If Jrue is to be traded...ideas

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This one makes me cringe a bit, but ...

Celtics receive: Walker, McCain, 3rd overall pick
Sixers receive: Holiday, Whitehead, 28th overall pick
Nets receive: Drummond, Gordon, Oubre, Butler, 32nd overall pick from the Celtics

Why for the Celtics? Getting a prospect like McCain + 3rd overall pick would be a great reset for the team. Drummond, Oubre, and Gordon likely need to be diverted to a third team with the 32nd overall pick to save more cap space.

Why for the Nets? They use their space to absorb contracts and buyout the vets they don't want. They get a pick for their trouble (with as many picks as the Nets have this year, they may prefer a future pick instead, but the 32nd is a good stand-in for now).

Why for the Sixers? They are in win-now mode and need a fourth player that can help win games in the playoffs. Holiday is one of the best available right now. It's a lot to pay, but it gives you a guy that is a perfect compliment to Maxey-George-Embiid. It improves your chances to contend for the next 1-2 years with Embiid. They could resign Yabu and Grimes and still have a decent bench with Bona and Council.

I realize that this is the ceiling for a return for Holiday, and is unlikely for the Celtics. However, if you look at the Sixers roster, there just aren't many ways to improve it. George's contract is so big that he is unlikely to be traded and I doubt they would be willing to trade Maxey. A trade like the one above can only net the Sixers a salary in Holiday's range (other options include Jerami Grant, Tyler Herro, Jordan Poole, CJ McCullom, Andrew Wiggins, Michael Porter Jr.). I'd argue Holliday is probably the best available in that salary range for a team trying to win the championship.

The alternate version of this has McCain staying with the Sixers, Council going to the Celtics, and Edwards also going to the Nets. That may be more realistic.

Or, an alternate alternate version would have McCain still going to the Cs, the Nets getting the 3rd pick, the Cs getting the 8th, and the Sixers getting the 19th and 26th from the Nets.

No team is giving up a top-3 pick for Jrue.

Maybe. We've disagreed quite a bit about Jrue's value. I know you think he's a salary dump. I don't think so. This is definitely the opposite side of the spectrum.

Again, the Sixers do not have great paths to improvement. There are iterations of this trade that could work and make the Sixers a better team. They are caught in a weird place and only have maybe 2 years left to try to contend with George and Embiid. They cannot wait for a top-pick (or McCain) to be ready to compete in big moments.

There's an iteration of this trade where the Nets consolidate their 5 1st rounders this year to get the 3rd pick, and the Celtics get a draft pick (either 8th or 19th) in return for Jrue. That may make more sense.

[Moranis]

This is essentially what I'd do.  You can obviously tweak these trades or do similar ones

Trade 1 with Houston
Brown for Sheppard, Brooks, Smith, Eason, 2025 1st (10), 2027 PHX 1st, 2028 HOU 1st (you may not be able to get both of those future picks, but you try)

Trade 2 with Detroit
Porzingis for Stewart, Fontecchio, 2026 DET 1st (lotto protected)

Trade 3 with San Antonio
Holiday for Vassell

Trade 4 with Brooklyn
Hauser for 36 and future protected 2nd

Trade 5 with GS
White for Hield, Podz, GS 28 1st

New roster for next year
PG - Sheppard, Pritchard
SG - Vassell, Podz, Fontecchio
SF - Brooks, Hield, Scheireman
PF - Smith, Eason
C - Stewart, Tillman
10 + 28 + Tatum on IR + 36 (Stash or 2way)
Cut or dump Walsh

That team is not the worst team in the league, but a clear lottery team. I don't think you'd need to do the White trade either, but the idea of getting a way in the future pick of GS was appealing and I do like Podz.

Summer of 26 the guys under contract for 26-27 would be Sheppard, Vassell, Pritchard, Podz, Brooks, Hield, Stewart, Tatum, Scheireman, 10, 28, BOS 26 Lotto pick, Det 26 non-lotto pick.  I'd move some of the guys from that list at the deadline next year for an expiring contract to free up a max or near max slot, but even if you didn't you can use them as the salary filler in a trade for a star.

You then use the cap space for a complimentary piece to Tatum while still having lottery picks and future picks to use in a trade along with guys that can be salary filler.

