Celtics sign O'bryant

[RonJohn]

He's young,tall and long (wingspan wise). His knock has been maturity. Do I think he will be a solid contirbutor? Not at first. Do I think once he goes through Cliff Ray, Perk, and KG school he will "get it." Definitely.

I like the signing. He was cheap and it was worth a shot. Now, he has to want to work. I think being cut by the warriors after his second year may have been a wakeup call that this may be his last shot to actually do something in the league and will light a fire under his Heiny.

POB has admitted that he was immature and now needs to get his head on straight. I think the winning attitude and work ethic mentality of the club will straighten him out. If not, he will be on the fung wah to NYC!

[Mon]

Is there some long list of centers that Nellie hasn't used?

That he's ignored and discarded?

How about a list that have improved dramatically once they're out of his grasp?

No? ...... Then let's stop using Nellie as a scapegoat for O Bryant's lack of ability.

I believe Nelson was a factor...maybe even a big factor.

I also believe he had no idea what to expect when he got into the Association.  So that is on Patrick.  He has a golden opportunity now (Clifford, Doo, and KG)...he better step up.

That said...he is only 22 so if Jermaine O'Neal can get better after 5 years in the Association...

[Who]

Is there some long list of centers that Nellie hasn't used?

That he's ignored and discarded?

How about a list that have improved dramatically once they're out of his grasp?

No? ...... Then let's stop using Nellie as a scapegoat for O Bryant's lack of ability.

I believe Nelson was a factor...maybe even a big factor.

I'd like an example of a big man that Nellie has hurt please.

[winsomme]

Is there some long list of centers that Nellie hasn't used?

That he's ignored and discarded?

How about a list that have improved dramatically once they're out of his grasp?

No? ...... Then let's stop using Nellie as a scapegoat for O Bryant's lack of ability.

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

[P2]

Nelson doesn't use rookies. Take Wright and Belinelli as an example. I also doubt Randolph will get more than 10 MPG.

[Who]

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

The system theory is just as illogical. A big man who rebounds, blocks and defends is good in all time zones. That's why Biedrins is on the court. If Biedrins could actually defend the post well enough he'd be getting 35-40mpg.

Seriously, how about a list of centers that Nellie hasn't been able to use that have blossomed once they've left him? Guys that can't fit into his offensive system.

[Mon]

Is there some long list of centers that Nellie hasn't used?

That he's ignored and discarded?

How about a list that have improved dramatically once they're out of his grasp?

No? ...... Then let's stop using Nellie as a scapegoat for O Bryant's lack of ability.

I believe Nelson was a factor...maybe even a big factor.

I'd like an example of a big man that Nellie has hurt please.

Wright!

[Who]

Is there some long list of centers that Nellie hasn't used?

That he's ignored and discarded?

How about a list that have improved dramatically once they're out of his grasp?

No? ...... Then let's stop using Nellie as a scapegoat for O Bryant's lack of ability.

I believe Nelson was a factor...maybe even a big factor.

I'd like an example of a big man that Nellie has hurt please.

Wright!

How can you prove that?

Someone that has left Nellie and instantly done better please. Nellie has been a coach for a long time. There's a lot of bigs that have come and gone.

[winsomme]

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

The system theory is just as illogical. A big man who rebounds, blocks and defends is good in all time zones. That's why Biedrins is on the court. If Biedrins could actually defend the post well enough he'd be getting 35-40mpg.

Seriously, how about a list of centers that Nellie hasn't been able to use that have blossomed once they've left him? Guys that can't fit into his offensive system.

i'm not sure why that is the measuring stick.

as someone already pointed out, Biendrins is the perfect big man for the way GS is playing. how exactly does Biendrins playing tell you anything about POB. they are completely different types of palyers.

Nellie also runs a pretty short bench is not that enamored of playing "youngs". i have a good friend who is a huge GSW fan and he like Nellie a lot, but was frustrated at his unwillingness to play Wright and Belinelli and thought that the team was burnt out down the stretch because  of it....

[Who]

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

The system theory is just as illogical. A big man who rebounds, blocks and defends is good in all time zones. That's why Biedrins is on the court. If Biedrins could actually defend the post well enough he'd be getting 35-40mpg.

