Dare I say it...Antoine?

[nickagneta]

Yes, that he's probably a better player than most people we could afford. We should have plenty of roster spaces to fill. He can be a legit scorer with our second unit, something we lacked last year... etc, etc. He'll help our team stay big when needed.

He played under Pat Riley... and guess what, we're playing Pat Riley's type of defense.

I was one who voted "No" on the poll by the way, but him getting bought out changes things significantly.

Oh, and he can provide that little thing known as depth.

Whaaaaa?

The guy shot <40% the last two years. So unless you want him firing up 10 shots a game, he won't put up many points.

He may have played on a good defensive team recently, but isn't he not as quick as he was a few years and only 6'9"? What's he going to do when his man gets around him to the hoop?

So, yeah, he adds about as much depth as Scal.

I forgot where I mentioned that I thought he'll put up many points. But fact is that we have little resources to get people to play here. At the moment, if we want to keep Posey, we'll be relying mostly on luck that people want to come to play here for nothing... and that's what I think we can get for Walker, almost nothing (somewhere around vet. min.).

Find me someone in that price range that you think we could get and is better than Walker. I doubt you'd find many. And even so, I still think we have plenty of roster spaces. And sure, just as much depth as Scal.  Scal ended up not playing with that team... towards the end, so who cares? That's what depth is for. You use it when needed, and when you don't you throw it aside.

How about here.

He can be a legit scorer with our second unit, something we lacked last year... etc, etc.

My definition of a legit scorer is that he puts up many points.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Yes, that he's probably a better player than most people we could afford. We should have plenty of roster spaces to fill. He can be a legit scorer with our second unit, something we lacked last year... etc, etc. He'll help our team stay big when needed.

He played under Pat Riley... and guess what, we're playing Pat Riley's type of defense.

I was one who voted "No" on the poll by the way, but him getting bought out changes things significantly.

Oh, and he can provide that little thing known as depth.

Whaaaaa?

The guy shot <40% the last two years. So unless you want him firing up 10 shots a game, he won't put up many points.

He may have played on a good defensive team recently, but isn't he not as quick as he was a few years and only 6'9"? What's he going to do when his man gets around him to the hoop?

So, yeah, he adds about as much depth as Scal.

I forgot where I mentioned that I thought he'll put up many points. But fact is that we have little resources to get people to play here. At the moment, if we want to keep Posey, we'll be relying mostly on luck that people want to come to play here for nothing... and that's what I think we can get for Walker, almost nothing (somewhere around vet. min.).

Find me someone in that price range that you think we could get and is better than Walker. I doubt you'd find many. And even so, I still think we have plenty of roster spaces. And sure, just as much depth as Scal.  Scal ended up not playing with that team... towards the end, so who cares? That's what depth is for. You use it when needed, and when you don't you throw it aside.

How about here.

He can be a legit scorer with our second unit, something we lacked last year... etc, etc.

My definition of a legit scorer is that he puts up many points.

Not if he's only getting spot minutes here and there. He has the tools of a legit scorer, that he puts the points up or not is another thing completely. He doesn't need to play off anyone, he can create his own things... he can be "the man" even with his dimished skills to set things in motion. In all, he demands the attention that few in our bench demanded, aside from being 3-point threats.

I'll remember next time that mentioning that someone is a scorer will lead people to assume that I expect a player to put up many points.

Anyways, that I'd only want him for cheap, as explained in my posts, should tell people what my expectations for him are... and expecting him to score many points is not one of them.

I'd take 8 points on 40% shooting from a guy off the bench that we got for the vet. min. pretty much any day. That's pretty much what we got from House and Posey, the difference is that Walker can do damage down low too.

[crownsy]

If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.

sorry, i like the whole winning thing. it will be tough, but i think i can go without the wiggle.

also, to whoever said that all walker needed in minn to produce was playing time, he got the playing time early, and was a train wreck. thats why he got benched.

[quidinqui33]

I told my buddies just the other day...the only thing that would have made this season better would have been if toine was able to wiggle his way to a celtics championship.

The guy has an ugly game that would not fit in the current system, but he will always be a celtic in my books.  No one, I mean no one loved being on this team more than that guy.  He came to the finals games for crying out loud just to watch and be a part of it.  How many players would do that?

I hope we win a several more rings, and I hope somehow toine can get a ring with us.  Perhaps in the scalabrine roll.

Employee #8!

[PSquared]

If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.

sorry, i like the whole winning thing. it will be tough, but i think i can go without the wiggle.

also, to whoever said that all walker needed in minn to produce was playing time, he got the playing time early, and was a train wreck. thats why he got benched.

*BZZZZT* WRONG!  He Got benched 'cause he and the head Coach had an agreement later in the season that he wanted to go YOUTH-MOVEMENT the whole way.  Do your research, man....

[BudweiserCeltic]

If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.

sorry, i like the whole winning thing. it will be tough, but i think i can go without the wiggle.

also, to whoever said that all walker needed in minn to produce was playing time, he got the playing time early, and was a train wreck. thats why he got benched.