That is the type of overhaul the team needs to win a title any time in the next 5 years.  Minor moves or moves that don't yield high level draft picks isn't going to get the team there.

So the conservative argument is that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We already have a 2nd banana that has proven to be able to win a championship, and actually outplay Tatum in the conference finals and finals.

Why are we banking on the idea that we might be able to lure a free agent to Boston to play with Tatum in two years? Why then are we trading all of our players and getting back a bunch of mediocre-to-decent prospects, and hoping that some of them will pan out and be trustworthy in big games?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a rebuild. I doubt we do all of those trades. It's more likely we keep a couple of those guys while getting out of the tax. But if we do that, I think we have to get a blue-chipper somewhere back. Those trades are banking pretty hard that Smith or Podz or Sheppard can be starters on our next championship team. I think Smith has that potential, but it's tough to to strip the team down to only potential.

Of course it is hard, but we see in every sport teams hang on and try to maintain, when the smart play is starting over sooner and resetting the clock.  Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

But there are also teams that don't do that, and refound success. Most recently, the Warriors won another championship even after disaster and cap issues struck them the year Durant got injured and left.

I still think it makes sense to keep Tatum and Brown, but everyone else could be moved to retool around them - Steven showed he has the ability to do that. He took a team that had one of the worst benches in the league and made them one of the deepest and most talented teams in the league.

You have to ask questions like "Will Jabari Smith give us a better chance to win the championship in two years than Zinger? How about Sheppard vs. White? What about whatever hypothetical FA that would have a 20% chance of choosing Boston vs Brown?"

That's the risk that has to be weighed. That's also why I argue you have to get blue-chippers back. The guys you get back have to have a reasonable upside to compare to or be better than our current team and where they will be in 2 years.

The Warriors tanked, winning just 15 games and were below the salary cap for 2 straight years.  They did the reset im talking about in large part because Klay was hurt (Curry then got hurt 5 games into that year).  The Warriors ended up with 3 lottery picks in those 2 years by trading assets and going with a young team (Poole doesn't develop without them tanking, they don't have Wiggins without them tanking, etc.) The Warriors reset and win another title.  If they didn't reset, they wouldn't have been able to win especially in a 2nd apron league that is today. 

I actually think Smith is a backup. I'd do the Houston trade for Sheppard, 10, and the future picks.  Smith and Eason are nice players, but not build around players, same as Brooks who I'd try to move after that trade for an expiring. 

You do that trade and none of the others, and Boston is better off as they'd have Sheppard, 10, and their own lottery pick next summer to use as the basis of a title team. The rest of the trades are about shaving salary and minor assets, but that one is about acquiring lottery picks. That is the one you do of all of them.

[Ilikesports17]

This is essentially what I'd do.  You can obviously tweak these trades or do similar ones

Trade 1 with Houston
Brown for Sheppard, Brooks, Smith, Eason, 2025 1st (10), 2027 PHX 1st, 2028 HOU 1st (you may not be able to get both of those future picks, but you try)

Trade 2 with Detroit
Porzingis for Stewart, Fontecchio, 2026 DET 1st (lotto protected)

Trade 3 with San Antonio
Holiday for Vassell

Trade 4 with Brooklyn
Hauser for 36 and future protected 2nd

Trade 5 with GS
White for Hield, Podz, GS 28 1st

New roster for next year
PG - Sheppard, Pritchard
SG - Vassell, Podz, Fontecchio
SF - Brooks, Hield, Scheireman
PF - Smith, Eason
C - Stewart, Tillman
10 + 28 + Tatum on IR + 36 (Stash or 2way)
Cut or dump Walsh

That team is not the worst team in the league, but a clear lottery team. I don't think you'd need to do the White trade either, but the idea of getting a way in the future pick of GS was appealing and I do like Podz.

Summer of 26 the guys under contract for 26-27 would be Sheppard, Vassell, Pritchard, Podz, Brooks, Hield, Stewart, Tatum, Scheireman, 10, 28, BOS 26 Lotto pick, Det 26 non-lotto pick.  I'd move some of the guys from that list at the deadline next year for an expiring contract to free up a max or near max slot, but even if you didn't you can use them as the salary filler in a trade for a star.

