The Boston Clippers

[CelticsWhat35]

I realize that Tony Allen has his supporters and detractors on this forum, but failing to extend a qualifying offer to Tony Allen is a cheap, chintzy move that is beneath the Celtics franchise.  It's like something Donald Sterling and the Clippers would do.

Tony Allen is a heck of a defender and has been a good teammate.  Even his detractors remember how well he was playing before his injury.  And $2.7 million is peanuts by NBA standards (even if you take the luxury tax into account), especially for a 4th year player with TA's skills.

And to make matters worse, Rivers lied when asked about Tony Allen.  He said that he wanted him back, and implied that the club was interested in having Tony back.  He said that Giddens was not drafted to replace TA. 

Ubuntu or no ubuntu, Rivers is a prevaricating snake who talks out of both sides of his mouth.  As in the situation where he lied about the reasons why Telfair did not return for the second half in NY, he just made matters worse by being untruthful.

If I were James Posey, I would think long and hard about entering into a long-term contract with a franchise capable of acting in this matter.  Shame on you, Celtics.

Yeah, James Posey should think long and hard before playing for a franchise totally committed to winning.  

Doesn't take long after a title for the whining to pick up again.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm sorry, but loyalty is pretty much a bygone term in regards to contracts in professional sports these days.  And that's a two-way street.

I'd love it if these guys were all blood brothers, bonded for life and sworn to the highest standards of morality, but that's not the way it is.

The difference between the Celts and the Clippers is 17 championships.

Or one, if we focus on the last 22 years or so lol.

Go back even further than the past 22 years then - or even include the past 22 seasons - to compare the C's to the Clippers is nuts.  Take away the 17 banners, and the Celtics still have had a more competitive team in  their off years then the Clippers have had.  I know that the gist of the OP's argument was based on how management deals with its employees, but I can't sit idly and compare the two franchises at any level without pointing out that the Clippers have won one playoff series since they moved to San Diego from Buffalo a bazillion years ago.

I know, I know... was joking you know

[footey]

I understand the business decision made by Danny not to extend the QO. However, we must assume that the new rookies won't contribute anything meaningful this coming year. They're rookies, afterall.  Tony in my opinion, when healthy, is of greater value to htis team than Eddie House.  I think a healthy Tony Allen had the potential of replacing Ray Allen as the starting 2 guard in another couple of years.  

[TrueGreen]

I realize that Tony Allen has his supporters and detractors on this forum, but failing to extend a qualifying offer to Tony Allen is a cheap, chintzy move that is beneath the Celtics franchise.  It's like something Donald Sterling and the Clippers would do.

Tony Allen is a heck of a defender and has been a good teammate.  Even his detractors remember how well he was playing before his injury.  And $2.7 million is peanuts by NBA standards (even if you take the luxury tax into account), especially for a 4th year player with TA's skills.

And to make matters worse, Rivers lied when asked about Tony Allen.  He said that he wanted him back, and implied that the club was interested in having Tony back.  He said that Giddens was not drafted to replace TA. 

Ubuntu or no ubuntu, Rivers is a prevaricating snake who talks out of both sides of his mouth.  As in the situation where he lied about the reasons why Telfair did not return for the second half in NY, he just made matters worse by being untruthful.

If I were James Posey, I would think long and hard about entering into a long-term contract with a franchise capable of acting in this matter.  Shame on you, Celtics.

You seem to be assuming alot, as if you know what's going on behind the scenes. You seem to talking more about the previous owners and management. Your statement would fit them perfectly, but it doesn't fit here.

[Truth Hurts]

I'm sure if you asked Doc, he would like to have Lebron James also. Doesn't mean he is going to get him.

the Celtics may still want Tony Allen. Just not at $5.5 million. Relax and let it unfold. Who is going to offer Allen that kind of money? He could probably be brought back for less. If Posey is not re-signed, I guarantee they will be a bit more pro-active trying to re-sign allen. If Posey does sign, they'll wait it out and if no one offers him anything of note, they'll offer him a roster spot in training camp. I just don't see a huge demand for a young player with two major knee injuries, no handle, no jump shot and questionable decision-making. I like Tony Allen, and would like his defense and athleticism back. I just don't want him so badly that i want to overpay for him.

I think Ainge knows what he is doing. He is the Executive of the Year. Give him a chance to put the roster together, and then decide if we are the Clippers. Something tells me we will be pretty good again next year. The Clippers? Not so much....

[Redz]

I'm sorry, but loyalty is pretty much a bygone term in regards to contracts in professional sports these days.  And that's a two-way street.

I'd love it if these guys were all blood brothers, bonded for life and sworn to the highest standards of morality, but that's not the way it is.

The difference between the Celts and the Clippers is 17 championships.

Or one, if we focus on the last 22 years or so lol.

