Paul Pierce's maturity / gang signs? (merged)

[crownsy]

and chief, if he made a gang sign on antional TV and isn't in that gang, thats the dumbest thing of all time. Thats a good way to get killed.

I for one don't belive paul's that stupid.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have a very close associate who deals in this material, ran it by him, and he said that if it is a gang sign, it's one that he's never come across in his 18+ years of dealing with this stuff.

The hand gesture of Pierce is fairly close to the "gang sign" of the Piru Bloods; ask your associate if he's familiar with them.  They're one of the Blood gangs out of Compton (and I believe Inglewood, as well), and Suge Knight is one of their more famous members.

Again, none of us know what Pierce's intent was.  I agree he should be assumed innocent, but it is comical to me that people on both sides of this debate are so sure they know exactly what Pierce was thinking.  It *must* be a gang sign because he's a punk from Inglewood who got stabbed.  It must *not* be a gang sign because he's a Celtic, and the gesture looked vaguely like another player holding up the number three.  None of us know, so let's stop pretending like we do.

[nickagneta]

I nominate this as the most ridiculous thread ever. Not only because it's inherently stupid, but because of the racial politics that underlie it, that have given it impetus. A black player makes an ambigious hand gesture? Well, obviously it's a gang sign. A black player gets angry about something and expresses himself? Well, obviously it's a sign of his immaturity and thuggery. Thank God the level-headed, reasonable white guy (Scalabrine) was there to put an end to it, otherwise we would have had Watts '65 on our hands. Honestly.

while I don't like going to the race card all that often, you probably have a good point. No one would assume anything of this hand gesture if wally szcerbiak was making it.

Back in the 80's the celtics use to get in full-on brawls, and we have what I would assume are fans of the older celtics getting all worked up over paul pierce throwing up a "3" with his hand. larry bird once choked Dr. J, and we have fans like Andy Jick jumping down paul pierce's throat for walking in the general direction of the other team, and using a hand gesture. simply ludicrous.

Actually I would assume that it's the younger guys accusing Paul of using a gang sign and starting this stuff. Most of us older guys probably didn't even know that gang hand gestures actually existed.


Also, let's not go the racial route it'll open up a discussion that will get locked within seconds.


On the other hand maybe it will get this ridiculous thread locked.

[quidinqui33]

If I remember correctly, Robert Parish went nuts on lambeer in a playoff series.  Several blows to the back of the head.  That is one of my favorite Parish moments.

Why so hard on the team of today, when we hold these momemts from the past in such high regard?

It's heated playoff basketball!

[CelticsWhat35]

I nominate this as the most ridiculous thread ever. Not only because it's inherently stupid, but because of the racial politics that underlie it, that have given it impetus. A black player makes an ambigious hand gesture? Well, obviously it's a gang sign. A black player gets angry about something and expresses himself? Well, obviously it's a sign of his immaturity and thuggery. Thank God the level-headed, reasonable white guy (Scalabrine) was there to put an end to it, otherwise we would have had Watts '65 on our hands. Honestly.

Absolutely.  And for those who said we shouldn't bring up race in this thread for fear of it being locked, this thread should've been locked a long time ago.

[Bahku]

I have a very close associate who deals in this material, ran it by him, and he said that if it is a gang sign, it's one that he's never come across in his 18+ years of dealing with this stuff.

The hand gesture of Pierce is fairly close to the "gang sign" of the Piru Bloods; ask your associate if he's familiar with them.  They're one of the Blood gangs out of Compton (and I believe Inglewood, as well), and Suge Knight is one of their more famous members.

Again, none of us know what Pierce's intent was.  I agree he should be assumed innocent, but it is comical to me that people on both sides of this debate are so sure they know exactly what Pierce was thinking.  It *must* be a gang sign because he's a punk from Inglewood who got stabbed.  It must *not* be a gang sign because he's a Celtic, and the gesture looked vaguely like another player holding up the number three.  None of us know, so let's stop pretending like we do.

I give ... I want no more of this conversation ... I can't take watching Celtics fans trash our own captain without proof that he's done anything. Peace out!

[FLCeltsFan]

And there has never been a player who deserved those punches from Parish more than Bill Laimbeer.....

[chrismihm]

to respond to the notion that this is racist... someone said its racist because if scal had doen it, we wouldnt be saying this.  well, scal is from needham, mass, right?  paul is from inglewood.  big difference, the race thing is silly. 

anyway, this is useless, we have no idea what he was indicating.  pauls badass, and will embarrass horford tonight, thats somethign we can all agree on right?