You then use the cap space for a complimentary piece to Tatum while still having lottery picks and future picks to use in a trade along with guys that can be salary filler.

That is the type of overhaul the team needs to win a title any time in the next 5 years.  Minor moves or moves that don't yield high level draft picks isn't going to get the team there.

So the conservative argument is that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We already have a 2nd banana that has proven to be able to win a championship, and actually outplay Tatum in the conference finals and finals.

Why are we banking on the idea that we might be able to lure a free agent to Boston to play with Tatum in two years? Why then are we trading all of our players and getting back a bunch of mediocre-to-decent prospects, and hoping that some of them will pan out and be trustworthy in big games?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a rebuild. I doubt we do all of those trades. It's more likely we keep a couple of those guys while getting out of the tax. But if we do that, I think we have to get a blue-chipper somewhere back. Those trades are banking pretty hard that Smith or Podz or Sheppard can be starters on our next championship team. I think Smith has that potential, but it's tough to to strip the team down to only potential.

Of course it is hard, but we see in every sport teams hang on and try to maintain, when the smart play is starting over sooner and resetting the clock.  Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

But there are also teams that don't do that, and refound success. Most recently, the Warriors won another championship even after disaster and cap issues struck them the year Durant got injured and left.

I still think it makes sense to keep Tatum and Brown, but everyone else could be moved to retool around them - Steven showed he has the ability to do that. He took a team that had one of the worst benches in the league and made them one of the deepest and most talented teams in the league.

You have to ask questions like "Will Jabari Smith give us a better chance to win the championship in two years than Zinger? How about Sheppard vs. White? What about whatever hypothetical FA that would have a 20% chance of choosing Boston vs Brown?"

That's the risk that has to be weighed. That's also why I argue you have to get blue-chippers back. The guys you get back have to have a reasonable upside to compare to or be better than our current team and where they will be in 2 years.

The Warriors tanked, winning just 15 games and were below the salary cap for 2 straight years.  They did the reset im talking about in large part because Klay was hurt (Curry then got hurt 5 games into that year).  The Warriors ended up with 3 lottery picks in those 2 years by trading assets and going with a young team (Poole doesn't develop without them tanking, they don't have Wiggins without them tanking, etc.) The Warriors reset and win another title.  If they didn't reset, they wouldn't have been able to win especially in a 2nd apron league that is today. 

I actually think Smith is a backup. I'd do the Houston trade for Sheppard, 10, and the future picks.  Smith and Eason are nice players, but not build around players, same as Brooks who I'd try to move after that trade for an expiring. 

You do that trade and none of the others, and Boston is better off as they'd have Sheppard, 10, and their own lottery pick next summer to use as the basis of a title team. The rest of the trades are about shaving salary and minor assets, but that one is about acquiring lottery picks. That is the one you do of all of them.

The Warriors task of resetting salary was much much easier than ours.

All they had to do was let KD go for Deangelo Russell(not their choice btw) - 11 mil savings
Salary dump Iguodala to make the KD Russell sign-and-trade legal

The fact that they were able to take KD leaving in FA and staple 2 protected firsts (1 of which never even conveyed) and Andre Iguodala to it and get back Deangelo Russell was really the entire rebuild.

They didn't move Steph, Klay or Draymond Green. Injuries got them picks 2 and 14 and then they made a brilliant trade moving Russell for Wiggins and pick 7.

I don't necessarily see this as a path for us. Yes, them sucking allowed them to get good draft capital(even tho they mostly wasted it) but the only 2 real contributors from that tear down were Wiggins and Poole. Poole was developed because of injuries which we can't plan to replicate and Wiggins was acquired with a great trade and Kevin Durant asking out.

