House to T. Allen Ally

[winsomme]

With his bird rights and RFA, and the fact that he should be 100% healthy (and the fact that he can sit on the end of the bench and not play without causing problems) TA should be brought back.

C's only have so many avenues to get players in here, MLE, LLE, Bird Rights, Trades, Draft: TA is at least good enough to be on the bench and useful fill in, and he's effectively free (assuming the owners aren't worried about money.)

That being said: C's 100% should look to upgrade everywhere possible, while we fans are in love with the guys on the team, consolidating 10 5's into two 10's got us KG and RA. Consolidating a couple 3/4 bench players into a 6 would strengthen us. The competition won't rest on it's laurels, neither should the C's.

Kind of funny that he is "effectively free" as long as the owners aren't worried about money. Doesn't sound free to me!!

If no one else will come here that is better than he is and take a similar amount of money, keeping him is not free. It takes a spot away from a better player that improves our squad. The debate on here is who a better player would be. I personally don't think it would be that hard to find someone.

We now will be a shoe in for free agents who want to try and get a ring that are willing to take a pay cut to do it. If we aren't successful in that search then fine. Resign him for peanuts. If not no big loss.

Lets do the math:

Roster spots:
1  KG
2  PP
3  Jesus
4  RR
5  Perk
6  Baby
7  Powe
8  Pruitt
9  Scal

Gone: Sam
Gone: PJ
Gone: Pollard

How can we fill the remaining 6 roster spots?
10 +1 player biannual exception
11 1st Round Draft pick (?) - if Euro, perhaps we keep this spot open another year as the play in foreign league.

The rest depend upon agreeing to contracts:

A. Bird Rights:
TA - bargain basement after weak season

B. Poss non-Bird rights:
House - probably limited interest across league

C. MLE:
Posey - might want a longer contract than we can wisely commit to due to high profile after great performance. If we sign him, it probably takes full MLE. If we don't sign posey, we could possible get more than one player with this.

D. Minimum contract players

Who are the veterans that you hope to sign for minimum contracts and for the biannual instead of TA?

#1 We do not absolutely have to carry 15 contracts. We didn't for much of  the year so that we had space available to sign at the end. (Sam and PJ)
#2 We will add 2 players in the draft which will bring us to 11.
#3 We resign Posey and House which gets us to 13

Are you telling me that there isn't 1 free agent that doesn't want to come to Boston on the cheap that is better than TA?! If not, then sign him for almost nothing. I just don't buy it. There will be people interested. I don't do anything though before I sign Posey. Who says we can't sign Pollard?! He should be completely healthy by next season and was not bad as a backup considering he was hurt. With the kind of shape that PJ is in I'm not 100% sure he won't be magically "available" come the signing deadline for us this next year as well.

One last thought. You're also assuming that Danny won't work some trade. I completely think that he will try and trade BBD or Powe (preferably BBD) in the offseason.

define "on the cheap" because we certainly would have to use up our exceptions (or most of them) to re-sign Posey and House. we also need another Big a la Pollard and later PJ and for a team that is going to be well over the salary cap , there really are not a lot of ways to sign FAs...

First of all I'd take another look at Theo considering he appears to be finally healed and can give us spot minutes at the backup center. He played for 200k last year. I'd consider Pollard again at next to nothing if he is healthy enough. Jamal Magloire is an option for cheap if he isn't. He played for 231k last year.

That's quite misleading, since Theo and Magloire signed those contracts because they got themselves a buyout, so they had money coming from somewhere else. Anyways, we have plenty of roster spots available, so wether we stay with Tony or not, we can still get these types of deals if and when they become available. Once again, it makes zero sense to let someone like Tony Allen go for nothing when you consider the little impact he has on the Celtics ability to acquire new players.

Also, these types of deals are more common towards the trade deadline, so we still have to play most of the year with a "thin" roster, and it's not always a guarantee that you'll be able to sign this guys. It's playing with fire, and a huge risk to bank on something like this to happen towards the end of the year.

Unless there's someone on hand to fill his spot and role, and add depth to our team, it makes no sense to just let him walk.

