Paul Pierce's maturity / gang signs? (merged)

[crownsy]

I've seen it multiple times. every time he's introduced in the pyrotechnic laden pre-game as a matter of fact. It really does come down to weather you think paul is a lair or not though. Especially now that he has come out and vehemently denied it.

So, if you think paul's a lair, thats your opinion and you are of course entitled to it, just as i am entitled to think that He's not a lair, and not that stupid. thats really the end of the discussion.

also EJ, just to comment on the close relatives thing, i have a close retaliative who got into drugs and screwed his life up pretty bad. I never got into drugs beyond screwing around with weed once or twice at collage. we  grew up on the same street , and were quite close growing up. Am i a drug addict in denial because my relation went to jail for a bit for drug related charges?

Guilt by association doesn't fly, you can't pick your family.

but that to is really a moot issue. The chocie is yours, belive him or don't, it's always up to you 

I give you big props and a TP to boot for keeping strong and not getting drug into that lifestyle. I will however point out that because of your association with them you could probably pick out drug paraphernalia pretty easy.  This is my point about PP. His family doesn't make him a gang member, but it sure would be hard for me to believe he doesn't know the signs. I grew up in Colorado Springs and I knew a sign or two!! As an adult and a visible role model to fans, he should be grown up enough to change his sign to something unrelated and not similar to something he knows is a gang sign.

There's just a lot more that points to him being guilty of it than points away from it. You are right about the choice being yours though. Your choice seems to be done through green shaded glasses though.

No one on either side of this believes he would admit that if it were true, so the denial means nothing. Everyone has got caught in a lie before and it usually happens when you aren't prepared for a question or you realize you have done something really stupid that you just can't own up to... Either way he should be thinking about what the kids think that might mean over his own immaturity.

thanks for the TP and words of support, luckily the person i speak off has gotten to a much better place as well

but to be honest, your view can be said to be through the same glasses, only from a different view point. as you point out here, you take for a fact that he would lie about it, and aren't willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

For all the talk of my green glasses putting him in one light, the things you list off here as strikes against him with no real back up other than its your opinion (which, as ive said, is certainly  valid , but it does leave you a bit open to flipping those glasses around) to assume you know that even if i knew for a fact that paul was lying that i would back his lie, show me that your looking at him from a different angle, not necessarily with more facts or proof then i have.

So were really back at our original starting place. I see him one way, you see him another, and nothing the other says is going to change the prescription of our respective glasses

[tenn_smoothie]

As a long-time Celtics fan (since the '69 title) ..........  it's bad enough that the Celtics franchise now behaves like every other franchise in the league with the light show and fireworks, the God-forsaken dancers along with the hip-hop music booming over the state-of-the-art sound system, not to mention the obnxious ear-busting game PA announcer .......... but now i have to read about our team captain possibly flashing a gang sign.

God Bless You Red and your philosophy of holding your team apart from the rest of the NBA - of making the Boston Celtics a special place to play where the game was what mattered and the extraneous, superficial flamboyance that was celebrated in other cities was looked down upon by your fans, your team, your players and coaches and your front office.

[LB3533]

1. Paul Pierce didn't come out right and say what his hand sign meant.

2. Danny Ainge came to Pierce's defense stating what he believed what Pierce's hand gesture meant.

3. If you have a team hand symbol, you use it within your team not directed at another OPPOSING player.

I am not calling Pierce a liar, but if and when he uses what Danny Ainge stated as the excuse for what his how hand gesture meant then I will call Pierce a liar.

[EJPLAYA]

I've seen it multiple times. every time he's introduced in the pyrotechnic laden pre-game as a matter of fact. It really does come down to weather you think paul is a lair or not though. Especially now that he has come out and vehemently denied it.

So, if you think paul's a lair, thats your opinion and you are of course entitled to it, just as i am entitled to think that He's not a lair, and not that stupid. thats really the end of the discussion.

also EJ, just to comment on the close relatives thing, i have a close retaliative who got into drugs and screwed his life up pretty bad. I never got into drugs beyond screwing around with weed once or twice at collage. we  grew up on the same street , and were quite close growing up. Am i a drug addict in denial because my relation went to jail for a bit for drug related charges?