*BZZZZT* WRONG!  He Got benched 'cause he and the head Coach had an agreement later in the season that he wanted to go YOUTH-MOVEMENT the whole way.  Do your research, man....

I'm with you in this regard, he was quite good early in the season (no train wreck whatsoever).

Needless to say that the team was completely disorganized, and the coach was simply awful.  Antoine could be quite useful in a veteran team like ours, but for the right price. And considering that his price tag should be very low, we should try and get him.

[crownsy]

If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.

sorry, i like the whole winning thing. it will be tough, but i think i can go without the wiggle.

also, to whoever said that all walker needed in minn to produce was playing time, he got the playing time early, and was a train wreck. thats why he got benched.

*BZZZZT* WRONG!  He Got benched 'cause he and the head Coach had an agreement later in the season that he wanted to go YOUTH-MOVEMENT the whole way.  Do your research, man....

do yours, though i already looked at these logs, i'll post them for you. as to that "agreement" thats called being nice to the player in front of the media, its unprofessional to say a player stinks..

also, did quite good in the early games? which  early games were those?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antoine_walker/game_by_game_stats.html

lets see how old toine was producing before they benched him and after in reality , not BZZZZZT land.

terrible in February, only shooting above 40% once and topping the charts with a 4-12 game as his best. but, im willing to chalk that one up to getting the rhythm back. but again, what games was he "quite good" in here? he shot better than 40% exactly once, and was downright terrible outside of 2 games.

where exactly was he quite good in the early season?

Bad in January outside of the GS game, Awful again in December outside of the Indiana game and possibly the philly game in which he shot 50%. 2 good games out of 11. i cant see why the benched this guy at this point.

got a ton of time (realitivly) in novemeber, which i found odd considering he had been benched for the youth movement at that point. rewarded the 20 minute a game average with a string of uneven performances, though he did have, by my estimation 4, possibly 5 good shooting nights. out of 13.

Oct back to the pine for the final four.

Nothing here to disprove my claim at all, glad i didn't do any research 

[dark_lord]

interestingly enough....rumor has it that toine wore this exact shirt after his title in miami 

[BudweiserCeltic]

If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.

sorry, i like the whole winning thing. it will be tough, but i think i can go without the wiggle.

also, to whoever said that all walker needed in minn to produce was playing time, he got the playing time early, and was a train wreck. thats why he got benched.

*BZZZZT* WRONG!  He Got benched 'cause he and the head Coach had an agreement later in the season that he wanted to go YOUTH-MOVEMENT the whole way.  Do your research, man....

do yours, though i already looked at these logs, i'll post them for you. as to that "agreement" thats called being nice to the player in front of the media, its unprofessional to say a player stinks..

also, did quite good in the early games? which  early games were those?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antoine_walker/game_by_game_stats.html

lets see how old toine was producing before they benched him and after in reality , not BZZZZZT land.

terrible in February, only shooting above 40% once and topping the charts with a 4-12 game as his best. but, im willing to chalk that one up to getting the rhythm back. but again, what games was he "quite good" in here? he shot better than 40% exactly once, and was downright terrible outside of 2 games.

where exactly was he quite good in the early season?

Bad in January outside of the GS game, Awful again in December outside of the Indiana game and possibly the philly game in which he shot 50%. 2 good games out of 11. i cant see why the benched this guy at this point.

got a ton of time (realitivly) in novemeber, which i found odd considering he had been benched for the youth movement at that point. rewarded the 20 minute a game average with a string of uneven performances, though he did have, by my estimation 4, possibly 5 good shooting nights. out of 13.

Oct back to the pine for the final four.

Nothing here to disprove my claim at all, glad i didn't do any research 

Nothing in there suggests that he was the train wreck you claimed early in the season. He was quite good/decent in November, then the irregularity started.

Minnesota was a complete mess, and to hold everything that happened to him against him last season would be a bit foolish in my opinion. After the season we've had, I would hope that we can realize that different situations can affect people in different ways. So, just because he wasn't useful through most of the season in that crap of a team in Minnesota, it doesn't mean he can't be useful to a team like the Celtics. He's had quite a decent career to be suddenly judged because of a poor year in which he was treated like dirt in one of the crappiest situations around the league.

[crownsy]

1. how is shooting below 40% and averaging 2-3 boards a game not a train wreck? i'm sorry he didn't post more 0'ers for you. would sub 30% shooting be better?

2. Im not judging his career, im judging the worth of the current antwain walker to the current boston Celtics. that was the question in this thread. He's had a good career and was a good celtic. i still like  him alot and have fond memories of him.

that doesn't color my judgment of him, he's an unproductive player we don't need.

[PSquared]

crownsy, ENOUGH!   


