Powe or Davis?

[nickagneta]

I say cut POB and resign both. BBD is your backup 5 and so far he's done an admirable job at it. There really is no need to choose if POB is gone.

I agree with this. Their games are nothing a like they play together fairly well.  Although I think they can keep all 3 and see how POB does with another year of CELTIC training under his belt.

FYI for the Powefans Davis does more on the court to help the team win.  Powe better work on staying in front of his guy because the C's are defense first.  I love Powe as well but, this concept that it's so clear to some of you how much better Powe is to Davis is incorrect.

Powe is a better rebounder on offense and defense, and a much better scorer and paint player on offense. Baby is a better defender, and is developign a ncie jumper, which will help him catch up on offense as he develops it.

 also, Leon is not the sive some are pretending he is. Davis is a better defender, but to here some talk you would think powe is steve nash level.

In fairness to Big Baby the reason Powe gets some of the defensive rebounds that he does is because BBD does a fantastic job of box out the mostly much taller players he is playing against which gives the opportunity to Powe to clean the glass.

Also, I agree, Powe is a much better defender than some here are giving him credit for although I must say, recently, this end of his game has suffered a bit. But I still think he's a very good defender who uses a wide base stance tremendously and creates a lot of turnovers with quick hands and offensive foul he takes.

[xmuscularghandix]

the suns just offered me Matt Barnes and their 1st Round pick for POB. HIGH FIVE!

[billysan]

I also want to point out that even though Powe is a better rebounder, Davis does an exceptional job of maintaining inside position, and preventing his man from grabbing rebounds, even if he doesn't grab them himself.  In a lot of ways, he has become a mini-version of Perk, who has made a career of positional defense and rebounding.

LOL. OMG it is hard to imagine BBD as a mini version of anything. He is our best back up center in terms of maintaining positioning inside for sure. His energy and Defense are huge for us this year off the bench.

While I like Leon a lot, his game is more productive offensively IMO and his work in the post is more valuable than Davis' jumper regardless. Leon's defense is decent as long as he stays inside, he gets in trouble with perimeter oriented guys and complex rotations.

I say we keep them both next season and lose POB or Scal if we find something better to replace them on the FA market. Even with noticeable improvement this year, Scal is still expendable if we can find a nice big. POB is a still project and unless he becomes anything else, will also remain expendable.

Powe/Davis > POB/Scal anytime IMO, not to mention cheaper.

[Scalablob990]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

[nickagneta]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with this team and for all we know Powe may be having some really bad practices and missing rotational assignments on defense. Sometimes it's hard to pick up stuff like rotational assignments, boxing out, defensive positioning, or failure to make the correct passes in the offensive flow during a television telecast.

If Powe is playing less recently it is for a definitive reason. Doc is seeing something and Powe is experiencing something we know nothing about. As soon as it is corrected Powe will play more,I am sure of it.

It could be something simple like that over the past 10 games Baby has outplayed Leon and deserves more minutes, which honestly, and I am judging by quality of play not amount of minutes, he has been.

[Bankshot]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with this team and for all we know Powe may be having some really bad practices and missing rotational assignments on defense. Sometimes it's hard to pick up stuff like rotational assignments, boxing out, defensive positioning, or failure to make the correct passes in the offensive flow during a television telecast.

If Powe is playing less recently it is for a definitive reason. Doc is seeing something and Powe is experiencing something we know nothing about. As soon as it is corrected Powe will play more,I am sure of it.

It could be something simple like that over the past 10 games Baby has outplayed Leon and deserves more minutes, which honestly, and I am judging by quality of play not amount of minutes, he has been.

Powe really hasn't been that great lately.  It's like the league has figured him out. Baby has been playing better defense than Powe, imo, so I disagree with those who say Baby shouldn't be playing.  My guess is the defense is the reason Baby sometimes gets more minutes or is first off the bench.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I liked Tommy's comment about Powe last night, "he's playing too much for the contact". And it's somewhat true... Powe is making move that don't seem like the best way to get in position to score, but to try and draw fouls.