[nickagneta]

I have a very close associate who deals in this material, ran it by him, and he said that if it is a gang sign, it's one that he's never come across in his 18+ years of dealing with this stuff.

The hand gesture of Pierce is fairly close to the "gang sign" of the Piru Bloods; ask your associate if he's familiar with them.  They're one of the Blood gangs out of Compton (and I believe Inglewood, as well), and Suge Knight is one of their more famous members.

Again, none of us know what Pierce's intent was.  I agree he should be assumed innocent, but it is comical to me that people on both sides of this debate are so sure they know exactly what Pierce was thinking.  It *must* be a gang sign because he's a punk from Inglewood who got stabbed.  It must *not* be a gang sign because he's a Celtic, and the gesture looked vaguely like another player holding up the number three.  None of us know, so let's stop pretending like we do.

That sign involves a curling of another finger and actually spells the first three letters, (blo), of the word "blood", and is not the same gesture at all. Somehow, in asking him, I don't think he would he leave out one of the largest gangs on the West Coast ... but hey, maybe he just enjoys baiting me into looking like a fool, and truly knows nothing about it. Regardless of the fact that my posts carry no weight or integrity, Pierce should be given the benefit of the doubt, and be presumed innocent, until such time as he's been proven to have flashed a "gang" sign, and have intended it as such. Why are there so many willing to throw our own captain under the bus, before knowing the true extent of this story? I don't get it, and it just does not feel right to me. (But who the heck am I, anyway?)

TP4U Bahku, and don't sell the importance of your opinion short. Last I checked every opinion and every vote in this country counts for something.

Unless of course you live in Florida.

But the point is something I've been saying and thinking all along. This is our Captain. Only Paul knows what was going through his mind and what he was doing with his hand for those whole 3 seconds. All this speculation is absurd considering no one, as Roy said above, knows for sure what Pierce was doing. And we will never find out for sure.

So let's cutthe Captain some slack here and remember he is only human and responded to an of disrespect upon his person. I'm sure all of us would have acted in about the same manner.

[Andrew Celtic Nation]

to respond to the notion that this is racist... someone said its racist because if scal had doen it, we wouldnt be saying this.  well, scal is from needham, mass, right?  paul is from inglewood.  big difference, the race thing is silly. 

anyway, this is useless, we have no idea what he was indicating.  pauls badass, and will embarrass horford tonight, thats somethign we can all agree on right?

Scal is from Long Beach Cali, he went to USC. If we are going by where they reside during the regular season than Paul Pierce must be a Lincoln, Mass resident. Im not getting involved in the race discussion but Scal is not a Mass native.

[klg05]

Oh My God, Bahku!!  I just noticed that picture at the bottom of your post of Paul Pierce!  The one that says "You can't handle the Truth!"  Look what he's doing!  I am sure that is a gang sign! And he's using BOTH HANDS!   And he is blowing on them!  That is really bad!

That is how ridiculous this whole thing sounds!

[CelticHooligan3]

It should be noted that as previously staed by a fellow poster in Paul Pierces Beyond the Glory it was said that one of the reasons he was stabbed in that nightclub a while ago was because he initially said "What up Blood" to the wrong person or memeber of a different gang. The smallest things like that can be taken as threats and insults and in their world are grounds for fighting even dieing for.

[Steve Weinman]

I have a very close associate who deals in this material, ran it by him, and he said that if it is a gang sign, it's one that he's never come across in his 18+ years of dealing with this stuff.

The hand gesture of Pierce is fairly close to the "gang sign" of the Piru Bloods; ask your associate if he's familiar with them.  They're one of the Blood gangs out of Compton (and I believe Inglewood, as well), and Suge Knight is one of their more famous members.

Again, none of us know what Pierce's intent was.  I agree he should be assumed innocent, but it is comical to me that people on both sides of this debate are so sure they know exactly what Pierce was thinking.  It *must* be a gang sign because he's a punk from Inglewood who got stabbed.  It must *not* be a gang sign because he's a Celtic, and the gesture looked vaguely like another player holding up the number three.  None of us know, so let's stop pretending like we do.

With ya once more, RH -- particularly regarding my astonishment at the amount of certainty going both ways on this one, to which you alluded.