Guilt by association doesn't fly, you can't pick your family.

but that to is really a moot issue. The chocie is yours, belive him or don't, it's always up to you 

I give you big props and a TP to boot for keeping strong and not getting drug into that lifestyle. I will however point out that because of your association with them you could probably pick out drug paraphernalia pretty easy.  This is my point about PP. His family doesn't make him a gang member, but it sure would be hard for me to believe he doesn't know the signs. I grew up in Colorado Springs and I knew a sign or two!! As an adult and a visible role model to fans, he should be grown up enough to change his sign to something unrelated and not similar to something he knows is a gang sign.

There's just a lot more that points to him being guilty of it than points away from it. You are right about the choice being yours though. Your choice seems to be done through green shaded glasses though.

No one on either side of this believes he would admit that if it were true, so the denial means nothing. Everyone has got caught in a lie before and it usually happens when you aren't prepared for a question or you realize you have done something really stupid that you just can't own up to... Either way he should be thinking about what the kids think that might mean over his own immaturity.

This means nothing! Not once has anyone on this thread ever said they thought PP was a member of a gang. He in fact is telling you that this sign was one of their signs. If it wasn't he would have said something to the effect of "That isn't even a gang sign that he made". He didn't. He said if PP had been a gang member it would have meant something. It's not about stereotyping. It is about mimicking the gesture.

Pretty hard up when you have to have a gang member stand up for the guy...

That's exactly my point, that he isn't a gang member so him doing a gang sign would be quite ridiculous.

Let me ask you this, hypothetically... let's say he knew the gang sign, but wasn't part of any gang (there's no evidence of any sort that he is, or that he admires them, or aspires to be one), what would be the purpose of doing the gang sign? I can't see any reason to do it. Do you?

So once again, just having access to the knowledge (you youself pointed out that knew a couple of signs) doesn't add up to anything.  The real issue here should be is Paul Pierce himself associated with gangs... if he isn't, then he deserves the benefit of the doubt from me and from you.  If later, it's found out that he was indeed part of them, then you can revisit his intentions in this case.  But until then, there's no reason to throw the man under the bus for a crappy sign and hand gesture that can be interpreted in a ton of different ways.

And actually, I think there's more pointing toward him not being guilty.  All you have is the vague crappy sign and him being related to someone who was in a gang.

He would do it to try and show that he was tough and not to mess with him. That's why. Why would he walk down towards the Hawk's bench when you knew he had no intention of starting a fight. To try and look tough. Same reason. You have to come up with an argument better than that if you want to dispel this notion. Come on!

You also have documented evidence that the sign he threw out there WAS a known gang sign. Funny how you only bring out the points you can cloud the waters with and ignore the ones that are quite potent against what you hope to be true.

[EJPLAYA]

I've seen it multiple times. every time he's introduced in the pyrotechnic laden pre-game as a matter of fact. It really does come down to weather you think paul is a lair or not though. Especially now that he has come out and vehemently denied it.

So, if you think paul's a lair, thats your opinion and you are of course entitled to it, just as i am entitled to think that He's not a lair, and not that stupid. thats really the end of the discussion.

also EJ, just to comment on the close relatives thing, i have a close retaliative who got into drugs and screwed his life up pretty bad. I never got into drugs beyond screwing around with weed once or twice at collage. we  grew up on the same street , and were quite close growing up. Am i a drug addict in denial because my relation went to jail for a bit for drug related charges?

Guilt by association doesn't fly, you can't pick your family.

but that to is really a moot issue. The chocie is yours, belive him or don't, it's always up to you 

I give you big props and a TP to boot for keeping strong and not getting drug into that lifestyle. I will however point out that because of your association with them you could probably pick out drug paraphernalia pretty easy.  This is my point about PP. His family doesn't make him a gang member, but it sure would be hard for me to believe he doesn't know the signs. I grew up in Colorado Springs and I knew a sign or two!! As an adult and a visible role model to fans, he should be grown up enough to change his sign to something unrelated and not similar to something he knows is a gang sign.

There's just a lot more that points to him being guilty of it than points away from it. You are right about the choice being yours though. Your choice seems to be done through green shaded glasses though.

