2024 NBA Season and Playoffs

[Who]

Lakers hanging in there against the Clippers with no LeBron.

[celticsclay]

Lakers hanging in there against the Clippers with no LeBron.

Clippers kind of just toyed with them. Second career triple double for Leonard.

[Who]

I was reading some criticism of Ayton.

I have been surprised Ayton's scoring has been down so much this season. Even before CP3 joined the Suns, Ayton was scoring more than this. At 12.8ppg he is averaging the lowest points of his career. He was scoring 17ppg for the Suns before CP3 joined and 16.5ppg when playing with CP3. Almost the same.

His shot profile is interesting. It is similar to last year with 2/3rds within 10 feet and 1/3 outside of 10 feet. However, his shots directly at the rim show a marked difference in terms of how many shots are assisted on. Only 52.8% of his shots right at the rim are assisted on. That is a very low mark for a big man. Especially for a big who is not taking a high volume of attempts. That number was 75% last year on the Suns. Those easy buckets Booker & CP3 were setting him up for.

His FGA per game are down from 12.2 with the Suns to 10.9 with the Blazers so only a small difference. 10% difference. Most of the difference is efficiency. 62.2% TS% for Suns vs 55.5% for Portland. His FTr has gotten even worse. Only 1.4 FTA to 10.9 FGA for a 12.7% FTr. He has always been bad at getting to the line (21.4% for Suns) but that is ridiculous.

Does anyone watch the Blazers? Know what is going on? Is it his teammates not looking for him enough? Or him being totally disengaged? Or a bit of both?

It looks like a bit both from the numbers.

[Moranis]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

[Neurotic Guy]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

Could easily make the case that both Sanders and Nelson had better careers than Haslem and of course were contributors to multiple championships - Sanders-8 and Nelson-5. But there’s no set criteria for the retiring of a number and it’s really no big deal if the Magic want to honor a longtime team member in this way. Good for Haslem for having such an impact as a non-star.

[BitterJim]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

That's an argument for not retiring as many numbers as we have, not for other teams retiring more numbers. I don't like us retiring the KG jersey, either, he's probably my favorite Celtic ever but he just wasn't here long enough. You should be on the team as a great player for a long time, just fitting one of those criteria isn't enough.

As for Haslem, "20 years" is pretty misleading. For 6 of those years he played significantly less than 100 total minutes, with one year literally being 3 minutes TOTAL. He has 4 career seasons over 10ppg. He's a culture guy, not a star. If that's what they want to base retiring numbers off of they can go ahead, but that doesn't mean we should pretend it isn't embarrassing.

[Donoghus]

Teams can do whatever they want with retiring numbers. It doesn't really bother me.

Comparing Haslem to Macauley was foolish, though.

[Kernewek]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

That's an argument for not retiring as many numbers as we have, not for other teams retiring more numbers. I don't like us retiring the KG jersey, either, he's probably my favorite Celtic ever but he just wasn't here long enough. You should be on the team as a great player for a long time, just fitting one of those criteria isn't enough.

As for Haslem, "20 years" is pretty misleading. For 6 of those years he played significantly less than 100 total minutes, with one year literally being 3 minutes TOTAL. He has 4 career seasons over 10ppg. He's a culture guy, not a star. If that's what they want to base retiring numbers off of they can go ahead, but that doesn't mean we should pretend it isn't embarrassing.

I might suggest that KG's absolute revival of a more or less moribund franchise (Much as I loved those early 00's teams, they were not very good) outweighs this hurdle.

Impact over tenure, if you like.

[Donoghus]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

That's an argument for not retiring as many numbers as we have, not for other teams retiring more numbers. I don't like us retiring the KG jersey, either, he's probably my favorite Celtic ever but he just wasn't here long enough. You should be on the team as a great player for a long time, just fitting one of those criteria isn't enough.

As for Haslem, "20 years" is pretty misleading. For 6 of those years he played significantly less than 100 total minutes, with one year literally being 3 minutes TOTAL. He has 4 career seasons over 10ppg. He's a culture guy, not a star. If that's what they want to base retiring numbers off of they can go ahead, but that doesn't mean we should pretend it isn't embarrassing.

I might suggest that KG's absolute revival of a more or less moribund franchise (Much as I loved those early 00's teams, they were not very good) outweighs this hurdle.

Impact over tenure, if you like.

Big time in this case.  The impact of KG's arrival on the Celtics can't be understated in terms of what it did to the franchise's standing in the region at the time.   

