Poll

Does Antoine deserve consideration for a roster spot?

Yes - rotation player (6-9 spot)
Yes - glue player (10-15 spot)
No!

Author Topic: Dare I say it...Antoine?  (Read 28041 times)

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Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2008, 08:55:15 PM »

Offline PSquared

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Old McFatione shot a three!!!

EE II EE II OHHHHH!!!

On the court he took a three!!!

EE II EE II OHHHHHH!!!

With a BrickBrick Here!!!

And a BrickBrick There!!!

Here a Brick, There a Brick!!!

Everywhere a BrickBrick!!!

Old McFatione shot a three,

EE II EE II OHHHHHHHH!!!


Lol.  You came up with that one on the CelticNation forum, I recall.   ;D

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2008, 08:57:47 PM »

Offline PSquared

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There is only one postive in bringing Toine back. It would take the pressure off as far as repeating is concerned.

Wait a sec!  So you're telling me that with KG/Allen/Pierce trio still here(with Posey still here, hopefully), that this team can't repeat with Toine there?

WHY NOT?  He's not exactly a curse on this franchise or anything....not like the bambino-thing  with the Sox in the past....


Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2008, 08:58:13 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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If you don't want a little wiggle in your life you should reevaluate your priorities. Come on how bout just a little wiggle, if anyone besides Pierce deserves to win a championship in the green it is Antoine and if you argue that you are wrong.
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Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2008, 09:15:01 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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the only way toine will wiggle on the garden floor again, is if he makes the celtics dance team!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:21:08 PM by dark_lord_rises_again »

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2008, 09:17:08 PM »

Offline PSquared

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To the people who are saying "No" because Antoine "can't produce" on Minnesota - it's Minnesota.  There is no cohesiveness to that team.  I'm sure Antoine isn't too motivated there.

To the guys that say Toine takes too many bad shots - how easy people forget just how important he was to Miami's Finals run just 2 years ago....  Shots aren't ill-advised if they are limited and more importantly, if they go in.

To the people who are saying "No" because "we already have a bunch of undersized PFs" - that would presupposes that 2 of those 3 guys might be moved elsewhere (Scal, BBD, Powe).  I for one truly believes Toine is more versatile and could consistently be more effective than any of those 3, and we could probably get more size/strength elsewhere (a la in the mold of Perk, Garbajosa).

Thought it would go without saying that the Antoine move would be one of many, but apparently it wasn't as obvious as I had thought.

-Tell Jefferson (21 / 11 and 1.5 blocks, 50%) that you can't produce in Minny

Tell Randy Wittman(Minny's head coach) to start playing Antoine again instead of keeping him on the bench as an expensive courtside spectator.  Give him a bigger role in the offense so he CAN produce...   All of this won't happen 'cause Big Al, rightly so, is getting 70% of the touches with Gomes getting 20% and the rest of the team 10%.

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-I'm pretty sure we just won the title by employing an entire roster of super competitive players who would kill themselves for ANY team. Pierce, Allen, Garnett, Posey, even Scal, etc. have never taken seasons off because they were unmotivated by being on bad teawms.

Walker didn't take the season off when he averaged 22/10/8 for a BAD Atlanta team.  He didn't take the season off when he was in Minny...He busted his azz but was ultimately phased out 'cause of the youth movement.   For all of his faults, one thing I'm surprised that you're alluding is that Walker did not play his hardest when he was on the floor.   THAT is the one thing that is FACT....anything else is debatable.


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-.363% from the field, .530% free throws, 45.5 true shooting...the shots are not going in

No, they're not.  But think of it in this context...How was it that he was more successful in making the shots go in when he was in Miami but his shots didn't in Minny?    I'd say it was not a very cohesive, WELL-COACHED team he was on.  They were a bunch of young players still feeling their way in the NBA.  Plus, their coach is a Nitwit and a Moron with an IQ of Toine's original Jersey Number.

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-If by "more versatile" you mean "can brick it from close AND far away," well, i'm sure we could have powe or bbd do that too.

