The Boston Clippers

[Roy Hobbs]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

how rare is it for a guy to take a hometown discount...it barely happens, and it is a business, if I can make more money, while winning (from a GM/owner's perspective) I do it - just like as a player, if I can win and make money I'll do it - yes I'm a multimillionaire, but its still the principle....sometimes a guy will take a paycut to get that title, much like I think JP did this year, but it had to be in the back of his mind that he'd launch himself onto a new payscale if he could help bring green 17 here... I'd be sad and dissapointed if Posey goes, but I'll understand, just like yes I like Tony Allen as a player and a person, but if he goes elsewhere I understand it was a business AND a basketball decision

Agreed.  What loyalty does Posey owe this franchise?  We gave him a one-year "make good" contract.  He made good.  He's got two rings.  Now, he wants to get paid what he's worth.  I don't have a problem with him leaving, assuming 1) he doesn't go elsewhere for the same money we're offering, and 2) he doesn't take shots at the franchise on the way out the door.  I don't anticipate either of those things happening, so I don't begrudge Posey his free agency.

[Donoghus]

This was a business deal, plain & simple.  That's how the economics of the NBA work these days with the salary cap and luxury taxes.

I'm sure they would have no problem bring Tony Allen back.  Just not for the financial hit he was going to give us  if he picked up his offer. 

The Celtics anticipated this and made a decision to go the youth route to find his replacement.  They drafted for an anticipated need and knew it would come at a reduced financial commitment.

This is business.

[Andy Jick]

loyalty in professional sports does not exist...and it goes both ways.

i know we fans are always worrying about 2, 3 or 5 years down the road, but the reality anymore is that we have to take this year to year.

if posey leaves, well, at least he helped bring #17...and i'm sure someone will arrive to fill his void.  but let's wait and see what happens before we make premature assumptions.

tony allen owes this franchise nothing, just as the celtics owe him nothing.  he's an athlete / entertainer who will go to the highest bidder.  i don't blame him - none of us know for sure if we'd do the same.

if you were a cav's fan right now, how would you feel about lebron already making statements regarding his next stop (n.y. or the nets)?  THAT is somewhat disloyal because he's still under contract.  and what about playing next to a guy who is basically plotting his exit strategy already?

as a kid, seeing tony allen leave might be a bit disappointing...but as an adult i see it as a part of the "business" of the sport.  maybe brickowski is more youthful than we know...

[JSD]

loyalty in professional sports does not exist...and it goes both ways.

i know we fans are always worrying about 2, 3 or 5 years down the road, but the reality anymore is that we have to take this year to year.

if posey leaves, well, at least he helped bring #17...and i'm sure someone will arrive to fill his void.  but let's wait and see what happens before we make premature assumptions.

tony allen owes this franchise nothing, just as the celtics owe him nothing.  he's an athlete / entertainer who will go to the highest bidder.  i don't blame him - none of us know for sure if we'd do the same.

if you were a cav's fan right now, how would you feel about lebron already making statements regarding his next stop (n.y. or the nets)?  THAT is somewhat disloyal because he's still under contract.  and what about playing next to a guy who is basically plotting his exit strategy already?

as a kid, seeing tony allen leave might be a bit disappointing...but as an adult i see it as a part of the "business" of the sport.  maybe brickowski is more youthful than we know...

Lebron was asked what did favorite borough in NYC was and he answered the question...

[ma11l]

loyalty in professional sports does not exist...and it goes both ways.

i know we fans are always worrying about 2, 3 or 5 years down the road, but the reality anymore is that we have to take this year to year.

if posey leaves, well, at least he helped bring #17...and i'm sure someone will arrive to fill his void.  but let's wait and see what happens before we make premature assumptions.

tony allen owes this franchise nothing, just as the celtics owe him nothing.  he's an athlete / entertainer who will go to the highest bidder.  i don't blame him - none of us know for sure if we'd do the same.

if you were a cav's fan right now, how would you feel about lebron already making statements regarding his next stop (n.y. or the nets)?  THAT is somewhat disloyal because he's still under contract.  and what about playing next to a guy who is basically plotting his exit strategy already?

as a kid, seeing tony allen leave might be a bit disappointing...but as an adult i see it as a part of the "business" of the sport.  maybe brickowski is more youthful than we know...

Lebron was asked what did favorite borough in NYC was and he answered the question...

Haha I think he did a little more than just answer that question.  I haven't read any Cavs forums lately but I'm sure they're upset and rightfully so.  Imagine Paul talking like that when he had years left on his contract.

[LarBrd33]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

how rare is it for a guy to take a hometown discount...it barely happens, and it is a business, if I can make more money, while winning (from a GM/owner's perspective) I do it - just like as a player, if I can win and make money I'll do it - yes I'm a multimillionaire, but its still the principle....sometimes a guy will take a paycut to get that title, much like I think JP did this year, but it had to be in the back of his mind that he'd launch himself onto a new payscale if he could help bring green 17 here... I'd be sad and dissapointed if Posey goes, but I'll understand, just like yes I like Tony Allen as a player and a person, but if he goes elsewhere I understand it was a business AND a basketball decision

Agreed.  What loyalty does Posey owe this franchise?  We gave him a one-year "make good" contract.  He made good.  He's got two rings.  Now, he wants to get paid what he's worth.  I don't have a problem with him leaving, assuming 1) he doesn't go elsewhere for the same money we're offering, and 2) he doesn't take shots at the franchise on the way out the door.  I don't anticipate either of those things happening, so I don't begrudge Posey his free agency.