Seriously, how about a list of centers that Nellie hasn't been able to use that have blossomed once they've left him? Guys that can't fit into his offensive system.

i'm not sure why that is the measuring stick.

as someone already pointed out, Biendrins is the perfect big man for the way GS is playing. how exactly does Biendrins playing tell you anything about POB. they are completely different types of palyers.

Nellie also runs a pretty short bench is not that enamored of playing "youngs". i have a good friend who is a huge GSW fan and he like Nellie a lot, but was frustrated at his unwillingness to play Wright and Belinelli and thought that the team was burnt out down the stretch because  of it....

Okay how about Shawn Bradley? Slow, oaf like, doesn't bring much to the table offensively.

By the way, I don't understand why Biedrins and O Bryant are so different. What does Biedrins do in that system that gives him such a large degree of separation?

Nellie didn't use his youngsters because they were trying to make the playoffs and the youngsters weren't ready. The Warriors had no room for error and needed to play their best players as seen by their 48 wins not being good enough for the playoffs. Nellie has said they'll be going to the youngsters more next season and that he expects both Wright and Belinelli to be in the rotation next season.

[winsomme]

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

The system theory is just as illogical. A big man who rebounds, blocks and defends is good in all time zones. That's why Biedrins is on the court. If Biedrins could actually defend the post well enough he'd be getting 35-40mpg.

Seriously, how about a list of centers that Nellie hasn't been able to use that have blossomed once they've left him? Guys that can't fit into his offensive system.

i'm not sure why that is the measuring stick.

as someone already pointed out, Biendrins is the perfect big man for the way GS is playing. how exactly does Biendrins playing tell you anything about POB. they are completely different types of palyers.

Nellie also runs a pretty short bench is not that enamored of playing "youngs". i have a good friend who is a huge GSW fan and he like Nellie a lot, but was frustrated at his unwillingness to play Wright and Belinelli and thought that the team was burnt out down the stretch because  of it....

Okay how about Shawn Bradley? Slow, oaf like, doesn't bring much to the table offensively.

By the way, I don't understand why Biedrins and O Bryant are so different. What does Biedrins do in that system that gives him such a large degree of separation?

Nellie didn't use his youngsters because they were trying to make the playoffs and the youngsters weren't ready. The Warriors had no room for error and needed to play their best players as seen by their 48 wins not being good enough for the playoffs. Nellie has said they'll be going to the youngsters more next season and that he expects both Wright and Belinelli to be in the rotation next season.

first off, Dallas didn't play run and gun. it didn't fit their best player - Dirk Nowitzki.

secondly, Bradely was not a young when he came to Dallas. plus, his career went steadily downhill in Dallas.

i have no idea what Shawn Bradely proves about POB.

you want me to give you an example of a POB type player that Nellie has held back...but the reverse is also true....how many half-court Cs has he turned into a great player? i can't find one.

and i'm not sure where to go with this discussion if you don't agree about the difference between the physical makeup of Biendrins and POB. Biendrins is a transition big and POB is your classic half court big.

[fan33]

O'Bryant is an ally-oop type Center which I suspect the Cs will actually draw up plays for! I want to see how well he screens on picks & rolls, as well with our very good offensive rebounding I see the potential for alot of upside in a system designed for his strengths around the rim. He has very good hands reportedly, making soft handed catches if he is intergrated properly on an unselfish team. Ubuntu-

[winsomme]

i don't think it's a scapegoat situation. i think they simply play a style of ball that does not fit his makeup.

the guy is a total x-factor at this point. he's almost like a rookie in terms of NBA PT.

The system theory is just as illogical. A big man who rebounds, blocks and defends is good in all time zones. That's why Biedrins is on the court. If Biedrins could actually defend the post well enough he'd be getting 35-40mpg.

Seriously, how about a list of centers that Nellie hasn't been able to use that have blossomed once they've left him? Guys that can't fit into his offensive system.

i'm not sure why that is the measuring stick.

as someone already pointed out, Biendrins is the perfect big man for the way GS is playing. how exactly does Biendrins playing tell you anything about POB. they are completely different types of palyers.