No, smart-azz.  By "more versatile", it means he can play multiple positions on the court, bring the ball up like a Point-Forward, post-up in the low-block and rebound(when he feels like it) like a Power-Forward(without the Power..lol), pass the ball like a Point-Guard, and of course....Shoot the Four..err, Three.   ;D


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-Better than Powe? let's see, in 33% more minutes than Powe got this year:
8pts, 3.6 rbs, .363 shooting, .530 foul shots, 8.2 shots per game
Powe:
7.9 pts, 4.1 rbs, .570 shooting, .710 foul shots, 4.8 shots per game
So, in significantly less time, with nearly half the shot attempts, powe equaled walker's scoring, outrebounded him (remember these are "power" forwards here) and did so with incredibly more efficiency. I'm guessing you don't like PER because it wouldn't capture the "intangibles" of someone like antoine, but the difference is staggering: 20.97 to 11.39.
Oh, and don't forget this number: $687,456 or $8,329,640

Well Powe's shooting percentage SHOULD BE BETTER...after all, he had freakin' THREE POSSIBLE HOF-CALIBER SUPERSTARS to play off of where he would be left alone down low for an easy inside pass for a dunk or a rebound/putback.  What did Toine have?  One ALLSTAR-in-the-making in Big Al and a bunch of unproven players(or in Bassy's case, a proven UN-Proven player) who don't know how to play effectively together.  Toine has had to(when he got the PT) force the issue on offense when his teammates kept passing the ball around and refusing to shoot, among other things.

And as far as comparing salaries go, Powe is a CAREER Roleplayer and if he's lucky, he'll crack the 1-2 million range down the road.  Toine was an Allstar and got Allstar money....and then another GM thought to take Walker at a big price to help him win a title....I'd say that guy got a return on his investment, wouldn't you?

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He actually had similar production to BBD. so walker produced about as well as an overweight rookie. yay.

I hope that "Overweight Rookie" enjoyed the Meal-ticket FREE RIDE he got to a Championship.   Toine at least EARNED His Championship in '06; something that BBD can never say(but of course that's because his mouth would be full of krispy cremes...*BURP*).

« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:25:13 PM by PSquared »

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2008, 09:31:52 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 10:12:35 PM by dark_lord_rises_again »

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2008, 09:42:22 PM »

Offline Setshot33

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We already have an over weight forward who bricks shots and who's weak in the post on this team:

Big Baby.
"We played like a bunch of women tonight"-Larry Bird

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2008, 09:56:16 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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TP4U PSquared for Toine loyalty.

I may not agree with you one iota on the subject of bringing back Employee #8 and feel that you are still seeing the Antoine of the past and can't accept the Antoine of the present and future, but I give you props for sticking with your man.

This team needs productive players on the roster, sadly, Antoine is well beyond the stage of being positively productive. If given playing time could he put up stats. Yes, but only to the point of hurting the efficiency, effectiveness, and success of the current Celtics' team dynamic.

And we don't need a leader on the floor, that's Pierce's job.
And we don't need a leader in the lockerroom, that's KG's job.
And we don't need a spiritual leader off the bench, that's Doc's job.

We need a defensive oriented wing that can shoot, a backup center, and a veteran backup PG. Antoine fits none of those descriptions

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2008, 02:29:59 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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He looked about 50 pounds over weight when we saw him on the sidelines. He would have been a good Celtic if he could get his ego and appetite under control.. It's kinda sad - he seems like a good guy.

Pete

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2008, 03:54:57 AM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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Only way Toine is back is under extreme conditions.

First C's need to be a little bit desperate.

Second, Toine needs to lower his ego and be humble...even apologize to Danny for the "snake" comment (even though it was true at the time)...and accept a limited role off the bench.

Third, he'd need to get into the best shape of his life....better than Pat Riley shape.

And the probability of any of that happening is probably negative 50 million percent.

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2008, 01:51:03 PM »

Offline PSquared

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He looked about 50 pounds over weight when we saw him on the sidelines. He would have been a good Celtic if he could get his ego and appetite under control.. It's kinda sad - he seems like a good guy.

Pete



50 pounds overweight, you say?  Doesn't look like it to me. You must've mistook Big Baby Davis for Toine for some reason.




Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2008, 01:59:03 PM »

Offline PSquared

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Only way Toine is back is under extreme conditions.

First C's need to be a little bit desperate.

They don't need to be desperate to do this.  Past experience shows that Toine *can* jumpstart this team if it was floundering(see 2005 season) so it wouldn't really be that much of a stretch that he could help the C's again if need be.