What if he ends up on the Lakers?

[cdif911]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

how rare is it for a guy to take a hometown discount...it barely happens, and it is a business, if I can make more money, while winning (from a GM/owner's perspective) I do it - just like as a player, if I can win and make money I'll do it - yes I'm a multimillionaire, but its still the principle....sometimes a guy will take a paycut to get that title, much like I think JP did this year, but it had to be in the back of his mind that he'd launch himself onto a new payscale if he could help bring green 17 here... I'd be sad and dissapointed if Posey goes, but I'll understand, just like yes I like Tony Allen as a player and a person, but if he goes elsewhere I understand it was a business AND a basketball decision

Agreed.  What loyalty does Posey owe this franchise?  We gave him a one-year "make good" contract.  He made good.  He's got two rings.  Now, he wants to get paid what he's worth.  I don't have a problem with him leaving, assuming 1) he doesn't go elsewhere for the same money we're offering, and 2) he doesn't take shots at the franchise on the way out the door.  I don't anticipate either of those things happening, so I don't begrudge Posey his free agency.

What if he ends up on the Lakers?

then we're soooo not having a James Posey night...

[BballTim]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

how rare is it for a guy to take a hometown discount...it barely happens, and it is a business, if I can make more money, while winning (from a GM/owner's perspective) I do it - just like as a player, if I can win and make money I'll do it - yes I'm a multimillionaire, but its still the principle....sometimes a guy will take a paycut to get that title, much like I think JP did this year, but it had to be in the back of his mind that he'd launch himself onto a new payscale if he could help bring green 17 here... I'd be sad and dissapointed if Posey goes, but I'll understand, just like yes I like Tony Allen as a player and a person, but if he goes elsewhere I understand it was a business AND a basketball decision

Agreed.  What loyalty does Posey owe this franchise?  We gave him a one-year "make good" contract.  He made good.  He's got two rings.  Now, he wants to get paid what he's worth.  I don't have a problem with him leaving, assuming 1) he doesn't go elsewhere for the same money we're offering, and 2) he doesn't take shots at the franchise on the way out the door.  I don't anticipate either of those things happening, so I don't begrudge Posey his free agency.

What if he ends up on the Lakers?

  We'll still beat them.

[crownsy]

And to make matters worse, Rivers lied when asked about Tony Allen.  He said that he wanted him back, and implied that the club was interested in having Tony back.  He said that Giddens was not drafted to replace TA.


How can you say doc lied.  He said what he said and danny is the one that offers the deals.  think about it. 

He lied, at least as his comments were reported in the press.  Go back and read the article.  Rivers almost certainly knew that the QO would not be extended when he opened his mouth.  As for letting TA become an unrestricted free agent and then trying to sign him for less than $2.7 million, that's also a classic Clippers move.

If TA fully recovers from his injury, he is the kind of player who could help beat the Celtics in a playoff series if he signs with a team like Cleveland or even the Wizards, who always give the Celtics trouble and who are in the market for a shooting guard.  It would serve Rivers right. 

offering TA a free 3 million or so saftey net and attempting to bring him back at his proper value, which i think is about 1.5, are two diffrent things.

the celts aren't obligated to give tony 2.7 if they think the market for him is less, which they clearly do ( i happen to agree with them, i don't think anyone in the leauge is spending 3 million a year on a bench player with blown out ACL's....mabey memphis.)

i love tony allen, but he's not some mythical great player, hes a good defender who has had major injury problems. the lore that has sprung up around him off a good 20 game stretch is amazing.

also, when exactly, and ive asked this multiple time of TA still injuured posters, is he going to be fully recovered?

first it was the start of this year, then it was the all star break, then it was around playoff time. now its next year.

have you ever stopped to consider that mabey he's like most of the other people who have major reconstructive acl surgery not once but TWICE and has just lost alot of his explosivness?

[crownsy]

Well, I think not resigning TA was a dumb decision motivated by money and not basketball.

Disloyalty is a two-way street, I don't want to hear any complaints when Posey signs elsewhere for more money. After all, it's a business.

What goes around, comes around.

so you think that it would be a smart basketball move to commit 5.5 million to a guard slot to be filled by a gaurd  with limited offensive skills who turns the ball voer at the highest rate per minute in the NBA, leads the team in TO/minute, Fouls p/min, and has shown no jump shot in 4 years.

and, this gaurd also has had 2 catastropic knee injurys that we keep being assured "are going to heal up". ive been told his entire problem is those knees, and once they heal he'll be the complete package.

to me, this sounds like a slam at the ownership motivated by a "love of the player" decision, not a basketball decision. nothing wrogn with that either, god knows i feel that way about pierce. but lets be honest, You can get good garud defenders who don't have reconstructed knees for less than 2.7 million, and they can probley dribble, something TA struggles with. what other qualities Does TA bring that don't require me to forgive his flaws as injury side effects that will be unreplacable?

a very good (i refuse to call soemone who makes as many stupid fouls as he does a great defender) defending guard with limited offensive skills does not cost 2.7 million in todays nba.