He rebounded the ball well last night though, which is always welcomed.

Davis' shot didn't look good last night, but they're giving it to him so he has to take it... go no problems with that. He has all season to work on it. It'll be a problem during the playoffs if it's not falling with good regularity, and he's still taking them constantly. So for now, I give him a pass for his missed jumpers as long as they are like they are now, in the flow of the offense and wide open.

[crownsy]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with this team and for all we know Powe may be having some really bad practices and missing rotational assignments on defense. Sometimes it's hard to pick up stuff like rotational assignments, boxing out, defensive positioning, or failure to make the correct passes in the offensive flow during a television telecast.

If Powe is playing less recently it is for a definitive reason. Doc is seeing something and Powe is experiencing something we know nothing about. As soon as it is corrected Powe will play more,I am sure of it.

It could be something simple like that over the past 10 games Baby has outplayed Leon and deserves more minutes, which honestly, and I am judging by quality of play not amount of minutes, he has been.

Powe really hasn't been that great lately.  It's like the league has figured him out. Baby has been playing better defense than Powe, imo, so I disagree with those who say Baby shouldn't be playing.  My guess is the defense is the reason Baby sometimes gets more minutes or is first off the bench.

the main reason is baby is the backup 5 and perk goes to the bench first alot.

As some have mentioned, they don't really touch each other this year in rotation. Baby has been doing a great job at the backup C spot for perk, and powe has doen well backing up KG.

neitehr is a 3, and were short on backups at the 4 and 5, so they can both get thier minutes this year without competing as much as the did last year.

Indeed, as some have said, the Leon/Baby on the floor at the same time look actually works very well in short spurts, i think because they play each other so much in practice that they know each others strengths and weaknesses.

[expobear]

The question is, who can you get more for in a trade.  Trade that guy, keep the other.  I think Cs can get more back if they trade Powe now.  I hate to do it, but I think it is the move to make.  I really like Powe (part of that is because I am a Cal guy like him) and him not being a C won't change that.  If there is any way for him to end up with Golden State or the Kings (so he is closer to family) then that would be great...

If any team is interested in Powe next yaar and gives him some decent money, I have to think Powe is gone.  Powe will never develop as a player as long as he is playing behind Garnett.  If he gets a decent offer, I doubt the Celtics will match.  Powe has a ring and perhaps another this year....he needs to find out whether he can play in the NBA.  Getting  10-15 minutes playing behind Garnett was more than Powe could have hoped for a couple of years ago.  Now, Powe has bigger and better aspirations and unfortunately, he won't find it playing for the best team in the NBA.

[crownsy]

The question is, who can you get more for in a trade.  Trade that guy, keep the other.  I think Cs can get more back if they trade Powe now.  I hate to do it, but I think it is the move to make.  I really like Powe (part of that is because I am a Cal guy like him) and him not being a C won't change that.  If there is any way for him to end up with Golden State or the Kings (so he is closer to family) then that would be great...

If any team is interested in Powe next yaar and gives him some decent money, I have to think Powe is gone.  Powe will never develop as a player as long as he is playing behind Garnett.  If he gets a decent offer, I doubt the Celtics will match.  Powe has a ring and perhaps another this year....he needs to find out whether he can play in the NBA.  Getting  10-15 minutes playing behind Garnett was more than Powe could have hoped for a couple of years ago.  Now, Powe has bigger and better aspirations and unfortunately, he won't find it playing for the best team in the NBA.

Why would the celtics not match a reasonable offer? I get your point about how it might be best for powe to move on, but if the celtics can keep leon, they will. Baby is not as dynamic as a 4, and they need him at the 5.

[nickagneta]

The question is, who can you get more for in a trade.  Trade that guy, keep the other.  I think Cs can get more back if they trade Powe now.  I hate to do it, but I think it is the move to make.  I really like Powe (part of that is because I am a Cal guy like him) and him not being a C won't change that.  If there is any way for him to end up with Golden State or the Kings (so he is closer to family) then that would be great...