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Second, Toine needs to lower his ego and be humble...even apologize to Danny for the "snake" comment (even though it was true at the time)...and accept a limited role off the bench.

First off, that "snake" comment came after the first trade.  When he came back the 2nd time around and was traded to Miami(where he won a title), I think it was safe to say that Antoine took back the "snake" comment awhile ago.   And Antoine has shown he can contribute in a limited role off the bench when he played for Miami. 


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Third, he'd need to get into the best shape of his life....better than Pat Riley shape.

He didn't need to be in Pat Riley shape to win a championship, now did he?  He did just fine being the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA Finals behind DWade.  Plus, why would you harp on him having to get into shape when you have got the Human Michelin Man in BBD on your team?   What about him?  I'd refer to him as BIG FATSO instead of Baby, actually....



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And the probability of any of that happening is probably negative 50 million percent.

That's what everyone said in '05...look what happened then.   Never say never.


Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2008, 02:15:07 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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I'm a Toine guy, but I have to admit that he looked huge when I saw him at the Finals game in the Garden. 

Even though he has history with this team, I'm guessing that management would view him the same as any other bargain veteran ring chaser if Toine gets a buyout.  He's not a great fit with this roster's needs, as mentioned in earlier posts, so I don't see Walker on the Cs next year. 

With Pruitt, Baby, Scal and a first round draft pick this year, spots 11-15 on the roster are already taken. There's not a lot of room on their roster, and there really isn't a need for his (diminishing) skills.  If there was a late in the year need for a guy to fill a roster spot, I'd love to see Walker back.  He could provide some leadership with our young bigs, as PJ Brown has done since he's arrived, but Toine certainly isn't needed on the Cs roster.   

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2008, 04:56:30 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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Only way Toine is back is under extreme conditions.

First C's need to be a little bit desperate.

They don't need to be desperate to do this.  Past experience shows that Toine *can* jumpstart this team if it was floundering(see 2005 season) so it wouldn't really be that much of a stretch that he could help the C's again if need be.

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Second, Toine needs to lower his ego and be humble...even apologize to Danny for the "snake" comment (even though it was true at the time)...and accept a limited role off the bench.

First off, that "snake" comment came after the first trade.  When he came back the 2nd time around and was traded to Miami(where he won a title), I think it was safe to say that Antoine took back the "snake" comment awhile ago.   And Antoine has shown he can contribute in a limited role off the bench when he played for Miami. 


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Third, he'd need to get into the best shape of his life....better than Pat Riley shape.

He didn't need to be in Pat Riley shape to win a championship, now did he?  He did just fine being the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA Finals behind DWade.  Plus, why would you harp on him having to get into shape when you have got the Human Michelin Man in BBD on your team?   What about him?  I'd refer to him as BIG FATSO instead of Baby, actually....



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And the probability of any of that happening is probably negative 50 million percent.

That's what everyone said in '05...look what happened then.   Never say never.



Yes, all that did happen in the past and Toine deserves all the credit for being a Champion for the Heat but for him to come back to Boston it would take a miracle.

C's need to run out of options and still need to want veteran bench guys who have had experience in the playoffs before.

I just don't see the C's going out of their way to invite Toine back....in fact, Toine may have to go out of his way to show how much he wants to come back and retire a Celtic which is why he would have to do all of those things I stated before.

Re: Dare I say it...Antoine?
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2008, 07:11:34 PM »

Offline PSquared

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I'm a Toine guy, but I have to admit that he looked huge when I saw him at the Finals game in the Garden. 

Are you sure he looked "huge" as you say or was it perhaps just the angle in which you were sitting that he seemed that way? 

There is no way that a person(any person) can gain 50 additional pounds in such a short time unless he's a sumo wrestler-in-training.  lol.    ;D



SEE?   ;D ;D ;D


Anyway, I tend to think that all of you harping on him "looking overweight" are exaggerating to the highest degree just to help re-enforce your opinions on why Toine won't be brought back....as if the OTHER more *VALID* reasons weren't true enough.   ::)

And anyway.....BBD makes Toine look like Arnold Schwartzenager in his prime so I wouldn't really harp too much on Toine's "physique" if I were you guys. 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 07:17:12 PM by PSquared »