league for scamming you. I'd offer Rajon Rondo as well, but I don't want to insult you.

I guess I will just have to let Robert Swift pass me by, as two ships pass, in the night.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #890 on: August 01, 2009, 07:14:44 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
I've been reading all the health reports, keeping posted on offseason progress...I think BIg Al will be 100% healthy by the time camp opens, but he'll probably spend the preseason and s few weeks of the regular season playing himself into game shape.

Right, and after that, all any of us can do is hope for the best.  It's impossible to predict whether Big Al will be healthy -- his track record isn't great -- but in all honesty, that's not going to be a deciding factor for me.  Yes, injuries may play into my analysis a bit, but it won't be a major one.

(And the same thing is true with Chicago, although injuries become a bit more relevant, since the bench is weak, at least in its current state.)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #891 on: August 01, 2009, 07:27:23 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
I've been reading all the health reports, keeping posted on offseason progress...I think BIg Al will be 100% healthy by the time camp opens, but he'll probably spend the preseason and s few weeks of the regular season playing himself into game shape.

Right, and after that, all any of us can do is hope for the best.  It's impossible to predict whether Big Al will be healthy -- his track record isn't great -- but in all honesty, that's not going to be a deciding factor for me.  Yes, injuries may play into my analysis a bit, but it won't be a major one.

(And the same thing is true with Chicago, although injuries become a bit more relevant, since the bench is weak, at least in its current state.)

I would argue that injuries are more relevant for Portland because the majority of their team are injured players. if only 3 get injured, consider them lucky. If everyone stays healthy, consider it a miracle and Portland may make the WCF Bulls can deal with an injury b/c they have three stars better than any of Portland's players. Bulls bench will be fine, b/c one of the Bulls stars will always be in the game.

Bulls guards are better than Portland's guards by miles.

Bulls big men are better than Portland's big men.

Rashard was a solid 3rd banana for Orlando last year and we concede is better than Raja.

We also concede that the two times we play Portland, that when we're up by 30 going into the 4th, that Portland's depth will cut the lead down to 20 by games end. Portland's 8-12 will dominate during garbage time.

Portland is the spoiler. They just try to instigate. They are not true contenders. Not without a star, not with that backcourt or their starting bigs or their injuries.

Teams the Bulls are watching are what orlando does with Lebron.
Or the Braves with Howard. Right now I also like Seattle and Houston over Portland out West. Maybe the Kings too if they get a backup big. Portland is the NEW YORK Knicks of this league. All the media won't build you a winner. And obviously Portland doesn't have anyone as good as Ewing was either.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #892 on: August 01, 2009, 07:30:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Come playoff time we might need call upon our big 4 to log more minutes, but they're all young and healthy (not 30+ players like the recent Celtics or the Nats). We will be fine.

Young and healthy?  Martin missed 31 games last season, and 21 games the season before that.  Since 2005, Pau Gasol (age 29 next season) has had seasons where he has missed 26, 23, and 16 games.  Al Horford missed 15 games last season.  Raja Bell is 33 years old, and missed 15 games last year.

Only Chris Paul among the starters on your team is both young and healthy.
Should the owners of the Portland CrotoNats being tearing down other teams health situations with players like Shaq, Jermaine, Manu, and Redd figuring so prominently into their rotation? Maybe this particular criticism of another team is best left alone by the CrotoNats owners lest it come back to bite them in the butt come voting time.

Everyone already holds our health against us, regardless of how healthy the player was last year.  It's the big myth in our draft; it seems as though Portland is the only team dealing with injuries.

That being the case, we're absolutely going to point out when other teams have similar rosters to us in terms of their injury situations.  It's not unusual at all for players to have serious injuries, and bounce back from them just fine.  That's Portland's stance, and I would assume it's Chicago's, too, Phoenix's, and any other team that is relying upon a previously injured star, as well.
So let me see if I have this right. The stance in Portland is that injuries from the past shouldn't matter because players are more than capable of bouncing back the next year, as has been proven very often. It's a logical stance.

But if you feel that injuries shouldn't be held against a player and team as a weakness, why are you pointing out that another team has players that were injured and saying that it is a weakness when you don't feel it is a weakness?

Kind of ironic and maybe a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

Wouldn't it give more credence to your belief and give other voters and GMs the idea that you actually believe what you are saying in defense of your own players if you actually defended another team the very same way you defend your team against those accusations rather than pointing them out? Since you honestly don't believe in what you say because you are willing to critique another team's players in that manner I think in my eyes, it lowers my opinion of your team because it makes me feel like you have no conviction in the defense of your team.

By the way, I love your team and think it is by far the deepest 1-12 in the league and I too think the whole injury accusation is hogwash unless you can give proof in numbers and reports that the injury is chronic and has over a period of years cost a player time off the court and quality in their game. Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Danny Manning come to mind just off the top of my head of players that fit this bill. I think Redd and Manu and Al Jefferson and KG will bounce right back because it's a one time injury, much like Pierce's was in 2007. That injury didn't effect his 2008 season.

