Trading Ray in his last year-should it be done?

[Onslaught]

Wow. This guy played great in the Finals and we're talking about trading him? I'm sure KG and Paul wouldn't approve of that. We can't/won't get anyone better for him. This team will have to rebuilt in a few years one way or the other. I'd rather run with what we have now.

[Chief]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

This was my original post about a month ago. And although I admire Pierce, a lot more now then when I posted it, I say trade them. Ray this summer and Paul in about 2 years. The NBA is a business and players get traded. It sometimes hurts as fans, but so does following a losing team for almost 2 decades.

Let's just pretend that Cleveland beat the C's this year. Ray Allen's trade value would be zilch. My big fear is that at Ray's age, he could start declining fast. Next year, he could look like the Cleveland series Ray more and more. At that point Danny would be lucky to get Stephon Marbury for him.

OK, I get the point but to break this team up so soon, I'd need to see something better in return.  I know Ray & KG came with the "can't win" tag before this season, but they brought a little bit more in the success category to the table than any of the Knickerbockers you proposed.

The Knicks thing was only a suggestion and I'd be all for getting something better. The main point is that I don't want Paul, KG, and Ray to play out the rest of their careers as Celtics. I want Danny to trade them, before he can't unload them, so he can make this team a championship contender for years. And I truly believe that this summer is the time to unload Ray.

[reggie35]

I like sentimentality.  I want to keep our guys, especially heading into next season.

Let's win the next two, and then if it's another 22 years between titles, I can deal.

Right on!

In all seriousness, Ray can still be a productive shooter. Look at Reggie Miller. Especially the team is using him, he will be useful. Maybe not worth all the money but useful.

[Robb]

Basketball wise, it's a good idea to deal these guys before they breakdown and while we can get value.  Michael Redd is supposedly available.  I think he brings a lot to the table that Ray Allen did, but then again, I think it's a little too soon to deal them all.

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

Even if we trade Ray for another All-Star who's contract lasts longer than Ray's which is the whole point in trading him, then how do we pay Rajon Rondo if he becomes an All-Star? I doubt we will be able to afford 4-All-Star max (or near max) salaries. No way should we trade Ray this year for anything less and ruin our chances of repeating. Ray is only 33 next year. That's still the tail-end of his prime -- especially for shooters. He should have another couple years of being at least a borderline All-Star, especially considering his Obsessive Compulsive pregame routine.

[Onslaught]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

This was my original post about a month ago. And although I admire Pierce, a lot more now then when I posted it, I say trade them. Ray this summer and Paul in about 2 years. The NBA is a business and players get traded. It sometimes hurts as fans, but so does following a losing team for almost 2 decades.

Let's just pretend that Cleveland beat the C's this year. Ray Allen's trade value would be zilch. My big fear is that at Ray's age, he could start declining fast. Next year, he could look like the Cleveland series Ray more and more. At that point Danny would be lucky to get Stephon Marbury for him.

OK, I get the point but to break this team up so soon, I'd need to see something better in return.  I know Ray & KG came with the "can't win" tag before this season, but they brought a little bit more in the success category to the table than any of the Knickerbockers you proposed.

The Knicks thing was only a suggestion and I'd be all for getting something better. The main point is that I don't want Paul, KG, and Ray to play out the rest of their careers as Celtics. I want Danny to trade them, before he can't unload them, so he can make this team a championship contender for years. And I truly believe that this summer is the time to unload Ray.

I'm sorry but that's NOT the Celtic way of doing things. It's one of the reasons I love this team and it's history. Paul will and should retire a Celtic. Would you have traded Bird too?
KG came to this team because of Ray and Paul and we should turn around and dump them? I can live with a 2-3 year run and then another 22 years of sucking if that's what it takes.
 

[Chief]

How about KG for Marbury? We need a backup point guard right?

Haha

Wow. This guy played great in the Finals and we're talking about trading him? I'm sure KG and Paul wouldn't approve of that.

And he played awful against Cleveland. It's a business and guys we like get traded. Many Celtics fans did not like trading Big AL, but most are real glad Danny did now.

I think he brings a lot to the table that Ray Allen did, but then again, I think it's a little too soon to deal them all.

I never said, "deal them all this summer". I said deal Ray this summer and Paul in a few years.

[Onslaught]

You sure you're not a Lakers fan?

[Roy Hobbs]

We're getting close to that line where disagreement turns into disrespect.  Let's back off a bit, please.

[Onslaught]

Sorry. I just don't get it!

[Fan from VT]

At this point i prefer sentimentality as well. I certainly would tend to not trade Ray to a team he wouldn't enjoy.

However, others have made good points, and it's a discussion worth having. Ray definitely dropped off a bit this year, and really looked ragged in the playoffs until the finals. With that finals performance, his stock may be a bit artificially inflated. We got very lucky with injuries to our stars this year, and we may be thinner next year as brown and cassell leave, and probably one of house/posey as well. Age wise we are similar to where the spurs are now (just with one title to their 4), and they've really started to look slow; the consensus is they may not have balanced bringing up youth while contending. It's a very tricky question to figure out when to cut loose a great player, well liked by teammates, in order to think a couple years ahead and avoid sticking with a guy once he's over the hill and has diminished production and trade value.