No one on either side of this believes he would admit that if it were true, so the denial means nothing. Everyone has got caught in a lie before and it usually happens when you aren't prepared for a question or you realize you have done something really stupid that you just can't own up to... Either way he should be thinking about what the kids think that might mean over his own immaturity.

thanks for the TP and words of support, luckily the person i speak off has gotten to a much better place as well

but to be honest, your view can be said to be through the same glasses, only from a different view point. as you point out here, you take for a fact that he would lie about it, and aren't willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

For all the talk of my green glasses putting him in one light, the things you list off here as strikes against him with no real back up other than its your opinion (which, as ive said, is certainly  valid , but it does leave you a bit open to flipping those glasses around) to assume you know that even if i knew for a fact that paul was lying that i would back his lie, show me that your looking at him from a different angle, not necessarily with more facts or proof then i have.

So were really back at our original starting place. I see him one way, you see him another, and nothing the other says is going to change the prescription of our respective glasses

I'm glad to hear that TP for them as well!

As far as the glasses go. There is nothing I would like better than to not have to have the captain of my beloved Celtics be out there having to defend his actions. There is absolutely no need for that and it makes it tough for me to turn my kids into die hard C's fans like I am. I don't try to portray these athletes as good citizens and role models to my kids, however I shouldn't have to have them act like punks. Like it or not kids out there are going to look up to PP and I will bet you tons of cash there are kids right now flashing that sign he made trying to be cool like he was. The sad part is their example of cool is chasing down an opposing team's bench flashing "menacing gestures" whatever they might have been.

Many of you are probably thinking that we should just stop discussing this and really don't care whether he did it or not. Sweep it under the rug. The fact is though that this league, and all sports for that matter, is becoming a place where these kids come out and get to do whatever they want because they have some athletic talent. They never get punished. They just get rewarded with fans sticking up for them. The good guys, like Scal, who do a great amount of good and never cause a stir get ripped to shreds and booed because they aren't as talented. This is why we need to discuss this. Even if he is a Celtic. ESPECIALLY because he is a Celtic. Where is our Celtic Pride guys?!

[Bahku]

He's been fined, he issued a statement of apology, and did NOT make excuses, or side-step the issue. He took responsibility for his actions and apologized. This should be a "dead horse" at this point, and it's time to stop beating it. Issue has been resolved, and there's many more positive things to discuss than continuing to drag our captain through the mud. Playoff time, and we need to support our team. Time to move on.

[tenn_smoothie]

the real point here is why does Paul Pierce need to be making any signs at all - whatever the hell it meant.

just stick to the game Pierce and intimidate with your play - not your mouth and fingers !!!

[nickagneta]

How do you explain the video footage I provided that clearly shows Paul using the sign for the down low 5? How do you explain Danny saying he has been doing it pregame all year long? How do you explain the footage that proves Danny isn't wrong? How do you explain a reporter saying that the entire team has been using the gesture this year?

Check out my last post? Watch the video.

It is proof. So who to believe? You know my answer.

[TradeProposalDude]

I hate to spoil the "kumbayah" mojo of this thread, but there was no way that sign meant "blood sweat and tears." Are you kidding me people? I'm betting most of you grew up in sheltered suburban neighborhoods where gang culture was the subculture and not the "norm." I also understand that most of you idolize Pierce, feel that a guy who was stabbed 11 times in the face, neck, and back would not have the audacity to do such a thing... but don't blind yourself from REALITY. That was definitely a gang sign.

I'm not saying Pierce is a bad guy; I feel that he did it for effect (similar to people flashing their middle finger at someone) because he only had so much time to react after Scal quickly ushered him back to the bench.

It's water under the bridge since he's allegedly apologized and paid the fine. I'm just trying to clear the record though. If you think that meant blood sweat and tears, in the same context as the sign he uses during pregame intro's, then you are severely mistaken.

[Bahku]

He's been fined, he issued a statement of apology, and did NOT make excuses, or side-step the issue. He took responsibility for his actions and apologized. This should be a "dead horse" at this point, and it's time to stop beating it. Issue has been resolved, and there's many more positive things to discuss than continuing to drag our captain through the mud. Playoff time, and we need to support our team. Time to move on.

