Spears-Twitter: DETstill interested in BBD S&T

[Fafnir]

BABY>>> maxiel

And it's not very close to be honest. 

And Kwame Brown isn't any good either and dumb as box of rocks like previously mentioned. 

Watch some games and stop being a slave to stats.

What makes you think I don't watch a ton of NBA games? Or the other poster who talked about Kwame Brown?

I suppose you think Darko isn't an NBA rotation player either.

[KingChre]

I'd probably trade Davis for Brown. You cannot teach size. We would have one of the biggest and most dynamic front courts in the league.

I'd then go ahead and throw the LLE at Joey Graham, Rashad McCants, and Flip Murray, in the hopes that one of them bites, and hopefully that one being Flip. But, in all honesty, any one of those guys would be solid.

House
Flip, Graham, McCants
Daniels
Wallace
Brown

You do know that Kwame Brown is a KNOWN BUST, right?

He's a bust when you factor in where he was picked; that doesn't mean he cannot be a useful big man, though. For his career he averages double digits in points and nearly rebounds. Big Baby probably won't be that successful. At this point, we know who Kwame is. He's not going to be the next Wilt, and that's fine. He's just a big man, a body, a frame to knock some heads in the paint, which is enough for me, even when you factor in his less than stellar work ethic.

And of course by double digits in points and nearly rebounds, you mean his career averages of 7 points a game and 5.6 rebounds?

[Lucky17]

Only two players of interest to me on Detroit's roster (that are attainable) are Bynum and Maxiell.

Maxiel is not good.  Never improved since his rookie year. 

What? The 2007-08 season was his best year. He averaged 8 and 5 in less than 22 minutes.

Last year was a disappointment, largely because Michael Curry couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. Detroit fans were absolutely at a loss as to why Maxiell wasn't getting more PT.

I understand this is a Celtics basketball site, so people are going to want our guy over the other teams' guys. But I've watched well over half of the Pistons games for the last several seasons (since my SO is a Pistons fan), and I don't get the hate for Maxiell here.

We just lost Leon Powe, whom everyone here loved. Maxiell is the closest thing out there to Powe. Why people think he's worthless is just beyond me.

[Fafnir]

I'd probably trade Davis for Brown. You cannot teach size. We would have one of the biggest and most dynamic front courts in the league.

I'd then go ahead and throw the LLE at Joey Graham, Rashad McCants, and Flip Murray, in the hopes that one of them bites, and hopefully that one being Flip. But, in all honesty, any one of those guys would be solid.

House
Flip, Graham, McCants
Daniels
Wallace
Brown

You do know that Kwame Brown is a KNOWN BUST, right?

He's a bust when you factor in where he was picked; that doesn't mean he cannot be a useful big man, though. For his career he averages double digits in points and nearly rebounds. Big Baby probably won't be that successful. At this point, we know who Kwame is. He's not going to be the next Wilt, and that's fine. He's just a big man, a body, a frame to knock some heads in the paint, which is enough for me, even when you factor in his less than stellar work ethic.

And of course by double digits in points and nearly rebounds, you mean his career averages of 7 points a game and 5.6 rebounds?

His per36 numbers are a bit better at 11.1 points and 8.8 rebounds a game. His rebound rate his 14, Perkins is 16. So no he's not really a double double guy no matter how you look at it, but he's not awful at rebounding.

[Roy Hobbs]

Labeling other posters, or their arguments, with terms such as "idiotic" is not permitted.  People should be respectful of others at all times.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Fafnir, I'm in agreement with you on pretty much everything you've posted. 

Also, TP for you Lucky17.  Great to see someone who watched a lot of the Pistons games give a fresh perspective.  I've tried to balance out against those who have the green-tinted-glasses for BBD, which is why I think a sign and trade involving either Maxiel or Brown wouldn't be such a bad thing.  I'm not saying its a sure-fire improvement, but I'm certainly open to it. 

IMO Scal is the more valuable backup at PF/C than BBD, at least right now (probably not so in 2 yrs or so).  That said, I'd want my next big off the bench to be a banger under the boards.  BBD does not fit this mold, and if we have a chance to get another guy who is a good rebounder and presence under the hoop, while avoiding the possibility of overpaying for BBD, then I'm all for it.

Keep up the diligent work Danny.  Glad to see you're not vacationing this summer like you did all of last summer

[greg_kite]

I don't get why people think Maxiell is terrible.  It's actually about an even swap, just different skill sets.  Maxiell is a much better shot blocker than BBD.  He had one of the best blocks I've ever seen on KG's breakaway dunk in the 2008 playoffs.  If we lose BBD he'd be a good replacement.  Doc loves having shot blockers.

Doing a sign and trade with BBD is nearly impossible with his base year compensation though, so it's sort of a waste of time discussing it anyway.