I view our core as White-Brown-Tatum. That's our poor man's Curry-Green-Klay. I'm all for dumping anyone and everyone outside of that and following a warriors path. But unlike the Warriors we are not 2 protected firsts away from being able to spin the rest of our roster into a 23 year old all star and huge cap savings.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This is essentially what I'd do.  You can obviously tweak these trades or do similar ones

Trade 1 with Houston
Brown for Sheppard, Brooks, Smith, Eason, 2025 1st (10), 2027 PHX 1st, 2028 HOU 1st (you may not be able to get both of those future picks, but you try)

Trade 2 with Detroit
Porzingis for Stewart, Fontecchio, 2026 DET 1st (lotto protected)

Trade 3 with San Antonio
Holiday for Vassell

Trade 4 with Brooklyn
Hauser for 36 and future protected 2nd

Trade 5 with GS
White for Hield, Podz, GS 28 1st

New roster for next year
PG - Sheppard, Pritchard
SG - Vassell, Podz, Fontecchio
SF - Brooks, Hield, Scheireman
PF - Smith, Eason
C - Stewart, Tillman
10 + 28 + Tatum on IR + 36 (Stash or 2way)
Cut or dump Walsh

That team is not the worst team in the league, but a clear lottery team. I don't think you'd need to do the White trade either, but the idea of getting a way in the future pick of GS was appealing and I do like Podz.

Summer of 26 the guys under contract for 26-27 would be Sheppard, Vassell, Pritchard, Podz, Brooks, Hield, Stewart, Tatum, Scheireman, 10, 28, BOS 26 Lotto pick, Det 26 non-lotto pick.  I'd move some of the guys from that list at the deadline next year for an expiring contract to free up a max or near max slot, but even if you didn't you can use them as the salary filler in a trade for a star.

You then use the cap space for a complimentary piece to Tatum while still having lottery picks and future picks to use in a trade along with guys that can be salary filler.

That is the type of overhaul the team needs to win a title any time in the next 5 years.  Minor moves or moves that don't yield high level draft picks isn't going to get the team there.

So the conservative argument is that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We already have a 2nd banana that has proven to be able to win a championship, and actually outplay Tatum in the conference finals and finals.

Why are we banking on the idea that we might be able to lure a free agent to Boston to play with Tatum in two years? Why then are we trading all of our players and getting back a bunch of mediocre-to-decent prospects, and hoping that some of them will pan out and be trustworthy in big games?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a rebuild. I doubt we do all of those trades. It's more likely we keep a couple of those guys while getting out of the tax. But if we do that, I think we have to get a blue-chipper somewhere back. Those trades are banking pretty hard that Smith or Podz or Sheppard can be starters on our next championship team. I think Smith has that potential, but it's tough to to strip the team down to only potential.

Of course it is hard, but we see in every sport teams hang on and try to maintain, when the smart play is starting over sooner and resetting the clock.  Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

But there are also teams that don't do that, and refound success. Most recently, the Warriors won another championship even after disaster and cap issues struck them the year Durant got injured and left.

I still think it makes sense to keep Tatum and Brown, but everyone else could be moved to retool around them - Steven showed he has the ability to do that. He took a team that had one of the worst benches in the league and made them one of the deepest and most talented teams in the league.

You have to ask questions like "Will Jabari Smith give us a better chance to win the championship in two years than Zinger? How about Sheppard vs. White? What about whatever hypothetical FA that would have a 20% chance of choosing Boston vs Brown?"

That's the risk that has to be weighed. That's also why I argue you have to get blue-chippers back. The guys you get back have to have a reasonable upside to compare to or be better than our current team and where they will be in 2 years.

The Warriors tanked, winning just 15 games and were below the salary cap for 2 straight years.  They did the reset im talking about in large part because Klay was hurt (Curry then got hurt 5 games into that year).  The Warriors ended up with 3 lottery picks in those 2 years by trading assets and going with a young team (Poole doesn't develop without them tanking, they don't have Wiggins without them tanking, etc.) The Warriors reset and win another title.  If they didn't reset, they wouldn't have been able to win especially in a 2nd apron league that is today. 

I actually think Smith is a backup. I'd do the Houston trade for Sheppard, 10, and the future picks.  Smith and Eason are nice players, but not build around players, same as Brooks who I'd try to move after that trade for an expiring. 

You do that trade and none of the others, and Boston is better off as they'd have Sheppard, 10, and their own lottery pick next summer to use as the basis of a title team. The rest of the trades are about shaving salary and minor assets, but that one is about acquiring lottery picks. That is the one you do of all of them.