Wasn't trying to be misleading, just pointing out there are always decent options for cheap. There's 2 examples last year. There will be a couple this year. We have one thing that very few teams has, and that is a REALLY great shot at a ring. I just think that if we can bring someone else in with upside we are better off for the future. Sure they may not do much, but neither did/will TA. The only way I think signing him for cheap makes sense if we can't get House back in here. Then at a dirt cheap price I am fine with that. Otherwise someone else can take him for nothing. We don't lose anything by letting him walk either. He's not under contract.

but the two guys that you listed don't have upside and buyout players don't become available until late in the season.....

i think you are combing two concepts that don't really intersect. dirt cheap and upside....you're just not going to get the skill level of a Tony Allen at the prices you are talking about.

[cordobes]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go in order to allow the organization to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

This is the portion of the reasoning that many of you guys are using that baffles me completely. Why use a portion of the MLE to bring in some sort of subsitute instead of using it to fill actual needs the team has? We already got Tony. Sure, he's not the greatest player in the NBA, but he's more than serviceable, and quite good for the place he has in our rotation. There are few guys in the NBA that are end of the bench players, like Tony currently is for the Celtics, that are as good as him. People, this is what we call depth.

He's pretty much our utility player. He can play PG when injuries come, he is very useful as a SG being his natural position, and he even can spot some minutes in the SF position (against some matchups). He's quite valuable, especially during the course of a long season.

[cordobes]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

This is the portion of the reasoning that many of you guys are using that baffles me completely. Why use a portion of the MLE to bring in some sort of subsitute instead of using it to fill actual needs the team has? We already got Tony. Sure, he's not the greatest player in the NBA, but he's more than serviceable, and quite good for the place he has in our rotation. There are few guys in the NBA that are end of the bench players, like Tony currently is for the Celtics, that are as good as him. People, this is what we call depth.

Because resigning Posey + resigning House + resigning Allen + using the MLE to fill needs + keeping a pair of ring-chaser veterans is not happening. Wyc is not Dolan (thank God). The qualifying offer for Tony Allen is $2,744,299 (no luxury tax considered). For much less, we can sign a equally good/better player.
   

[BudweiserCeltic]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

This is the portion of the reasoning that many of you guys are using that baffles me completely. Why use a portion of the MLE to bring in some sort of subsitute instead of using it to fill actual needs the team has? We already got Tony. Sure, he's not the greatest player in the NBA, but he's more than serviceable, and quite good for the place he has in our rotation. There are few guys in the NBA that are end of the bench players, like Tony currently is for the Celtics, that are as good as him. People, this is what we call depth.

Because resigning Posey + resigning House + resigning Allen + using the MLE to fill needs + keep a pair of veterans is not happening. Wyc is not Dolan (thank God). The qualifying offer for Tony Allen is $2,744,299 (no luxury tax considered). For much less, we can sign a equally good/better player.
   

Who says it's not happening? I'm talking here about what's best for this team. Now, if the owners have other thing in mind, like saving some money for their their pockets, that's a whole different issue. But as far as basketball is concerned, it doesn't make sense.

But seriously, why isn't it happening? It wasn't long ago that people were calling Wyc cheap, and then this season came along and he seemed more than willing to go into tax-land.

[cordobes]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

This is the portion of the reasoning that many of you guys are using that baffles me completely. Why use a portion of the MLE to bring in some sort of subsitute instead of using it to fill actual needs the team has? We already got Tony. Sure, he's not the greatest player in the NBA, but he's more than serviceable, and quite good for the place he has in our rotation. There are few guys in the NBA that are end of the bench players, like Tony currently is for the Celtics, that are as good as him. People, this is what we call depth.

Because resigning Posey + resigning House + resigning Allen + using the MLE to fill needs + keep a pair of veterans is not happening. Wyc is not Dolan (thank God). The qualifying offer for Tony Allen is $2,744,299 (no luxury tax considered). For much less, we can sign a equally good/better player.
   

Who says it's not happening? I'm talking here about what's best for this team. Now, if the owners have other thing in mind, like saving some money for their their pockets, that's a whole different issue. But as far as basketball is concerned, it doesn't make sense.

But seriously, why isn't it happening? It wasn't long ago that people were calling Wyc cheap, and then this season came along and he seemed more than willing to go into tax-land.

