Are we in the Jrue Holiday market?

[Vermont Green]

I couldn’t disagree more with the people content with the roster as is…sure it’s fine but if you can somehow swap out Brogdon for jrue you are significantly better not to mention keeping jrue away from the heat and 6ers.
It’s also addition by subtraction getting Brogdon off this team at this point, no idea why people still like that loser

It comes down to how sure one is that Jrue is an upgrade — and obviously how much you give up to get him. MB for Jrue straight up I’m pretty sure just about everyone one would be on board. But that isn’t happening.

In terms of rotation players from last season, we'd be giving up Brogdon.  That's it.

Then Walsh (unproven, borderline prospect), Kornet (easily replaceable third center), and Pritchard (decent backup PG).

Then picks and cash. 

In terms of "win now", we'd be losing Pritchard and Kornet.  Add Payne and Biyombo.

Which would you rather have have the next two seasons:

A.  Jrue, Payne, Biyombo, roster spot

B.  Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, Walsh

This is what it all comes down to, how does the impact from the upgrade of Brogdon to Holiday compare to relative impact of the replacements for who we send out.  This is based on not sending out any other draft picks, which have a lot of value with the new CBA rules.

I don't feel that Payne and Biyombo are going to step in and replace Pritchard and Kornet, assuming the Celtics are even able to make those acquisitions.  Pritchard and Kornet know the system, whenever you bring in new players, even if you bring them in during the off season, there is risk and a period of acclamation.  I would rather have Pritchard and Kornet, I think there is a difference.  And giving up Walsh isn't nothing.

In the end, if all we give up is Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, and Walsh/Hauser (I prefer Hauser as I feel Brissett and Stevens can replace him fully), I am OK with the trade but I probably would rather not do it.  And I definitely don't do it if we have to start adding first round pick to it.  I prefer not to introduce the risk and uncertainty to the team for what I see as an uncertain level of upgrade.  And I have my doubts that POR would do it.

[Who]

C Payne > Pritchard
Biyombo > Kornet

I'd love to get those upgrades.

[kraidstar]

3 team trade

Boston - Holiday, Powell
Dallas - Brogdon
Portland - Hardaway, Rob, Pritchard, 24 GS , 24 Bos, 26 Bos

Bravo. You've managed to concoct a trade where the Celtics are giving up more for Jrue at age 33 than the Bucks did for Jrue at age 30.

You're discounting the addition of Powell who would be a fantastic addition as a backup power forward which is the one thing everyone on here has been pining for.

This isn't a trade scenario just for Jrue.

I do agree it's one too many picks.  I'd be fine with removing one of the two C's picks, so that it would just be GS '24 and Celtics '24 or '26.

I wouldn't trade Pritchard for Powell straight up.

Powell is 33 years old. He doesn't defend.  Doesn’t shoot 3's.

He doesn't get more than 19mpg on a paper thin Mavs roster. There's a reason he's making only $4m per year, that's barely more than the vet minimum for an older guy. He wouldn't see the court here.

And I think people are really undervaluing Brogdon and Rob lately. Brogdon is a natural shooter, something we desperately need. And elite defensive big men don't grow on trees. They are impact players who could push OTHER contenders over the top.

If we're giving away that much it needs to be for a star in their prime to fit with the Jays' timeline. I like Holiday, but he is too old to sell the farm for him.

[No Nickname]

I couldn’t disagree more with the people content with the roster as is…sure it’s fine but if you can somehow swap out Brogdon for jrue you are significantly better not to mention keeping jrue away from the heat and 6ers.
It’s also addition by subtraction getting Brogdon off this team at this point, no idea why people still like that loser

It comes down to how sure one is that Jrue is an upgrade — and obviously how much you give up to get him. MB for Jrue straight up I’m pretty sure just about everyone one would be on board. But that isn’t happening.

In terms of rotation players from last season, we'd be giving up Brogdon.  That's it.

Then Walsh (unproven, borderline prospect), Kornet (easily replaceable third center), and Pritchard (decent backup PG).

Then picks and cash. 

In terms of "win now", we'd be losing Pritchard and Kornet.  Add Payne and Biyombo.

Which would you rather have have the next two seasons:

A.  Jrue, Payne, Biyombo, roster spot

B.  Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, Walsh, 2024 Celtics's Pick, 2024 GS Pick, 2026 Celtic's Pick

I added in some other aspects in bold that will make this a better visual for judging.

I know you said for "win now" but those picks shouldn't be discounted when looking holistically at this.

[tonydelk]

I couldn’t disagree more with the people content with the roster as is…sure it’s fine but if you can somehow swap out Brogdon for jrue you are significantly better not to mention keeping jrue away from the heat and 6ers.
It’s also addition by subtraction getting Brogdon off this team at this point, no idea why people still like that loser

It comes down to how sure one is that Jrue is an upgrade — and obviously how much you give up to get him. MB for Jrue straight up I’m pretty sure just about everyone one would be on board. But that isn’t happening.