 

[Brickowski]

He hasn't lost his explosiveness, just his confidence.

If you folks want to convince yourselves that acting like the skinflint Clippers, and getting that reputation around the league, is good business, then go right ahead.  It hasn't worked very well for the Clips, as evidenced by every good player they;'ve ever had leaving (most recently Elton Brand). But hey, maybe it will work in Boston.

[cordobes]

He hasn't lost his explosiveness, just his confidence.

If you folks want to convince yourselves that acting like the skinflint Clippers, and getting that reputation around the league, is good business, then go right ahead.  It hasn't worked very well for the Clips, as evidenced by every good player they;'ve ever had leaving (most recently Elton Brand). But hey, maybe it will work in Boston.

Are you aware that with or without Tony Allen we are one of the most expensive teams in the league?

Are you aware that we're talking about a end of the roster player who can still be resigned for much less? Or do you really believe that someone will offer Allen something close to $2.7M?

[wdleehi]

He hasn't lost his explosiveness, just his confidence.

If you folks want to convince yourselves that acting like the skinflint Clippers, and getting that reputation around the league, is good business, then go right ahead.  It hasn't worked very well for the Clips, as evidenced by every good player they;'ve ever had leaving (most recently Elton Brand). But hey, maybe it will work in Boston.

It is just hard to buy when they have already spent 71 million (not including tax) this upcoming season on 9 players.


http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston.htm


That doesn't include whatever they give to either Posey or his replacement.  Doesn't include the back up PG and C they will sign.  Doesn't include the rookies. 


So, this isn't about the owners being cheap.  The team is already in tax land. 

[Donoghus]

He hasn't lost his explosiveness, just his confidence.

If you folks want to convince yourselves that acting like the skinflint Clippers, and getting that reputation around the league, is good business, then go right ahead.  It hasn't worked very well for the Clips, as evidenced by every good player they;'ve ever had leaving (most recently Elton Brand). But hey, maybe it will work in Boston.

If you want to convince yourself that an injury prone guard with questionable decision-making skills and high turnover numbers is worth $5.5 million dollars (with luxury tax) and is "good business", go right ahead.  The Celtics obviously think differently and after multiple years of their seeing the guy up close and personal, i'd be willing to give organization the benefit of the doubt here. 

Enough with loyalty, it's just a economic and business decision.  This is professional sports.  Loyalty gets you bloated contracts of guys past their primes or just overpaid half talent and usually lead to years hanging in mediocrity since these "loyalty" contracts usually end up crippling the teams' ability to either sign free agents or resign their own, rising talent.

Committing $5.5 million to a guy who isn't even a regular rotation guy is just not smart.

[BillfromBoston]

I realize that Tony Allen has his supporters and detractors on this forum, but failing to extend a qualifying offer to Tony Allen is a cheap, chintzy move that is beneath the Celtics franchise.  It's like something Donald Sterling and the Clippers would do.

Tony Allen is a heck of a defender and has been a good teammate.  Even his detractors remember how well he was playing before his injury.  And $2.7 million is peanuts by NBA standards (even if you take the luxury tax into account), especially for a 4th year player with TA's skills.

And to make matters worse, Rivers lied when asked about Tony Allen.  He said that he wanted him back, and implied that the club was interested in having Tony back.  He said that Giddens was not drafted to replace TA. 

Ubuntu or no ubuntu, Rivers is a prevaricating snake who talks out of both sides of his mouth.  As in the situation where he lied about the reasons why Telfair did not return for the second half in NY, he just made matters worse by being untruthful.

If I were James Posey, I would think long and hard about entering into a long-term contract with a franchise capable of acting in this matter.  Shame on you, Celtics.

....even after a championship, you still have almost no ability to read the moves and machinations of this franchise Brick...

Nobody lied to anybody and the team isn't being "cheap" its playing the market...

The team's first priority is to James Posey, that should be evident. But the fact remains that Tony Allen is somebody they may very well bring back---but not for a QO that exceeds his current market value.

Its not the teams job to reward Tony for hanging around...the market for Tony Allen is likely to be below the 2.7 million Tony would have gotten with the QO. I'm sure the team will extend him an offer closer to Eddie House money (1. and allow Tony the right to test free agency.

If there is a team that will pay Tony more than 2 million per year, then its to Tony's benefit to go chase the dough-and perhaps more playing time.

This is a business...Tony Allen was very unproductive this year and the team got great value at the wings in the draft---that is not a slap in the face, that's the reality of team building...

...all you've done over the past 2 years before this one is whine about how poorly this organization was being run and then this year you slapped in the face with the reality of your own limited and uninformed viewpoint...so now your just going to glance over all of your own shortcomings when its come to prognosticating anything remotely accurate regarding this team and start another bash fest?

...whatever is truly bothering you in life, see to that before trying to bring everyone else down...

Good day sir