Nellie also runs a pretty short bench is not that enamored of playing "youngs". i have a good friend who is a huge GSW fan and he like Nellie a lot, but was frustrated at his unwillingness to play Wright and Belinelli and thought that the team was burnt out down the stretch because  of it....

Okay how about Shawn Bradley? Slow, oaf like, doesn't bring much to the table offensively.

By the way, I don't understand why Biedrins and O Bryant are so different. What does Biedrins do in that system that gives him such a large degree of separation?

Nellie didn't use his youngsters because they were trying to make the playoffs and the youngsters weren't ready. The Warriors had no room for error and needed to play their best players as seen by their 48 wins not being good enough for the playoffs. Nellie has said they'll be going to the youngsters more next season and that he expects both Wright and Belinelli to be in the rotation next season.

one other thing on this, are you saying that GS is not trying to make the playoffs this season? it makes the Maggette signing very strange if they are going into rebuiiding mode.

the fact of the matter is that they have to play "youngs" and should have played them more last season during the season because by the end Jax and Baron were burnt out.

their roster is the point now with so many highly thought of youngs who fit their stlye of play that they simply have to play them. it makes no sense to not play Wright, Randolph, Belinelli. it made no sense last year either with Wright and Belinelli. it wasn't like they were going to be taking PT away from players that deserved it. Nellie was playing a very short bench there.

[winsomme]

O'Bryant is an ally-oop type Center which I suspect the Cs will actually draw up plays for! I want to see how well he screens on picks & rolls, as well with our very good offensive rebounding I see the potential for alot of upside in a system designed for his strengths around the rim. He has very good hands reportedly, making soft handed catches if he is intergrated properly on an unselfish team. Ubuntu-

give him some quality time with Clifford Ray and let's see what we have. i think overall the signing makes a lot of sense.

[Who]

first off, Dallas didn't play run and gun. it didn't fit their best player - Dirk Nowitzki.

secondly, Bradely was not a young when he came to Dallas. plus, his career went steadily downhill in Dallas.

i have no idea what Shawn Bradely proves about POB.

you want me to give you an example of a POB type player that Nellie has held back...but the reverse is also true....how many half-court Cs has he turned into a great player? i can't find one.

and i'm not sure where to go with this discussion if you don't agree about the difference between the physical makeup of Biendrins and POB. Biendrins is a transition big and POB is your classic half court big.

I'm not sure what makes O Bryant a classic half court center. What makes him a half court center?

...................

Those Dallas teams were regularly near the top of the NBA in pace factor. They ranked fourth quickest in 2001 with Bradley logging 2000 minutes on the season. Run and gun definitely did favour their best player in Dirk (one of the most athletic bigs in the league and deadly in transition for those threes) and their second and third best players in Nash and Finley.

Bradley also had one of his best seasons under Nellie (tie for second or third best) and Bradley got worse because of age leading to retirement.

Nellie doesn't have a list of centers because he's never gotten to coach teams with talented centers for any period of time. The only centers Nellie has had with talent, he's used and they've performed well for him. That's not development but it certainly not, and nowhere close to being, hurting someone's career and holding them back.

Patrick Ewing would be the best. Ewing had better numbers and the Knicks had a better record than they did under Nellie's replacement, JVG, in 95-96. Chris Webber who won RoY while putting up 17.5ppg and 9rpg under Nellie. Next closest is Jack Sikma who again did well under Nellie but was coming towards the tail end of his career.

A less talented center would be Alton Lister, limited offensive player, who had some of the best seasons of his career under Nellie. Actually now that I think about Lister was a rookie under Nellie and improved a fair bit under Nellie. He started out as a rookie playing 15mpg under Nellie, who Nellie turned into a starter. I was thinking of his GSW days, last season of his career where he played good minutes.

Then there's also Andris Biedrins who took huge steps forward under Nellie.

There's also Eric Dampier who Nellie played more minutes and got better production out of than Avery Johnson. That was Damp's best statistical season for the Mavs and the most minutes he played while there.

Yet I see absolutely zero centers with talent who suffered under Nellie and were held back.