In terms of rotation players from last season, we'd be giving up Brogdon.  That's it.

Then Walsh (unproven, borderline prospect), Kornet (easily replaceable third center), and Pritchard (decent backup PG).

Then picks and cash. 

In terms of "win now", we'd be losing Pritchard and Kornet.  Add Payne and Biyombo.

Which would you rather have have the next two seasons:

A.  Jrue, Payne, Biyombo, roster spot

B.  Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, Walsh, 2024 Celtics's Pick, 2024 GS Pick, 2026 Celtic's Pick

I added in some other aspects in bold that will make this a better visual for judging.

I know you said for "win now" but those picks shouldn't be discounted when looking holistically at this.

I still don't think all of that to get Jrue puts the cs over the top.  Boston desperately needs to start bringing in young 1st round talent to develop.  I'd rather have the depth and Brigdon then Jrue. 

[Moranis]

3 team trade

Boston - Holiday, Powell
Dallas - Brogdon
Portland - Hardaway, Rob, Pritchard, 24 GS , 24 Bos, 26 Bos

Bravo. You've managed to concoct a trade where the Celtics are giving up more for Jrue at age 33 than the Bucks did for Jrue at age 30.

that is not true. Bucks got Holiday and the 60th pick (Sam Merrill) for Bledsoe, Hill, the 24th pick (RJHampton), 25 and 27 unprotected picks and swaps in 24 and 26.  So they gave up 3 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, along with Bledsoe and Hill for Holiday and a 2nd round pick.

[Neurotic Guy]

I couldn’t disagree more with the people content with the roster as is…sure it’s fine but if you can somehow swap out Brogdon for jrue you are significantly better not to mention keeping jrue away from the heat and 6ers.
It’s also addition by subtraction getting Brogdon off this team at this point, no idea why people still like that loser

It comes down to how sure one is that Jrue is an upgrade — and obviously how much you give up to get him. MB for Jrue straight up I’m pretty sure just about everyone one would be on board. But that isn’t happening.

In terms of rotation players from last season, we'd be giving up Brogdon.  That's it.

Then Walsh (unproven, borderline prospect), Kornet (easily replaceable third center), and Pritchard (decent backup PG).

Then picks and cash. 

In terms of "win now", we'd be losing Pritchard and Kornet.  Add Payne and Biyombo.

Which would you rather have have the next two seasons:

A.  Jrue, Payne, Biyombo, roster spot

B.  Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, Walsh, 2024 Celtics's Pick, 2024 GS Pick, 2026 Celtic's Pick

I added in some other aspects in bold that will make this a better visual for judging.

I know you said for "win now" but those picks shouldn't be discounted when looking holistically at this.

I still don't think all of that to get Jrue puts the cs over the top.  Boston desperately needs to start bringing in young 1st round talent to develop.  I'd rather have the depth and Brigdon then Jrue.

How did Dwight Powell get to be 33?  That was fast.

You don’t think the Cs have top tier talent? Or does ‘over the top’ mean clear cut favorite…
Cs as is or with Jrue are in the mix - definitely capable of winning 18. Injuries to our top 3 or Bucks top 3 (well, top 2) may determine who comes out of the East. Full strength it should be a blood bath.

Either way, can’t wait to see how KP fits.

[kraidstar]

3 team trade

Boston - Holiday, Powell
Dallas - Brogdon
Portland - Hardaway, Rob, Pritchard, 24 GS , 24 Bos, 26 Bos

Bravo. You've managed to concoct a trade where the Celtics are giving up more for Jrue at age 33 than the Bucks did for Jrue at age 30.

that is not true. Bucks got Holiday and the 60th pick (Sam Merrill) for Bledsoe, Hill, the 24th pick (RJHampton), 25 and 27 unprotected picks and swaps in 24 and 26.  So they gave up 3 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, along with Bledsoe and Hill for Holiday and a 2nd round pick.

Yes it is true. Hill was washed. Bledsoe was an overpaid stiff who put up empty stats but didn't help the team. He's out of the league now btw.

Rob and Brogdon are vastly superior players and still have good years ahead of them. And the GS pick is probably worth at least as much as a late 1st and two swaps. That pick has lottery potential.

So draft pick compensation is similar. But talent going out -  Rob, Brogdon, and Pritchard - is not close.

Just an atrocious trade for the Celtics.

[Roy H.]

I couldn’t disagree more with the people content with the roster as is…sure it’s fine but if you can somehow swap out Brogdon for jrue you are significantly better not to mention keeping jrue away from the heat and 6ers.
It’s also addition by subtraction getting Brogdon off this team at this point, no idea why people still like that loser

It comes down to how sure one is that Jrue is an upgrade — and obviously how much you give up to get him. MB for Jrue straight up I’m pretty sure just about everyone one would be on board. But that isn’t happening.