[nickagneta]

I hate to spoil the "kumbayah" mojo of this thread, but there was no way that sign meant "blood sweat and tears." Are you kidding me people? I'm betting most of you grew up in sheltered suburban neighborhoods where gang culture was the subculture and not the "norm." I also understand that most of you idolize Pierce, feel that a guy who was stabbed 11 times in the face, neck, and back would not have the audacity to do such a thing... but don't blind yourself from REALITY. That was definitely a gang sign.

I'm not saying Pierce is a bad guy; I feel that he did it for effect (similar to people flashing their middle finger at someone) because he only had so much time to react after Scal quickly ushered him back to the bench.

It's water under the bridge since he's allegedly apologized and paid the fine. I'm just trying to clear the record though. If you think that meant blood sweat and tears, in the same context as the sign he uses during pregame intro's, then you are severely mistaken.

Hate to spoil your assumption but I was born and lived in Everett and also lived in Chelsea and Dorchester. As a kid and teen I hung on the streets of all the above cities and South Boston.

And I don't believe that was a gang sign because Pierce said it wasn't and because he has been doing it all year during introductions.

Just because that hand sign is also a gang symbol does not mean he was using it in that manner.

[TradeProposalDude]

Hate to spoil your assumption but I was born and lived in Everett and also lived in Chelsea and Dorchester. As a kid and teen I hung on the streets of all the above cities and South Boston.

And I don't believe that was a gang sign because Pierce said it wasn't and because he has been doing it all year during introductions.

Just because that hand sign is also a gang symbol does not mean he was using it in that manner.

Believe whatever you want. If you choose to hold your rose colored, 15 year old boy's view of a star athlete like he can do little wrong, then there's no reason for me to shatter your innocence.

If you look at Pierce's body language and how he B'd him, you'd know that's a gang sign. Again, it's water under the bridge, but I will still LOL @ anyone who thought it was "blood sweat and tears." I bet you are the type of person who believes everything government tells you.

[nickagneta]

Hate to spoil your assumption but I was born and lived in Everett and also lived in Chelsea and Dorchester. As a kid and teen I hung on the streets of all the above cities and South Boston.

And I don't believe that was a gang sign because Pierce said it wasn't and because he has been doing it all year during introductions.

Just because that hand sign is also a gang symbol does not mean he was using it in that manner.

Believe whatever you want. If you choose to hold your rose colored, 15 year old boy's view of a star athlete like he can do little wrong, then there's no reason for me to shatter your innocence.

If you look at Pierce's body language and how he B'd him, you'd know that's a gang sign. Again, it's water under the bridge, but I will still LOL @ anyone who thought it was "blood sweat and tears." I bet you are the type of person who believes everything government tells you.

Hey, I've been civil about this, do you think you can do the same thing. There is NO NEED for disrespectful, condescending comments.

I respect that you think it was a gang symbol he B'ed him with, you have that right not to believe the man. But there is no need to be insulting to someone that believes the opposite.

[Bahku]

Hate to spoil your assumption but I was born and lived in Everett and also lived in Chelsea and Dorchester. As a kid and teen I hung on the streets of all the above cities and South Boston.

And I don't believe that was a gang sign because Pierce said it wasn't and because he has been doing it all year during introductions.

Just because that hand sign is also a gang symbol does not mean he was using it in that manner.

Believe whatever you want. If you choose to hold your rose colored, 15 year old boy's view of a star athlete like he can do little wrong, then there's no reason for me to shatter your innocence.

If you look at Pierce's body language and how he B'd him, you'd know that's a gang sign. Again, it's water under the bridge, but I will still LOL @ anyone who thought it was "blood sweat and tears." I bet you are the type of person who believes everything government tells you.

Really no need of this kind of comment or attack .... Nick's as entitled to his opinion as you are, and we all try to take the "high road" here, which excludes condescension and hatefulness. If you have nothing positive to say, it's best to remain silent.

[timboup]

Does anyone really think the NBA would really give out a $25,000 fine without looking into it and determining if it was a gang sign or not? Also the video does not show much, why would pierce be walking towards horford getting ready to fight and then give him a team hand sign?