I've followed what the T-Wolves have done far more closely than you have.   The decision to go COMPLETELY with all the younger players was a mutal decision between not just Walker and Coach Wittman but every other VETERAN player there as well.   Buckner didn't play a lick the rest of the way and neither did Mark "Mad Dog" Madsen except for a few sporadic 5-minute garbage time stints very late in the season....




But you're right....I won't tell you to do any research.  I'm not your teacher....I'm just a Celtic Fan who knows what is what and what should be.   (led zeppelin owns, by the way....    )

[crownsy]

no need to get angry at me because i disagree with you and provided stats.

 but, to me, Antoine as currently constructed, is not a productive player.

As i said before, i like antoine, i loved him when he wore green, but the point of this thread was should we take THE CURRENT walker back as a memeber of this team. Not the one from 8 years ago. If that guy is avalable via time machine, then by all means, lets sign him.

But this walker is unproductive, and the stats i quoted bear it out. if he's "playing 5 minute garbage time stints" as you say, which is not supported by his 20 minute a game average down the stretch, then he should be scoring more, not less. in garbage time, its easier to get shots.

[PSquared]

no need to get angry at me because i disagree with you and provided stats.

 but, to me, Antoine as currently constructed, is not a productive player.

As i said before, i like antoine, i loved him when he wore green, but the point of this thread was should we take THE CURRENT walker back as a memeber of this team. Not the one from 8 years ago. If that guy is avalable via time machine, then by all means, lets sign him.

But this walker is unproductive, and the stats i quoted bear it out. if he's "playing 5 minute garbage time stints" as you say, which is not supported by his 20 minute a game average down the stretch, then he should be scoring more, not less. in garbage time, its easier to get shots.

Umm...actually, I still won't tell you to do your research....but can you please read my post more carefully next time?  that 5-minute-garbage statement was referring to Mark Madsen....   


And of course....I do get angry(or rather....Frustrated) with you 'cause while Stats do say alot, they never exactly tell the whole story.  I mean you must know that, at least.   

[dooyork]

told my buddies just the other day...the only thing that would have made this season better would have been if toine was able to wiggle his way to a celtics championship.

The guy has an ugly game that would not fit in the current system, but he will always be a celtic in my books.  No one, I mean no one loved being on this team more than that guy.  He came to the finals games for crying out loud just to watch and be a part of it.  How many players would do that?

I hope we win a several more rings, and I hope somehow toine can get a ring with us.  Perhaps in the scalabrine roll.

Employee #8!

Agree with all of the above.  If Toine signed for the vet minimum and Danny could use Scalabrine's oversized contract in a trade, what would be lost with Toine sitting at the end of the bench instead of Scal?  Nothing, Toine can do everything Scal can do, plus he's got a higher basketball IQ, he can see plays developing better than Scal.  He loved being a Celtic, and would be great with the team chemistry.  He would realize he's not the leader of the team anymore, and is not the player he was 5 years ago -- something Sam Cassell hasn't seemed to realize.  He would be the best 12th man in the league.  If KG goes down, Powe starts, and Toine backs him up.  

I don't want to spend too much time thinking about this, because it's a real longshot to happen.  But let me put it this way: after the 2002 team was blown up and Toine was shipped to Dallas, I briefly stopped paying as close attention to the C's as I did in 2002-03, when I watched probably 1/2 the games and checked the standings every day.  Then one day I picked up the paper and saw that Toine was coming back, and he came back and wore number 88, and all of a sudden the C's mattered again.  That was short lived, and again the C's receded to the background for me, until the day they traded for KG.  Since then, half my day is spent thinking about the Celtics.  The only thing that would make this even sweeter is if Toine could get back on the team and get a championship here.  It would be too good to be true.

[BudweiserCeltic]

1. how is shooting below 40% and averaging 2-3 boards a game not a train wreck? i'm sorry he didn't post more 0'ers for you. would sub 30% shooting be better?

Again, you claimed he was a train wreck early in the season. This isn't true. His November was quite good (he didn't shoot below 40% then), and after that his playing time became a mess. This was the time he started questioning what Minnesota was planning, he was questioning his role in the team because they kept throwing him around without a clear plan.

2. Im not judging his career, im judging the worth of the current antwain walker to the current boston Celtics. that was the question in this thread. He's had a good career and was a good celtic. i still like  him alot and have fond memories of him.

that doesn't color my judgment of him, he's an unproductive player we don't need.

Well I clearly think his worth is not much either, as I've only been talking about acquiring at the vet min., or around that. How can you say no to that? I mean, do you guys have eyes for more skilled players at that price range because I would love to see them, and considering that that's about all we'll have to offer around if we want to keep Posey, and considering that we should have plenty of roster spaces to fill, why not take a chance on Antoine for this cheap?

The difference is that you guys are treating him like a complete bum, and it simply doesn't work like that. He can still play the game. He's a veteran, and surrounded by a veteran team like the Celtics, I can see him being productive... as productive as you could expect from someone playing off the bench. Someone that once in a while can explode with a 15-20 point game here and there. How can you say no to that, coming of the bench for this cheap?