I'm not against tanking. But that's not what you are proposing. You are a proposing completely exchanging our current roster with a worse roster and hoping that someone pans out or we can sign a FA star.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

[Who]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

[celticinorlando]

Rumors if Al returns the Knicks could be a factor in getting him. That would be a kick in the balls.

[Phantom255x]

Rumors if Al returns the Knicks could be a factor in getting him. That would be a kick in the balls.

I really don't see it. I think Horford either finishes here or retires.

[keevsnick]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

[Goldstar88]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

Exactly, just move on from Jrue for now. C?s have the guard depth with White, Pritchard, Brown. Hauser can play some SG as well.

[Roy H.]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

I think that it's easily attainable, I'm just not sure fans would like the results much.

[Moranis]

This is essentially what I'd do.  You can obviously tweak these trades or do similar ones

Trade 1 with Houston
Brown for Sheppard, Brooks, Smith, Eason, 2025 1st (10), 2027 PHX 1st, 2028 HOU 1st (you may not be able to get both of those future picks, but you try)

Trade 2 with Detroit
Porzingis for Stewart, Fontecchio, 2026 DET 1st (lotto protected)

Trade 3 with San Antonio
Holiday for Vassell

Trade 4 with Brooklyn
Hauser for 36 and future protected 2nd

Trade 5 with GS
White for Hield, Podz, GS 28 1st

New roster for next year
PG - Sheppard, Pritchard
SG - Vassell, Podz, Fontecchio
SF - Brooks, Hield, Scheireman
PF - Smith, Eason
C - Stewart, Tillman
10 + 28 + Tatum on IR + 36 (Stash or 2way)
Cut or dump Walsh

That team is not the worst team in the league, but a clear lottery team. I don't think you'd need to do the White trade either, but the idea of getting a way in the future pick of GS was appealing and I do like Podz.

Summer of 26 the guys under contract for 26-27 would be Sheppard, Vassell, Pritchard, Podz, Brooks, Hield, Stewart, Tatum, Scheireman, 10, 28, BOS 26 Lotto pick, Det 26 non-lotto pick.  I'd move some of the guys from that list at the deadline next year for an expiring contract to free up a max or near max slot, but even if you didn't you can use them as the salary filler in a trade for a star.

You then use the cap space for a complimentary piece to Tatum while still having lottery picks and future picks to use in a trade along with guys that can be salary filler.

That is the type of overhaul the team needs to win a title any time in the next 5 years.  Minor moves or moves that don't yield high level draft picks isn't going to get the team there.

So the conservative argument is that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We already have a 2nd banana that has proven to be able to win a championship, and actually outplay Tatum in the conference finals and finals.

Why are we banking on the idea that we might be able to lure a free agent to Boston to play with Tatum in two years? Why then are we trading all of our players and getting back a bunch of mediocre-to-decent prospects, and hoping that some of them will pan out and be trustworthy in big games?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a rebuild. I doubt we do all of those trades. It's more likely we keep a couple of those guys while getting out of the tax. But if we do that, I think we have to get a blue-chipper somewhere back. Those trades are banking pretty hard that Smith or Podz or Sheppard can be starters on our next championship team. I think Smith has that potential, but it's tough to to strip the team down to only potential.

Of course it is hard, but we see in every sport teams hang on and try to maintain, when the smart play is starting over sooner and resetting the clock.  Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

But there are also teams that don't do that, and refound success. Most recently, the Warriors won another championship even after disaster and cap issues struck them the year Durant got injured and left.

I still think it makes sense to keep Tatum and Brown, but everyone else could be moved to retool around them - Steven showed he has the ability to do that. He took a team that had one of the worst benches in the league and made them one of the deepest and most talented teams in the league.

You have to ask questions like "Will Jabari Smith give us a better chance to win the championship in two years than Zinger? How about Sheppard vs. White? What about whatever hypothetical FA that would have a 20% chance of choosing Boston vs Brown?"

That's the risk that has to be weighed. That's also why I argue you have to get blue-chippers back. The guys you get back have to have a reasonable upside to compare to or be better than our current team and where they will be in 2 years.