As I talked about in today's overly lengthy Daily Babble on precisely this subject (http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2950&Itemid=241), I choose to give PP the benefit of the doubt on what the 'signal' meant, but only because it's what I want to do.  Because, as Bahku started to point out, I'm a fan of this team, and one of the results of that is that I want to believe the best about these fellas whenever I can.  Since it seems fairly evident to me that the only person who knows what that three-fingered salute meant is Paul Pierce, I'm more than content to live in my bubble of hope that it had any of the other suggested meanings.  But in the words of Socrates, the only thing that I know is that I know nothing.

Now, as I also allude to in the column, whether or not it was necessary for Pierce to be making any gesture of any sort toward the Hawks -- or generally getting baited into responding by Horford -- is a completely different discussion.  But I can't bring myself to spend too much time really worrying about what the sign meant because of the lack of any possible certainty here.  Hope it wasn't a gang sign, because flashing gang signs isn't cool.  But since I'm a fan of Paul and his team, until I have reason to believe otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

-sw

[Andrew Celtic Nation]

The fact the people think pierce, a 30 year old that just started a family and has been in the league for 10 years, would have time to join a gang is beyond ridiculous.

Pierce has never gotten into any trouble for any off court actions in the his entire career as a celt.  No gun posession, no drugs, no dwi, no domestic abuse charges, no illegitimate children (that we know of).  He was a victim during the stabbing incident from some punks just trying to make a name by starting stuff with an NBA player and that was years ago.  You would think if the guy was a gangster, he would be getting into a little more trouble, don't you?

Pierce has put everything he has into this team for the past 10 years and has had a handful of on the court issues (the pacers series probably being the only truly boneheaded one) and people on this board, and even some of the guys on the CelticStuff live staff want to jump on him for any little thing he does wrong.  I just don't get it.

It's the people on these boards that sit around and judge people all day long that need to take a long look at themselves and make a change.  Not people like Pierce who work hard, and might get caught up in the competetive moment every now and then.

First, who said he joined a gang? Making gang signs and joining a gang are two different things.

Second, how do you know Pierce was just minding his own business when he got stabbed? I've never believed that.

Finally, I agree Pierce works hard but he needs to control his actions on the court.

At worst, Pierce was probably making a pass at another guy's girl before his stabbing. That is not much of an act that deserves being stabbed.

I just think this is being blown out of proportion. Noone has convinced me he was doing anything in that gesture other than the same "3" hand gesture he did in a different situation after the Texas sweep. Its not enough of a difference between the two to make me think otherwise. For fans of KG who glorify his intensity when it usually means cussing out the opponent with F words in front of young courtside fans to get himself riled up we sure have a quick trigger to get mad at Paul Pierce. Again, I know that issue has been brought up as well but never with the same venom as some Pierce arguments are.

[WillyBeamin]

I nominate this as the most ridiculous thread ever. Not only because it's inherently stupid, but because of the racial politics that underlie it, that have given it impetus. A black player makes an ambigious hand gesture? Well, obviously it's a gang sign. A black player gets angry about something and expresses himself? Well, obviously it's a sign of his immaturity and thuggery. Thank God the level-headed, reasonable white guy (Scalabrine) was there to put an end to it, otherwise we would have had Watts '65 on our hands. Honestly.

while I don't like going to the race card all that often, you probably have a good point. No one would assume anything of this hand gesture if wally szcerbiak was making it.

Back in the 80's the celtics use to get in full-on brawls, and we have what I would assume are fans of the older celtics getting all worked up over paul pierce throwing up a "3" with his hand. larry bird once choked Dr. J, and we have fans like Andy Jick jumping down paul pierce's throat for walking in the general direction of the other team, and using a hand gesture. simply ludicrous.

Actually I would assume that it's the younger guys accusing Paul of using a gang sign and starting this stuff. Most of us older guys probably didn't even know that gang hand gestures actually existed.


Also, let's not go the racial route it'll open up a discussion that will get locked within seconds.


On the other hand maybe it will get this ridiculous thread locked.

nick while we're both just speculating, a younger audience of fans probably loves paul pierce because he has been the best player on the team for 10 years, and would have a bit more loyalty to a guy who has been a member of the celtics for the majority of their time as a fan.

meanwhile other people who have been negative of pierce in this thread have icons of Parish and bird just for an example. they long for the days of the old NBA where players punched and choked as opposed to walking angrily towards the opposing teams bench. those guys in the 80's were just so much more mature.