We'll be in tax-land no matter what. And Wyc is definitely not cheap. But is it smart business to pay $2.75M to a player like Tony Allen when you're already above the luxury tax threshold? Can't we find a better deal? 

[BudweiserCeltic]

If Posey eats up the MLE and no trades are made, of course TA is staying. No way we can fill the rest of the bench with minimum contracts vets, a rookie and a LLE player for the next two years.

If Posey resigns with the non-Bird exception, that's a different story... he'll probably go to get some relieve in the luxury tax situation and we'll use part of the MLE to bring in a substitute, probably later in the season.   

This is the portion of the reasoning that many of you guys are using that baffles me completely. Why use a portion of the MLE to bring in some sort of subsitute instead of using it to fill actual needs the team has? We already got Tony. Sure, he's not the greatest player in the NBA, but he's more than serviceable, and quite good for the place he has in our rotation. There are few guys in the NBA that are end of the bench players, like Tony currently is for the Celtics, that are as good as him. People, this is what we call depth.

Because resigning Posey + resigning House + resigning Allen + using the MLE to fill needs + keep a pair of veterans is not happening. Wyc is not Dolan (thank God). The qualifying offer for Tony Allen is $2,744,299 (no luxury tax considered). For much less, we can sign a equally good/better player.
   

Who says it's not happening? I'm talking here about what's best for this team. Now, if the owners have other thing in mind, like saving some money for their their pockets, that's a whole different issue. But as far as basketball is concerned, it doesn't make sense.

But seriously, why isn't it happening? It wasn't long ago that people were calling Wyc cheap, and then this season came along and he seemed more than willing to go into tax-land.

We'll be in tax-land no matter what. And Wyc is definitely not cheap. But is it smart business to pay $2.75M to a player like Tony Allen when you're already above the luxury tax threshold? Can't we find a better deal? 

The thing is that you guys are assuming that players of Tony's skillset are just going to fall into our laps at bargain prices. It doesn't make sense to assume that because people like Tony are not cheap, especially when signing these guys as opposed to Tony will take away our ability to sign better players in positions that we really need, like back-up PG and C.

If a better deal comes along, sure... but it's quite a long shot, and many of you are talking as if it were a done deal that we can find an afforable AND better player than Tony. I find it quite unrealistic. Even so, I think that Tony Allen could have plenty of trade value, especially if you package him with a combination of Scal/Baby + draft picks, or whatever.

In my eyes, there's too much value in keeping him, as cheap as I think he'll be, to just let him walk just because we find a replacement or not.

[Sweet17]

TA is woefully underrated around Celtic nation, IMHO. I'd take him over most of the Lakers bench. We should try to resign him while his value is unnaturally low because of his injury.

[blueygreen]

Back to the topic at hand, does anyone have a video of the ally-oop? That and the BBD dunk would be great to see.

I also love how a number of members just believe that a player better than Tony is just going to magically appear and play for us at a bargain price. Pietrus is the only player immediately comes to mind, and I think he's going to be commanding a lot more than 2.75m, and that also means no Posey. I'm quite happy with Tony being back. When he has consistent minutes and knows his role in the team he does well. He's really slept on in my opinion.

How long ago was it when people were suggesting that Tony start and Ray be the 6th man? 

[bucknersrevenge]

ok just saying what if we drafted bill walker, or jr giddens in the 2nd rnd. 2 guys that are known to have good defensive potential, good size, and theyre gonna be cheaper than tony. what then? sure i can see the benefit to keeping a tony and i like the kid personally. but i still say there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding his future.

[Bahku]

It was great that Doc gave Tony and Big Baby an opportunity to play in this championship game ... that was truly a classy move by the coach. The icing on the cake was that they each got to contribute in a positive way, with Tony getting in a long-awaited dunk, and Big Baby dribbling the length of the court and finishing by himself! Both plays were really great highlights, and they may never get the chance again ... especially TA ... and I think he realized that. I'm extremely happy for all the guys on this team ... what an amazing season to be part of!

[Who]

TA is woefully underrated around Celtic nation, IMHO. I'd take him over most of the Lakers bench. We should try to resign him while his value is unnaturally low because of his injury.

