Official:-Spears Confirms Marquis coming to Boston (merged)

[meesho33]

because it isn't true that he's been solid when healthy, people have brought out mountains of evidence, both statistical and just commenting on his play, and yet we're still always told that

"once he's fully healthy, you'll see. you just don't like him"

which isn't true. i don't know TA personal, i have no reason to dislike him. but if your asking me to put on some sort of facade that he's a competent basketball player because the front of his jersey says "Celtics" your out of luck with me.

TA is what he is. a train wreck of a basketball player who is/was very athletic, and thus can at times finish at the rim for you and keep a man in front of him.

However, he has zero basketball IQ, which leads to his astronomical turnover rate, both per minute played and when averaged out over 48. He can't shoot, from mid range or otherwise, which hurts his offense. He has the worst handles of any guard on the team. He makes silly fouls an art form, his specialty being fouling the three point shooter late after recovering off a screen. He can't pas, because he keeps his head down when he dribbles in traffic (product of his bad handle)

Tony is a good athlete, but a bad basketball player. Marquis is a huge upgrade over him as the backup 2 and 3 for the simple reason that i know marquis has a basketball IQ, can pass, and can shoot the midrange as well as finsh at the rim.

That's not to say that marquis is some huge talent were getting, but he is far better than tony allen.

Alot of guys in the NBA have freakish athletic skills. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

Guys like marquis, who may not be stars, but know thier role and accept it, are not. He'll be a fine backup 3, and hopefully TA will either be relegated to the end of the bench or gone in part of the deal.

As to walker, my point was, what did you see in his limited minutes that led to your staunch defense of him? you all but agreed he impressed you with his athleticism and little else.
That's all i was saying on the subject. He may turn out to be a gem, he may turn out to be TA 2.0, i don't know or care.

What i do know is daniels solves a need this team has in a short window. If getting him takes JR or walker, fine. IF it doesn't, even better. But the potential of either player, both of whom couldn't crack the rotation last year, is a foolish thing to hang this deal up on.

lol, dude you passion on the topic almost had me!!! but, it would have done the trick if you gave him some credit for his game (and again, please don't attribute others quotes to me). its not all negative with TA...it just isn't.

but i do agree with your bbiq point, i really hadn't thought of that when comparing the two. i will give you this, i'd rather have daniels than TA, my point was more that we were over paying for daniels in that proposed trade.

also, "He may turn out to be a gem, he may turn out to be TA 2.0, i don't know or care."

with 6200+ posts, i'd say you do

[crownsy]

because it isn't true that he's been solid when healthy, people have brought out mountains of evidence, both statistical and just commenting on his play, and yet we're still always told that

"once he's fully healthy, you'll see. you just don't like him"

which isn't true. i don't know TA personal, i have no reason to dislike him. but if your asking me to put on some sort of facade that he's a competent basketball player because the front of his jersey says "Celtics" your out of luck with me.

TA is what he is. a train wreck of a basketball player who is/was very athletic, and thus can at times finish at the rim for you and keep a man in front of him.

However, he has zero basketball IQ, which leads to his astronomical turnover rate, both per minute played and when averaged out over 48. He can't shoot, from mid range or otherwise, which hurts his offense. He has the worst handles of any guard on the team. He makes silly fouls an art form, his specialty being fouling the three point shooter late after recovering off a screen. He can't pas, because he keeps his head down when he dribbles in traffic (product of his bad handle)

Tony is a good athlete, but a bad basketball player. Marquis is a huge upgrade over him as the backup 2 and 3 for the simple reason that i know marquis has a basketball IQ, can pass, and can shoot the midrange as well as finsh at the rim.

That's not to say that marquis is some huge talent were getting, but he is far better than tony allen.

Alot of guys in the NBA have freakish athletic skills. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

Guys like marquis, who may not be stars, but know thier role and accept it, are not. He'll be a fine backup 3, and hopefully TA will either be relegated to the end of the bench or gone in part of the deal.

As to walker, my point was, what did you see in his limited minutes that led to your staunch defense of him? you all but agreed he impressed you with his athleticism and little else.
That's all i was saying on the subject. He may turn out to be a gem, he may turn out to be TA 2.0, i don't know or care.

What i do know is daniels solves a need this team has in a short window. If getting him takes JR or walker, fine. IF it doesn't, even better. But the potential of either player, both of whom couldn't crack the rotation last year, is a foolish thing to hang this deal up on.

lol, dude you passion on the topic almost had me!!! but, it would have done the trick if you gave him some credit for his game (and again, please don't attribute others quotes to me). its not all negative with TA...it just isn't.

but i do agree with your bbiq point, i really hadn't thought of that when comparing the two. i will give you this, i'd rather have daniels than TA, my point was more that we were over paying for daniels in that proposed trade.

also, "He may turn out to be a gem, he may turn out to be TA 2.0, i don't know or care."

with 6200+ posts, i'd say you do

nah, most of my posts are goofy stuff or in game threads and things, their are far better player evaluators than me, believe me

If i had my way, we would have held onto telfair, i was convinced you couldn't get by with a guard who couldn't shoot and can't sink a FT as your PG.

I, quite happily, got rondo'd   

[LarBrd33]

Maybe I missed it but... why hasn't this become official?  What's the holdup? 

[celticinorlando]

this deal every going to be legit? maybe danny is waiting on baby but this is taking forever

[byennie]

mind naming the guards who are worse than him and are expected to contribute meaningful minutes on a contender?