Go back even further than the past 22 years then - or even include the past 22 seasons - to compare the C's to the Clippers is nuts.  Take away the 17 banners, and the Celtics still have had a more competitive team in  their off years then the Clippers have had.  I know that the gist of the OP's argument was based on how management deals with its employees, but I can't sit idly and compare the two franchises at any level without pointing out that the Clippers have won one playoff series since they moved to San Diego from Buffalo a bazillion years ago.

I know, I know... was joking you know

I know you were kidding, but it still held a bit of truth - to simply lump all 17 Championships together you do need to sort of mention the 22 year hiatus.  I just wanted to elaborate on the idea that even when the Celts weren't raising banners they have only had a few REALLY awful seasons - whereas el Clippers have been suckbags much more often than not.

[cdif911]

yay for entertaining threads - here's my take

TA is replaceable, but yes is a bargain at 2.7 million dollar by NBA standards.  Assuming Posey is back and everyone stays healthy, there's not many minutes for him, especially if Giddens and/or Walker get any burn at all.

Loyalty in the NBA basically doesn't exist, its about winning now and in some cases preparing for the future.  Does Tony help us win now?  Maybe, but so can plenty of other guys

Tony got his ring early in his career.  Tony will get paid by someone, so I'm not too worried about him.

Doc didn't lie, If I were him I'd say I want everyone back too, its true - it doesn't mean its gonna happen.

I heard an interview with TA on EEI the other day where he said he'd love to come back but realizes this is a business, so its not like his dreams are being crushed, he'll get his opportunity somewhere, and I think on a bad team he really can score 20 ppg, thus boosting his salary even more....

[Brickowski]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

[ma11l]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

I'm sure a lot of us are expecting Posey to go somewhere else for the money.  He has two rings and this will be his last big contract.  The way he played in the playoffs he can get one more big pay day.


I don't think Posey is looking at what the Celtics did with TA and saying screw them I don't wanna play for those "disloyal owners." 

[fairweatherfan]

To compare this team's management to the Clippers is ridiculous.  Did you forget the part where we intentionally took on 100+ million in salary commitments over last season and the next 3 by trading for Ray and KG, and then pushed ourselves further into luxury tax territory by picking up several veteran free agents?  Yeah, that's a Donald Sterling move right there, by the book.

And to join with the chorus, yes this is a business and everyone directly involved understands it.  What is Doc supposed to say right after winning a championship?  "We want almost everyone back, we'd prefer to get rid of Tony Allen though, we don't think he's worth a QO.  And we want Posey back, but we're only willing to offer him $12 mill over 3 years max."  Do you think no one here would be attacking him for that kind of "honesty"?  Not to mention that statement assumes that at that moment Doc was privy to exactly every move Danny would decide to make weeks later. 

My guess is at that point all options were still on the table, including giving an offer to Tony.  Secondly, coaches and management do not have a sacred duty to tell the media the absolute truth.  If you believe what the media is told is exactly identical to what players, agents, or management are being told, I have a bridge to sell you. My guess is the lack of a QO was not a surprise to Tony when it happened - he was likely informed, which is the only place honesty could be said to actually matter.  And I agree - some people will never be happy no matter what this team does.

[SamuelAdams]

Go back and look at the players DA has "talked up." They were traded.

I guess I can appreciate your love for Tony Allen.  I just never saw all that in his game.   For every great play there was the obligatory turnover.   FWIW, he did play well in his limited minutes in the Finals.   Tony's biggest problem, imo, is he thinks too much about what is going on.  In the Finals, it was moving too fast for him to think and he reacted. We saw his potential but it still remains as only potential...

[Ersatz]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

You always say that.

[cdif911]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

how rare is it for a guy to take a hometown discount...it barely happens, and it is a business, if I can make more money, while winning (from a GM/owner's perspective) I do it - just like as a player, if I can win and make money I'll do it - yes I'm a multimillionaire, but its still the principle....sometimes a guy will take a paycut to get that title, much like I think JP did this year, but it had to be in the back of his mind that he'd launch himself onto a new payscale if he could help bring green 17 here... I'd be sad and dissapointed if Posey goes, but I'll understand, just like yes I like Tony Allen as a player and a person, but if he goes elsewhere I understand it was a business AND a basketball decision

[BballTim]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

  Is it a given that we won't re-sign him? I'd want him back but for less than $2.7M. Maybe they could work out a 1 year deal. Tony could prove that he's healthy and get a better FA contract next year. We'd knw what we had with Giddens and Walker by then and wouldn't have to rely on them in their rookie years.

[Redz]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

If Posey wants to cash in no ones going to blame him.  The Celts signed him to a one-year deal at short money last year.  His value is never going to be higher than it is right now.

Look at what each guy has done at the points of their careers where they had a chance to cash in on a big pay day.

Posey took short cash and helped a team win a title, while showing what a valuable team guy he is.

Tony Allen, on the other hand, at a point when he was playing the best ball of his career injured his knee for a second time making a bonehead dunk after the whistle had blown.  He hasn't been the same since.

They both deserve whatever the highest bidder deems them worthy of.  Such is life in the NBA.