[Moranis]

Haslem absolutely should have his number retired by the Heat. I don't think it is even a question.  2nd in games and minutes, 8th in points, 1st on offensive, defensive, and total rebounds; 10th in blocks; 4th in WinShares: etc.

On top of thet he was the starting PF on 3 separate champions.

So by that logic, the Magic should retire Nick Anderson's number, too? 1st in games, 2nd in minutes, 5th in DRB, 3rd in ORB, 4th in TRB, 2nd in points, 5th in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in win shares... 0 All Star appearences. He can join Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vucevic (who I don't think is deserving but has an even better resume than Anderson), Jameer Nelson (also shouldn't, but fits these criteria). And other must be arguable if those guys shouldn't even be a question.

Playing for a team for a long time means you'll rack up counting stats, but it doesn't automatically mean that you should get your number retired. It takes (or should take) more than that, especially for a franchise who has had legitimate success like the Heat.

was Nick Anderson a starter on 3 title teams? Did Nick Anderson play 20 years and all for the Magic?

Tom Sanders is retired by Boston.  No all star appearances. 9.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg for his career.  Don Nelson basically the same 11.4 ppg and 5.3 rpg  in his 11 seasons in Boston. Frank Ramsey. Jim Loscutoff.

I mean for a franchise that will retire basocally anyones
number arguing about Haslem seems weird to me.

That's an argument for not retiring as many numbers as we have, not for other teams retiring more numbers. I don't like us retiring the KG jersey, either, he's probably my favorite Celtic ever but he just wasn't here long enough. You should be on the team as a great player for a long time, just fitting one of those criteria isn't enough.

As for Haslem, "20 years" is pretty misleading. For 6 of those years he played significantly less than 100 total minutes, with one year literally being 3 minutes TOTAL. He has 4 career seasons over 10ppg. He's a culture guy, not a star. If that's what they want to base retiring numbers off of they can go ahead, but that doesn't mean we should pretend it isn't embarrassing.

he suited up for 20 years. Sure the last few he was more of an assistant coach than player, but he was still traveling in the team, setting the tone, etc.

As an outsider, the Heat should have 6 people in the rafters with Jimmy and Bam well on their way.  Zo, Hardaway, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, and Shaq. Given Shaq is up there after 3.5 years and 1 title, Lebron will also go up there for his 4 years and 2 titles when he retires.

[bdm860]

I think most NBA teams would retire Haslem's number if they had a player like Haslem.

OKC retired Nick Collison, San Antonio retired Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson, Sonics retired Nate McMillian.  Grizzlies have said they're retiring Tony Allen's number.

[celticsclay]

I think most NBA teams would retire Haslem's number if they had a player like Haslem.

OKC retired Nick Collison, San Antonio retired Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson, Sonics retired Nate McMillian.  Grizzlies have said they're retiring Tony Allen's number.

I didn't know about Collison. That seems absolutely crazy to me. He never even averaged double digit points or rebounds. Why did they do that? That is like if Kornet kept signing here for ten more years on vet mins and we retired his number.

[Donoghus]

I think most NBA teams would retire Haslem's number if they had a player like Haslem.

OKC retired Nick Collison, San Antonio retired Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson, Sonics retired Nate McMillian.  Grizzlies have said they're retiring Tony Allen's number.

I didn't know about Collison. That seems absolutely crazy to me. He never even averaged double digit points or rebounds. Why did he do that? That is like if Kornet kept signing here for ten more years on vet mins and we retired his number.

If I had to guess, it's a loyalty thing and him being a foundational piece when the team moved from Seattle to Oklahoma City and trying to establish a new identity and gain a foothold as the Thunder. And he didn't leave like Durant did.

Who knows.

[Moranis]

I think most NBA teams would retire Haslem's number if they had a player like Haslem.

OKC retired Nick Collison, San Antonio retired Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson, Sonics retired Nate McMillian.  Grizzlies have said they're retiring Tony Allen's number.

I didn't know about Collison. That seems absolutely crazy to me. He never even averaged double digit points or rebounds. Why did he do that? That is like if Kornet kept signing here for ten more years on vet mins and we retired his number.

If I had to guess, it's a loyalty thing and him being a foundational piece when the team moved from Seattle to Oklahoma City and trying to establish a new identity and gain a foothold as the Thunder. And he didn't leave like Durant did.

Who knows.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26318890/thunder-retire-no-4-jersey-stalwart-collison

[Yuckabuck33]

I couldn't believe the Haslem jersey retirement. What a joke.

The Celtics have never retired a jersey for emotional reasons? Was Ed Macauley really that good??? Lol.

Wouldn’t Jim Loscatoff be the comp?  “Loscy”

That's who I meant!