It's funny, I don't even think he's good. But you keep changing the premise of the thread. You said he's a train wreck. There's a little room between "train wreck" and a meaningful player on a contender. Namely, about half the league.

I don't have a guard picked out for you, but I do have a name that is pretty darn similar. Perk. Top of the league in offensive fouls. Top of the league in illegal defense. High turnover rate. Can't shoot from outside 5 feet or from the free throw line.

It's not a perfect analogy, it's just an example of player who is obviously productive for a contender, yet has major flaws in turnovers and fouls.

i disagree with pretty much all of that, and don't get me started on per, but even setting that aside, as you note, the injury was two years ago. When is tony going to have this mythical "healthy" season? when he's 29? 30?

PER is utterly stupid for a lot of purposes. But it's not useless if you take it for what it is: a quick glance measure of a player's production. Are shooting percentage, steals, blocks, and rebounds stupid stats too? Also it's pretty unanimous that overall Tony is a good defender, which is obviously a plus relative to PER which has no defensive component.

As of the mythical healthy season, the PREMISE of this thread is what kind of player he is "when healthy". Obviously he was healthy before the injury. All of his stats and scouting reports indicate that he was a good overall player at that time, except you seem to know better based on his high turnovers and bonehead plays. I guess Chris Webber was a terrible college player too? I mean, that timeout was costly.

I offered the TA supporters that i would wipe the slate clean and only judge him on last year alone, since they assured me now that he was completely healthy, he was going to be mid season 2006 TA again off the bench and blow my socks off. He failed utterly at it,  before re injuring himself.

I'm not a "TA supporter" I just think you exaggerate a lot to get the point across that you don't like him. If you don't like him, and don't think he should be in the Celtics' rotation, he must be the worst player in the league.

Yet now im told last season doesn't count either, by some here, due to anything from injury to rivers playing him out of position, to whatever else you want to name as his excuse.

TA has more get out of jail free cards than any bad bench player ive ever seen with some corners of the celtics fan base, and i cant for the life of me figure out why.

Maybe Tony never gets healthy again. But he got injured in January of 2007. He returned too early, in 9 months. Major ACL surgery quite normally takes a full 2 years to return to 100%, usually a full year before resuming play. So I guess that's a "get out of jail free" card? It's hardly unthinkable that 2 years after a major ACL injury, a role player would play down to a lower level. It's not like he was Michael Jordan before, so yes he needs to be at 100%.

Tony Allen might never be a productive player again, true. But rewriting history like he was always a train wreck is a bit much.


You're entitled to your opinion, it's just a bit overstated for effect...

[P2]

Maybe I missed it but... why hasn't this become official?  What's the holdup? 

Probably Indiana being morons with their trade offers, something like Rondo for Daniels or so. No, seriously, I think they're being smartasses and try to rip us off on that trade, but Danny doesn't bite, but still he wants to do a S/T to sign Daniels to multiple years.

And I have seriously no clue when this will become official. Maybe in some weeks?! Just get it over with!

[Chris]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

[timepiece33]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

Agree though Allen and Walker for Daniels should get it done.

[Chris]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

Agree though Allen and Walker for Daniels should get it done.

Why?  If you were Indiana, and were not absolutely sold on Walker, why would you agree to a deal like that, knowing it may put you even closer to, if not over the luxury tax. 

Now, if they love Walker, then it makes sense, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

[xmuscularghandix]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

Agree though Allen and Walker for Daniels should get it done.

Why?  If you were Indiana, and were not absolutely sold on Walker, why would you agree to a deal like that, knowing it may put you even closer to, if not over the luxury tax. 

Now, if they love Walker, then it makes sense, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

Walker's money isn't guarunteed so doesn't it just add to the pot of expiring money?

[Chris]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

Agree though Allen and Walker for Daniels should get it done.

Why?  If you were Indiana, and were not absolutely sold on Walker, why would you agree to a deal like that, knowing it may put you even closer to, if not over the luxury tax. 

Now, if they love Walker, then it makes sense, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

Walker's money isn't guarunteed so doesn't it just add to the pot of expiring money?

So they are trading Daniels for Tony Allen?  Why not just let Daniels walk? 

[fairweatherfan06]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

I think so too, I hope the 3rd team is Sacramento and we can get Nocioni and Sergio Rodriguez, they get maybe Tinsley (Indy has been trying to move Tinsley since last year), but this is just wishful thinking but it is taking quite awhile something is amiss.....

[Fafnir]

The longer this goes without becoming official, the more I think there might be a third team (or more) involved, and they are trying to put together a bigger trade.  I don't think they would be quibbling this long over a simple sign and trade with such small pieces.  I think they are just trying to see if they can find something that benefits both teams even more. 

Agree though Allen and Walker for Daniels should get it done.

Why?  If you were Indiana, and were not absolutely sold on Walker, why would you agree to a deal like that, knowing it may put you even closer to, if not over the luxury tax. 

Now, if they love Walker, then it makes sense, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

Walker's money isn't guarunteed so doesn't it just add to the pot of expiring money?

So they are trading Daniels for Tony Allen?  Why not just let Daniels walk? 

If the Celtics send cash to cover his salary and something to make it worth the Pacers while that sort of trade can work.

[celticinorlando]

i think danny is the one holding it up to see about baby..he might need to do 2 sign and trades and might need to work that out