The Warriors tanked, winning just 15 games and were below the salary cap for 2 straight years.  They did the reset im talking about in large part because Klay was hurt (Curry then got hurt 5 games into that year).  The Warriors ended up with 3 lottery picks in those 2 years by trading assets and going with a young team (Poole doesn't develop without them tanking, they don't have Wiggins without them tanking, etc.) The Warriors reset and win another title.  If they didn't reset, they wouldn't have been able to win especially in a 2nd apron league that is today. 

I actually think Smith is a backup. I'd do the Houston trade for Sheppard, 10, and the future picks.  Smith and Eason are nice players, but not build around players, same as Brooks who I'd try to move after that trade for an expiring. 

You do that trade and none of the others, and Boston is better off as they'd have Sheppard, 10, and their own lottery pick next summer to use as the basis of a title team. The rest of the trades are about shaving salary and minor assets, but that one is about acquiring lottery picks. That is the one you do of all of them.

I'm not against tanking. But that's not what you are proposing. You are a proposing completely exchanging our current roster with a worse roster and hoping that someone pans out or we can sign a FA star.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

not completely, but Tatum's injury has closed this window.  Boston isn't winning a title next year and they aren't keeping KP the year after and Jrue will be a shell of himself, not to mention White and Brown won't be getting younger and in the case of Brown less injury prone. 

Keeping Tatum, Pritchard, and possibly White, while adding youth and future draft picks is much more likely to lead to a title in the next 5 years, than basically standing pat and moving a contract to get under the 2nd apron. 

The gap year only works if Boston gets a high-level lottery pick out of it and that is much less likely if you keep Brown, White, and at least 1 of Jrue or KP. 

[keevsnick]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

I think that it's easily attainable, I'm just not sure fans would like the results much.

Its easy enough to move both guys, anybody can be moved if you attach assets. But it's very much NOT easy to move both guys without also bringing back money. Its not really a matter of weather fans like it or not, it's a matter of just mathematically there aren't a lot of ways to do it. There is literally only one NBA team who you won't have to salary match with, every other trade requires you taking back an amount of money somewhat similar to what you send out. The C's would have to trim something like 45 million dollars to get below the luxury tax line, and that is very hard to do if it doesn't involve somebody just leaving in free agency.

[jambr380]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

I think that it's easily attainable, I'm just not sure fans would like the results much.

Its easy enough to move both guys, anybody can be moved if you attach assets. But it's very much NOT easy to move both guys without also bringing back money. Its not really a matter of weather fans like it or not, it's a matter of just mathematically there aren't a lot of ways to do it. There is literally only one NBA team who you won't have to salary match with, every other trade requires you taking back an amount of money somewhat similar to what you send out. The C's would have to trim something like 45 million dollars to get below the luxury tax line, and that is very hard to do if it doesn't involve somebody just leaving in free agency.

If you combine KP, Jrue, and Hauser, you get around $73M. So if the Celtics need to cut $45M, they can still take back around $28M in contracts.

Assume they can find a team to send Hauser, then they only need to turn $63M into $28M. If you waive and stretch KP (last resort), then they they would only need to turn Jrue?s $32M into $18M or less.

If you do a deal with Dallas, you keep Gafford at $14M and send off PJ to another team into an exception and you?ve done it. You?re below the tax.

So while it is not ideal to carry $10M/yr of dead money on the books for the next 3 years and it is also not ideal to turn 3 very good players into Gafford (while also losing Horford and Kornet), it is quite possible. That?s what Roy meant about being easily attainable, but that fans wouldn?t like it.

[tonydelk]

I think moving Jrue is the best route.  Only because we have PP and Dwhite at the guard spot.  We could even go big with Dwhite at PG, JB at SG if you really want PP's scoring off the bench.  I really want the C's to get bigger.  They seem to get beatup by teams like NYK, Orlando and even Toronto due to their length and physicality.  Keep zinger and let him expire off the books.  Getting below the 2nd apron should be obtainable this year.  Getting below the tax line this year will be difficult but not next year.  The ownership has multiple billionaires in their group so paying a heavy tax in year one of their ownership should be able to be handled so they can keep a competitive team.  Hauser is the other one who I think can be moved this year or next.  I really think Baylor will be the better player because of his all around game and want him to get big minutes next year.

[Roy H.]