Turning my eyes to the general following of the upcoming draft, I was intrigued by this nugget from Chad Ford:

The Phoenix Suns have put Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw on the table in attempts to either move up in the draft or secure another veteran to play alongside Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal.

"I think our needs are pretty clear," one Suns insider told ESPN.com. "We can't ask Grant Hill to play 40 minutes a night, and Barbosa isn't really a point guard."

Considering that Allen is still considered a better individual talent than either diaw or barbosa, and considering that the latter two are under contract a year longer than Allen, I was thinking:

Barbosa, Diaw, #15

for

Allen, #30

This would knock about 2 mil off payroll (4 mill with tax), give us a wider spread of contracts, instead of 3 max's and small ones, would satisfy the pg minutes rondo can't play, would allow us a better chance of nabbing a useful rookie, would make the C's younger, and provide an interesting athletic and versatile player who can defend and likes to pass the ball in diaw.

From Phoenix's side, they are all in with Nash and Shaq. They'd love Ray and his distance shooting, and Ray might enjoy playing with those two.

[Brickowski]

Considering that Allen is still considered a better individual talent than either diaw or barbosa, and considering that the latter two are under contract a year longer than Allen, I was thinking:

Barbosa, Diaw, #15

for

Allen, #30

This would knock about 2 mil off payroll (4 mill with tax), give us a wider spread of contracts, instead of 3 max's and small ones, would satisfy the pg minutes rondo can't play, would allow us a better chance of nabbing a useful rookie, would make the C's younger, and provide an interesting athletic and versatile player who can defend and likes to pass the ball in diaw.

Why Would Phoenix do that?  Diaw is a very underrated player.  The Celtics should jump as this, but it's not realistic.

[Fan from VT]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

This was my original post about a month ago. And although I admire Pierce, a lot more now then when I posted it, I say trade them. Ray this summer and Paul in about 2 years. The NBA is a business and players get traded. It sometimes hurts as fans, but so does following a losing team for almost 2 decades.

Let's just pretend that Cleveland beat the C's this year. Ray Allen's trade value would be zilch. My big fear is that at Ray's age, he could start declining fast. Next year, he could look like the Cleveland series Ray more and more. At that point Danny would be lucky to get Stephon Marbury for him.

OK, I get the point but to break this team up so soon, I'd need to see something better in return.  I know Ray & KG came with the "can't win" tag before this season, but they brought a little bit more in the success category to the table than any of the Knickerbockers you proposed.

The Knicks thing was only a suggestion and I'd be all for getting something better. The main point is that I don't want Paul, KG, and Ray to play out the rest of their careers as Celtics. I want Danny to trade them, before he can't unload them, so he can make this team a championship contender for years. And I truly believe that this summer is the time to unload Ray.

I'm sorry but that's NOT the Celtic way of doing things. It's one of the reasons I love this team and it's history. Paul will and should retire a Celtic. Would you have traded Bird too?
KG came to this team because of Ray and Paul and we should turn around and dump them? I can live with a 2-3 year run and then another 22 years of sucking if that's what it takes.
 

completely agree about Pierce. He should play every season of his career for Boston. But Ray and KG don't have quite the historical connection, so for them we can balance sentimentality with practicality.

[Chief]

When I was a kid, my dad use to blast the Celtics for keeping McHale and Parish too long. He'd tell me that if they keep them until they past their prime, their trade value will be nothing. Being a kid, I thought he was stupid because I was being loyal.

Having said that and suffering for nearly 22 years, I say trade Pierce and Allen (in a year or two) and keep a winning team for years to come.

This was my original post about a month ago. And although I admire Pierce, a lot more now then when I posted it, I say trade them. Ray this summer and Paul in about 2 years. The NBA is a business and players get traded. It sometimes hurts as fans, but so does following a losing team for almost 2 decades.

Let's just pretend that Cleveland beat the C's this year. Ray Allen's trade value would be zilch. My big fear is that at Ray's age, he could start declining fast. Next year, he could look like the Cleveland series Ray more and more. At that point Danny would be lucky to get Stephon Marbury for him.

OK, I get the point but to break this team up so soon, I'd need to see something better in return.  I know Ray & KG came with the "can't win" tag before this season, but they brought a little bit more in the success category to the table than any of the Knickerbockers you proposed.

The Knicks thing was only a suggestion and I'd be all for getting something better. The main point is that I don't want Paul, KG, and Ray to play out the rest of their careers as Celtics. I want Danny to trade them, before he can't unload them, so he can make this team a championship contender for years. And I truly believe that this summer is the time to unload Ray.

I'm sorry but that's NOT the Celtic way of doing things. It's one of the reasons I love this team and it's history. Paul will and should retire a Celtic. Would you have traded Bird too?
KG came to this team because of Ray and Paul and we should turn around and dump them? I can live with a 2-3 year run and then another 22 years of sucking if that's what it takes.
 

For the record, I would not have traded Bird. But knowing what I know now, I would have traded McHale and Parish after the Celtics lost to the Knicks in the first round in 1990. McHale was 32 at the time and Parish was 36.

[Chief]

You sure you're not a Lakers fan?

 

We're getting close to that line where disagreement turns into disrespect.  Let's back off a bit, please.

TP