You're thinking of a long term contract for Tony?

I don't really want a long term deal because of his injury history. I'd rather he got through another season without serious issues first. I do agree that Tony Allen is woefully underrated by many.

[EJPLAYA]

What I am saying is that TA isn't going to sign for 700k. It makes no sense as has been stated here to sign the guy for 3 mil and then be in a situation where we can't sign someone else if the opportunity comes along. Obviously there is a difference in opinion on his abilities. No one can argue though that an out of control, dribbling challenged SG who can't shoot from the outside isn't someone to lock up for that kind of money. I have said numerous times that if he wants to sign for the bottom basement prices then fine. It is worth the gamble that his athleticism will return. When he was first out he was so unusually athletic that it overcame his deficiencies due to his defense and hops to finish at the rim. He is half that player now. Now his deficiencies are much more obvious.

He is the SG version of everyone's complaint of Scal. If he doesn't cost us an opportunity, then fine. If we can get someone that appears to have more upside then great. Remember, we got Eddie House last year for 1.5 mil. There was no buyout, just a guy wanting to be part of a championship team. He was 1000 times more valuable then TA at half the price. That's what my point is. We don't know who is available out there yet, but there will be someone.

Considering Theo and Jamal aren't going to be getting paid much anywhere, especially Theo, he may decide one more year with a chance at a championship is better than just retiring.

[winsomme]

What I am saying is that TA isn't going to sign for 700k. It makes no sense as has been stated here to sign the guy for 3 mil and then be in a situation where we can't sign someone else if the opportunity comes along. Obviously there is a difference in opinion on his abilities. No one can argue though that an out of control, dribbling challenged SG who can't shoot from the outside isn't someone to lock up for that kind of money. I have said numerous times that if he wants to sign for the bottom basement prices then fine. It is worth the gamble that his athleticism will return. When he was first out he was so unusually athletic that it overcame his deficiencies due to his defense and hops to finish at the rim. He is half that player now. Now his deficiencies are much more obvious.

He is the SG version of everyone's complaint of Scal. If he doesn't cost us an opportunity, then fine. If we can get someone that appears to have more upside then great. Remember, we got Eddie House last year for 1.5 mil. There was no buyout, just a guy wanting to be part of a championship team. He was 1000 times more valuable then TA at half the price. That's what my point is. We don't know who is available out there yet, but there will be someone.

Considering Theo and Jamal aren't going to be getting paid much anywhere, especially Theo, he may decide one more year with a chance at a championship is better than just retiring.

but signing TA for 3 million doesn't use up any means for us to sign another player....

[BudweiserCeltic]

What I am saying is that TA isn't going to sign for 700k. It makes no sense as has been stated here to sign the guy for 3 mil and then be in a situation where we can't sign someone else if the opportunity comes along. Obviously there is a difference in opinion on his abilities. No one can argue though that an out of control, dribbling challenged SG who can't shoot from the outside isn't someone to lock up for that kind of money. I have said numerous times that if he wants to sign for the bottom basement prices then fine. It is worth the gamble that his athleticism will return. When he was first out he was so unusually athletic that it overcame his deficiencies due to his defense and hops to finish at the rim. He is half that player now. Now his deficiencies are much more obvious.

He is the SG version of everyone's complaint of Scal. If he doesn't cost us an opportunity, then fine. If we can get someone that appears to have more upside then great. Remember, we got Eddie House last year for 1.5 mil. There was no buyout, just a guy wanting to be part of a championship team. He was 1000 times more valuable then TA at half the price. That's what my point is. We don't know who is available out there yet, but there will be someone.

Considering Theo and Jamal aren't going to be getting paid much anywhere, especially Theo, he may decide one more year with a chance at a championship is better than just retiring.

but signing TA for 3 million doesn't use up any means for us to sign another player....

Exactly, I don't know how many times I have to mention this, but keeping TA doesn't prevent the Celtics from getting anyone else that may be in their radar. The only thing that it affects is the owner's willingness to spend, but that's a different issue completely and it's quite impossible to speculate on what their standing on the issue of spending money is. After a championship that probably racked in a ton of revenue for the team, I leaning towards them not caring much about what they have to spend in order to field a great team.