[Cman]

Trading Davis for Maxiell is an interesting idea.
Cs would need something else back, though, because Maxiell is overpaid (given that BBD's true going rate is about $3.5M, I think Maxiell's should be similar).  A protected 1st is probably too much to ask though... how are DaJuan Summers and Chase Budinger doing in summer league?

[kozlodoev]

Trading Davis for Maxiell is an interesting idea.
Cs would need something else back, though, because Maxiell is overpaid (given that BBD's true going rate is about $3.5M, I think Maxiell's should be similar).  A protected 1st is probably too much to ask though... how are DaJuan Summers and Chase Budinger doing in summer league?

Why would we want to do this, when we can just match and keep Davis, who's the better player anyhow.

[LooseCannon]

Since Big Baby is a BYP, we can only count half of the amount in a sign and trade, correct?

Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ addresses this.

The basic problem is that both teams have to balance incoming and outgoing salary within a certain level of tolerance, but base year compensation means that the player's salary as used in the math is different for both teams in evaluating the trade.

Here's the example from the FAQ:

When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC. Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million. Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary). If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary. So each team can take back a maximum of 125% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $6.35 million. They compare $6.35 million to the other player's full $10 million. $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.

Proposed sign-and-trades fall through because interested teams can't find any players with the appropriate sized contracts to make it work.  I haven't done the math to prove it rigorously, but I believe that you usually need to send out additional salaries that total much more than what the base-year player will be making in order to trade a BYC player if both teams are over the cap.  The solution to the problem is usually to find a third team with cap room to facilitate the trade and give them things like draft picks and cash compensation to make it worth their while.

[Jon]

I just don't get why we even get involved in this.  Does Detroit really want a third wannabe big man in Davis (Maxiell is undersized and Villanueva plays like he's 6-4)?  I don't think so.  So I wouldn't count on them to make Davis much of an offer.  If that's the case, we should just hold out on him, let the market dry up, and get him cheap. 

I think most teams are realizing what most of us already know: Davis isn't good enough to start on a contending team.

[Cman]

Trading Davis for Maxiell is an interesting idea.
Cs would need something else back, though, because Maxiell is overpaid (given that BBD's true going rate is about $3.5M, I think Maxiell's should be similar).  A protected 1st is probably too much to ask though... how are DaJuan Summers and Chase Budinger doing in summer league?

Why would we want to do this, when we can just match and keep Davis, who's the better player anyhow.

I prefer BBD.  I was just running with the flow of prior posts about a swap of BBD and Maxiel; I guess my basic point being that BBD>Maxiel (especially given Maxiel's contract).

But yeah, I prefer BBD.

[jdpapa3]

At what point will it look like he will just play for the qualifying offer? Teams with capspace/exceptions/interested in Glen are drying up. This could be pretty good news for us. Nothing guarantees a guy will be a good soldier and stay in good shape like a contract year, and a guy who feels like he was dissed by every team in the league.

[Dirk]

Here's the latest Spears' story on Big Baby:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhEsdNG2RcZiBBBqEENamXK8vLYF?slug=mc-davisnets072009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The New Jersey Nets are among the teams who have expressed interest in Boston Celtics restricted free-agent forward Glen Davis(notes), a league source said Monday.

The Nets still have their $5.8 million mid-level exception to spend as they search through their options from a pool of free-agent power forwards that also includes Lamar Odom(notes) and Drew Gooden(notes). The Nets also are interested in Carlos Boozer(notes), whom the Utah Jazz are trying to trade.

The Celtics have said they would match any reasonable offer for Davis. The Detroit Pistons, New Orleans Hornets and Portland Trail Blazers, league sources said, tried to work a sign-and-trade deal for Davis only to be rebuffed by the Celtics. Boston did offer Davis and guards J.R. Giddens(notes) and Gabe Pruitt(notes) to the Pistons for forward Jason Maxiell(notes) and a first-round pick, but was quickly turned down.

Did we really offer Baby, JR and Pruitt for Maxiell and Detroit said no? Personally I prefer having BBD playing for us, though Maxiell is not a bad player. But as other people mentioned, he has too high of a salary (5M per year for 4 years). I know there's the benefit of keeping the LLE while doing a s&t with Baby, but... I find my self undecided with that trade.

Thoughts? Spears also mentiond NO and Portland as teams that offered trades for big baby, so I wonder what players names where tossed around on those conversations. Dare I say ... Posey? CP3?  Seriously though, I wonder what players where offered by those teams for our Big Baby.

[P2]

I know there's the benefit of keeping the LLE while doing a s&t with Baby

If we sign Big Baby, we also keep the LLE. If we match an offer for Big Baby, we also keep the LLE. Regardless what we do with Big Baby, we keep the LLE. So there is no such benefit. You're probably thinking of the Daniels S/T deal.