If any team is interested in Powe next yaar and gives him some decent money, I have to think Powe is gone.  Powe will never develop as a player as long as he is playing behind Garnett.  If he gets a decent offer, I doubt the Celtics will match.  Powe has a ring and perhaps another this year....he needs to find out whether he can play in the NBA.  Getting  10-15 minutes playing behind Garnett was more than Powe could have hoped for a couple of years ago.  Now, Powe has bigger and better aspirations and unfortunately, he won't find it playing for the best team in the NBA.

Why would the celtics not match a reasonable offer? I get your point about how it might be best for powe to move on, but if the celtics can keep leon, they will. Baby is not as dynamic as a 4, and they need him at the 5.

I think Powe would get a reasonable offer but let's not get carried away here I doubt it would be for anything more than half the MLE if that. It will be very reasonable money and if Leon wants to stay on the east coast, he might give the Celtics a chance to match.

Then again, Leon starting alongside Biedrins in a wide open Golden State offense in his hometown might really appeal to Leon and Boston wouldn't have a chance to match. Never know.

[expobear]

The question is, who can you get more for in a trade.  Trade that guy, keep the other.  I think Cs can get more back if they trade Powe now.  I hate to do it, but I think it is the move to make.  I really like Powe (part of that is because I am a Cal guy like him) and him not being a C won't change that.  If there is any way for him to end up with Golden State or the Kings (so he is closer to family) then that would be great...

If any team is interested in Powe next yaar and gives him some decent money, I have to think Powe is gone.  Powe will never develop as a player as long as he is playing behind Garnett.  If he gets a decent offer, I doubt the Celtics will match.  Powe has a ring and perhaps another this year....he needs to find out whether he can play in the NBA.  Getting  10-15 minutes playing behind Garnett was more than Powe could have hoped for a couple of years ago.  Now, Powe has bigger and better aspirations and unfortunately, he won't find it playing for the best team in the NBA.

Why would the celtics not match a reasonable offer? I get your point about how it might be best for powe to move on, but if the celtics can keep leon, they will. Baby is not as dynamic as a 4, and they need him at the 5.

I think Powe would get a reasonable offer but let's not get carried away here I doubt it would be for anything more than half the MLE if that. It will be very reasonable money and if Leon wants to stay on the east coast, he might give the Celtics a chance to match.

Then again, Leon starting alongside Biedrins in a wide open Golden State offense in his hometown might really appeal to Leon and Boston wouldn't have a chance to match. Never know.

I like the idea of Powe playing with Biedrins in a wide open Golden State offense but I'm not sure Powe and Nelson would be a good match. 

[BillfromBoston]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with this team and for all we know Powe may be having some really bad practices and missing rotational assignments on defense. Sometimes it's hard to pick up stuff like rotational assignments, boxing out, defensive positioning, or failure to make the correct passes in the offensive flow during a television telecast.

If Powe is playing less recently it is for a definitive reason. Doc is seeing something and Powe is experiencing something we know nothing about. As soon as it is corrected Powe will play more,I am sure of it.

It could be something simple like that over the past 10 games Baby has outplayed Leon and deserves more minutes, which honestly, and I am judging by quality of play not amount of minutes, he has been.

I agree with the premise of not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, but its hard to fault Powe on the offensive end when the team is running almost zero pick and roll for him and he isn't getting any consistent amount of post touches...in the pre-season and early in the regular season Powe was involved in the offense quite a bit more than he is now - some of that is on him as he needs to be more vocal and aggressive when he sees a matchup he likes, but the team has to make the effort to set him up for easy baskets as well - too often the bench unit just sniffs out perimeter jumpers instead of establishing the post...

..as for the rest of his game, other than a few posessions against Orlando's Tony Battie, Powe's defense has been very solid...would like to see a bit more rebounding,  but  as far as scoring goes its hard to do that when you don't hardly ever touch the ball - Glen Davis jacks up a near-worthless jumper every chance he gets, Powe goes entire PT stretches without touching the ball in a scoring position, so some of the blame has to go on the unit on the floor not utilizing him much...