Especially for a team like boston which has a couple of finite options and has terrible penalties under the cap.  Even if they get out of the 2nd apron, there are still repeater tax issues to account for (which will only get worse if they do push hard when Tatum comes back with roughly the same roster). 

Teams need to not only get out of the aprons, but out of the tax entirely or it just compounds until they have to blow it all up.  This is a rebuild type blow up, because you keep Tatum.  You use his injury to get out of the tax and rebuild.

The Warriors reset by taking a gap year, doing the minimum necessary to get out of the tax, but keeping their core of Steph-Klay-Green. That makes sense for the Cs.

So what is the minimum needed to get Boston below first the 2nd Apron and secondly the luxury tax threshold? In order to avoid repeater taxes and reset that moving forward. Who would the team need to move? Who would they be allowed to keep?

It sounds like we have to move one of Jrue or Zinger to get below the 2nd Apron. So I am guessing we have to move both guys to get below the luxury tax threshold. That this would be the minimum necessary to get out of the tax.

So we keep the core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White and get out of the luxury tax range. Is that possible?

Can we keep Pritchard and Hauser as well?
Can we re-sign Horford or is he gone?

-------------------------------

Google says salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to be $154.6mil with the luxury tax $187.9mil. So we would need to be below the $187.9mil figure, right?

Core = Tatum, Jaylen, D White = $135.37 million
Pritchard and Hauser = $17.28mil
Total = $152.55 million

Then you have Scheiermann and the minimum contracts. I don't know what that will work out as. Somewhere in the $15-20mil range? Let's say $20mil. That is $172.5mil. There is still a chance they could re-sign Horford at that number.

Porzingis = $30.73mil
Jrue = $32.4mil

Hard to see them being able to keep a 4th star and get below the luxury tax. Maybe if you dump Pritchard and Hauser you could just about make the numbers work. It would be tight.

The short answer is basically yes, they could TECHNICALLY get below the tax level by trading both KP and Holiday. But to do so they'd need to trade both guys and have almost no salary coming back in return (maybe they could bring back like one 10-15 million dollar player) and that's very hard to do. Only one team in the NBA (the nets) has the room to just absorb a 30 million dollar salary.

getting below the 2nd apron is easier, its about 20 million dollars higher, so you only need to drop one of KP or Jrue. I think getting below the luxury tax is probably not attainable this offseason.

I think that it's easily attainable, I'm just not sure fans would like the results much.

Its easy enough to move both guys, anybody can be moved if you attach assets. But it's very much NOT easy to move both guys without also bringing back money. Its not really a matter of weather fans like it or not, it's a matter of just mathematically there aren't a lot of ways to do it. There is literally only one NBA team who you won't have to salary match with, every other trade requires you taking back an amount of money somewhat similar to what you send out. The C's would have to trim something like 45 million dollars to get below the luxury tax line, and that is very hard to do if it doesn't involve somebody just leaving in free agency.

If you combine KP, Jrue, and Hauser, you get around $73M. So if the Celtics need to cut $45M, they can still take back around $28M in contracts.

Assume they can find a team to send Hauser, then they only need to turn $63M into $28M. If you waive and stretch KP (last resort), then they they would only need to turn Jrue?s $32M into $18M or less.

If you do a deal with Dallas, you keep Gafford at $14M and send off PJ to another team into an exception and you?ve done it. You?re below the tax.

So while it is not ideal to carry $10M/yr of dead money on the books for the next 3 years and it is also not ideal to turn 3 very good players into Gafford (while also losing Horford and Kornet), it is quite possible. That?s what Roy meant about being easily attainable, but that fans wouldn?t like it.

Yeah.  I mean, here's a simple plan that gets us below the tax:

Step one:  Trade Jrue to LAC.  We keep Kris Dunn; we reroute Norman Powell to ATL into their TPE.  Send ATL the #28 pick if necessary.  This saves $26.97 million.

Step two:  Waive and stretch KP.  (It makes more sense to trade him for expirings, and then try to move those expiring contracts, but we're doing this quick and easy).  Savings:  $20.46 million.

Total savings:  $47.43 million

That puts us under the luxury tax.  Easy (and there are hundreds of ways you could do this), but not preferable for fans.