In terms of rotation players from last season, we'd be giving up Brogdon.  That's it.

Then Walsh (unproven, borderline prospect), Kornet (easily replaceable third center), and Pritchard (decent backup PG).

Then picks and cash. 

In terms of "win now", we'd be losing Pritchard and Kornet.  Add Payne and Biyombo.

Which would you rather have have the next two seasons:

A.  Jrue, Payne, Biyombo, roster spot

B.  Brogdon, Pritchard, Kornet, Walsh, 2024 Celtics's Pick, 2024 GS Pick, 2026 Celtic's Pick

I added in some other aspects in bold that will make this a better visual for judging.

I know you said for "win now" but those picks shouldn't be discounted when looking holistically at this.

I doubt it takes three number ones, but even if so, what happened to the Memphis #1 we got?  It was converted into a bunch of #2s, which are nothing more than low percentage scratch tickets.

[Goldstar88]

Some Blazers fans commenting that Jrue was the best Lillard defender in the league. The only guy who consistently caused him problems and caused Lillard to underperform. I know Jrue had a great playoff series against Dame a few years ago but they are saying it was not a one-off but a frequent case. So they are claiming Jrue is a great weapon to have for any team worried about facing the new look Bucks in the postseason. The key to slowing down Dame.

I think White will do just fine. I also expect Derrick to have 3+ years of playing high level defense since he’s 29. Jrue is on the back end of his prime. He’s making $37M this year and $39M next. That’s too much money for a 4th option who will be 34 next Spring.

Not if he contributes to a championship.

Sure, but there’s no guarantee that they win this year by adding Holiday. His game could fall off after this season as he will be 34 in the Spring. Im fairly confident that Whites game will not drop off over the next few years and he makes half the money.

[Roy H.]

Some Blazers fans commenting that Jrue was the best Lillard defender in the league. The only guy who consistently caused him problems and caused Lillard to underperform. I know Jrue had a great playoff series against Dame a few years ago but they are saying it was not a one-off but a frequent case. So they are claiming Jrue is a great weapon to have for any team worried about facing the new look Bucks in the postseason. The key to slowing down Dame.

I think White will do just fine. I also expect Derrick to have 3+ years of playing high level defense since he’s 29. Jrue is on the back end of his prime. He’s making $37M this year and $39M next. That’s too much money for a 4th option who will be 34 next Spring.

Not if he contributes to a championship.

Sure, but there’s no guarantee that they win this year by adding Holiday. His game could fall off after this season.

Or, Brogdon regresses and/or is injured.

I trust Jrue more.

[Goldstar88]

Some Blazers fans commenting that Jrue was the best Lillard defender in the league. The only guy who consistently caused him problems and caused Lillard to underperform. I know Jrue had a great playoff series against Dame a few years ago but they are saying it was not a one-off but a frequent case. So they are claiming Jrue is a great weapon to have for any team worried about facing the new look Bucks in the postseason. The key to slowing down Dame.

I think White will do just fine. I also expect Derrick to have 3+ years of playing high level defense since he’s 29. Jrue is on the back end of his prime. He’s making $37M this year and $39M next. That’s too much money for a 4th option who will be 34 next Spring.

Not if he contributes to a championship.

Sure, but there’s no guarantee that they win this year by adding Holiday. His game could fall off after this season.

Or, Brogdon regresses and/or is injured.

I trust Jrue more.

If Brogdon is still bitter and wants out, I’d move him for Holiday. Otherwise I wouldn’t want Jrue with that contract at his age, plus the other players and picks the C’s would have to give up.

[Ed Monix]

In my mind this would be a fair deal:

Blazers: Williams III, Morris Sr, Covington, Celtics 2024 - 1st round pick, Warriors 2024 - 1st round pick (via Celtics), Raptors 2024 - 2nd round pick (via Clippers), 2024 Pacers - 2nd round pick (via Clippers), 2029 Clippers - 2nd round pick

Celtics: Holiday

Clippers: Brogdon

[Ed Monix]

From what I’ve read, there’s a ‘significant gap’ between what the Blazers want and what the Celtics are willing to offer.

Given the volume of interest, I don’t think we’ll see Holiday playing for the Celtics.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

From what I’ve read, there’s a ‘significant gap’ between what the Blazers want and what the Celtics are willing to offer.

Given the volume of interest, I don’t think we’ll see Holiday playing for the Celtics.

Where are you reading that?

I think Holiday is exactly the kind of player Stevens values. The only question is whether or not he doesn't feel like he's worth as much because White gives a lot of what Holiday does.