[crownsy]

The question is, who can you get more for in a trade.  Trade that guy, keep the other.  I think Cs can get more back if they trade Powe now.  I hate to do it, but I think it is the move to make.  I really like Powe (part of that is because I am a Cal guy like him) and him not being a C won't change that.  If there is any way for him to end up with Golden State or the Kings (so he is closer to family) then that would be great...

If any team is interested in Powe next yaar and gives him some decent money, I have to think Powe is gone.  Powe will never develop as a player as long as he is playing behind Garnett.  If he gets a decent offer, I doubt the Celtics will match.  Powe has a ring and perhaps another this year....he needs to find out whether he can play in the NBA.  Getting  10-15 minutes playing behind Garnett was more than Powe could have hoped for a couple of years ago.  Now, Powe has bigger and better aspirations and unfortunately, he won't find it playing for the best team in the NBA.

Why would the celtics not match a reasonable offer? I get your point about how it might be best for powe to move on, but if the celtics can keep leon, they will. Baby is not as dynamic as a 4, and they need him at the 5.

I think Powe would get a reasonable offer but let's not get carried away here I doubt it would be for anything more than half the MLE if that. It will be very reasonable money and if Leon wants to stay on the east coast, he might give the Celtics a chance to match.

Then again, Leon starting alongside Biedrins in a wide open Golden State offense in his hometown might really appeal to Leon and Boston wouldn't have a chance to match. Never know.

there's no choice for him next year, we get to match. if we do he stays. He's restricted.
(unless im confusing this with football. i thought if the incumbant team matched, they held onto the players rights.)


My point was that while going someplace and starting might be best for leon, danny will do whats best for the celtics, and if thats leon off the bench for another year, he'll match.

[Chris]

I'm getting tired of Doc playing blobabrine, and BBD, instead of Powe really annoys me. Leon had like what, an avg of 8 mins the last 3-4 games??? Doc should always seek to use the line up of Eddie-Ray-TA-Powe-Davis as much as he can since it almost always gives amazing results. Leave Scal on the bench he can't play D, he's slow, and he throws everyone else off. As for BBD, he just needs to learn how to take it in instead of jump shooting when we're down a few points thats the only beef I have with him.

We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with this team and for all we know Powe may be having some really bad practices and missing rotational assignments on defense. Sometimes it's hard to pick up stuff like rotational assignments, boxing out, defensive positioning, or failure to make the correct passes in the offensive flow during a television telecast.

If Powe is playing less recently it is for a definitive reason. Doc is seeing something and Powe is experiencing something we know nothing about. As soon as it is corrected Powe will play more,I am sure of it.

It could be something simple like that over the past 10 games Baby has outplayed Leon and deserves more minutes, which honestly, and I am judging by quality of play not amount of minutes, he has been.

I agree with the premise of not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, but its hard to fault Powe on the offensive end when the team is running almost zero pick and roll for him and he isn't getting any consistent amount of post touches...in the pre-season and early in the regular season Powe was involved in the offense quite a bit more than he is now - some of that is on him as he needs to be more vocal and aggressive when he sees a matchup he likes, but the team has to make the effort to set him up for easy baskets as well - too often the bench unit just sniffs out perimeter jumpers instead of establishing the post...

I just have a small quibble with your argument.  It is not that they aren't running any pick and rolls for them, it is that their second string PG is unable to run the pick and roll effectively with any sort of consistency.  And it is tough for them to get the ball in the post for him, when there is no one on the second team consistently breaking down the defense to create passing lanes, and create a retreating defense for him to attack. 

Lets face it, as good as Powe is, he (much like the vast majority of the big men in the NBA) need to play off of the guards to be successful offensively.  Until they get a real playmaker on the second unit, Powe is going to remain an up and down player, depending on how terrible the defense they are playing against is.