Now if you want to talk possible game deterioration as a critique for your team, like I think I see in some of your players, I don't think that's an unfair criticism. Injury bounce back criticism I think is a bit unfair unless you know like Leon and Yao that they will be out for a major portion of the next season.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #893 on: August 01, 2009, 07:35:36 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
Can we have a voting for best 8-12?  Or best team if it was 2003?  I think that would halt the Portland "Flip flop misinformation hype" Machine some and we could all concede they win those two categories.
Years ago...
Shaq was great on the Lakers
Jermaine was very good on the Pacers
Bibby was very good on the Kings
Miller was also very good on the Kings
Manu used to be healthy
Redd used to be healthy, but has he ever accomplished anything? He scores. So did Tione

Has any team ever won by taking one team's 3rd banana (Rashard Lewis) and surrounding him with old timers and injuries and egos? It's like the Yankees when they stunk, but had all these high priced FA's past their prime.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #894 on: August 01, 2009, 07:45:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Can we have a voting for best 8-12?  Or best team if it was 2003?  I think that would halt the Portland "Flip flop misinformation hype" Machine some and we could all concede they win those two categories.
Years ago...
Shaq was great on the Lakers
Jermaine was very good on the Pacers
Bibby was very good on the Kings
Miller was also very good on the Kings
Manu used to be healthy
Redd used to be healthy, but has he ever accomplished anything? He scores. So did Tione

Has any team ever won by taking one team's 3rd banana (Rashard Lewis) and surrounding him with old timers and injuries and egos? It's like the Yankees when they stunk, but had all these high priced FA's past their prime.
Past their prime...I think that is the key criticism to Roy's team, not so much injury. I think Shaq had his late in his career bounce back season last year. Countless number of greats in all types of sports have them. I think last year was Shaq's and he is going to return to the steady 5 year decline in production and play that we saw before last season. I think Bibby is similar though I think he isn't nearly as far along in his decline from his prime as Shaq is. Redd I think could bounce back very strong next year, especially since he's young and he's either in a contract year or will be entering soon. Those contract years have a funny way of being huge years for players that are on bad teams.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #895 on: August 01, 2009, 07:50:59 PM »

Offline BandwagonFan

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 25
  • Tommy Points: 15
Everyone already holds our health against us, regardless of how healthy the player was last year.  It's the big myth in our draft; it seems as though Portland is the only team dealing with injuries.

Well, you've got four to six major players with injury concerns, as opposed to many other contenders with only one or two. You're 100% right in questioning why other teams aren't having the injury question come up more frequently, but it's not a surprise that it's coming up a lot more often with your team. Let's not forget that many of the players you drafted were only still available specifically because of injury concerns.

That said, I also think the strength of your team is playing a factor here. People are looking for flaws, and injuries seem to be one of the only ones for the Blazers right now.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #896 on: August 01, 2009, 07:56:04 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
Bulls rough draft:

PG Chris Paul 38mpg (his normal average. Looked it up) J-Will 10mpg

SG Kevin Martin 38mpg (his normal average. Looked it up) Raja Bell 10mpg

SF Raja Bell 24mpg (averaged 34 last year) 20mpg between Johnson, Buddinger, Cardinal and Anderson

PF Pau Gasol 38mpg (his normal average. Looked it up) Ryan Anderson 10mpg

C Al Horford 34mpg (his normal average. Looked it up) Ryan Anderson and Hilton Armstrong cover the extra 14 mpg.


No one plays more minutes than they're used to. Our only weakness in backup SF if all the rookies fail. There is no 5 man second unit. Couple stars in at all times.

Expect minutes to be even less than their normal averages for the stars due to all the blowouts.

Bulls will be a running team in the mold of the Suns team that could have won a title if not for the suspensions, except Chris Paul is 10 times the defender as Nash was.


Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #897 on: August 01, 2009, 08:08:44 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
I really believe that the Bulls big three will not have to play as many minutes as they have in the past due to all the blowouts. The Kings need Martin on the court at all times. Bulls can let him rest. Hornets are nothing without Chris Paul. we still have Martin and Gasol to go to if he needs a blow. Compare the Hornets team that CP3 led to the WCF with this Bulls team. No contest. Martin is worlds better than their sg. Raja is a better than peja. Gasol is better than West. Horford (playing with Paul) is better than Chandler (playing with Paul). Chris Paul will love playing with stars.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #898 on: August 01, 2009, 08:12:27 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245
The Big three






Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Roster Analysis Thread
« Reply #899 on: August 01, 2009, 08:17:26 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4038
  • Tommy Points: 1245











we all can have hype machines