Are we in the Jrue Holiday market?

[Kernewek]

Is Holiday that good that he's worth brogdon and someone like Rob Williams?

No he's not. Don't get all the hype fans want to erode our depth for him

He's not and I think this board sometimes fall into love with older versions of a player. Yes id love for 30 year old Jrue on this team but anyone who watched Jrue last season and half knows he's not that guy anymore. I think if he did land here at that cost we would be greatly disappointed with the version of Jrue we got.

Jrue was quite good last year.  He's a better overall player than Brogdon, and likely will be the next couple of seasons.

I wouldn't give up Brogdon and Horford/Timelord.  I would give up Brogdon + Pritchard + Walsh + Griffin + picks + cash.

For perspective, Jrue averaged 19.3 points / 7.4 assists / 5.1 rebounds / .556 eFG% last season, while being named an All-Star and All-Defense first team.

More importantly, if he's in decline it's not by much so far - as his numbers since turning 30 (i.e. since joining Milwaukee) have been very consistent and consistently good.

Always possible he falls off a cliff, of course, and he did look worse than Brogdon in the postseason from what I remember, but they're not particularly dissimilar production vs contract.

[Roy H.]

The price for Holiday likely starts at two first-round picks, but several teams in the mix have the means and motivation to go beyond that. The LA Clippers are reportedly in the hunt for the defensive stalwart, but they have continued to engage the Celtics in trade talks for Brogdon throughout the offseason, league sources told The Athletic under the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely.
Source: Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

[tonydelk]

I know there are a lot of moving parts to try to get a Jrue deal done because of matching salary.  The C's are also limited because of the tax apron and they can't take back more salary then they are sending out.  In order to get more salary couldn't the C's technically use the Grant TPE and immediately move that player to Portland or a 3rd team?  With Brogdon's Salary?

Brogdon - 22,5000.00
Grant TPE Player - 6,200,000
Total = 28,700,000

Jrue Salary Matching - 36,861,707

Total left needed = 8,161,707

Pritchard, Kornet and either Hauser or Walsh would make up the rest.  This would allow the C's to keep Horford and Rob.

PG - Jrue, Derrick
SG - Jaylen
SF - Tatum either Walsh or Hauser
PF - Porzingas
C - Al, Rob

You lose Pritchard and either Walsh or Hauser in your rotation.  There are still a few players that are available that could give you some minutes.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I know there are a lot of moving parts to try to get a Jrue deal done because of matching salary.  The C's are also limited because of the tax apron and they can't take back more salary then they are sending out.  In order to get more salary couldn't the C's technically use the Grant TPE and immediately move that player to Portland or a 3rd team?  With Brogdon's Salary?

Brogdon - 22,5000.00
Grant TPE Player - 6,200,000
Total = 28,700,000

Jrue Salary Matching - 36,861,707

Total left needed = 8,161,707

Pritchard, Kornet and either Hauser or Walsh would make up the rest.  This would allow the C's to keep Horford and Rob.

PG - Jrue, Derrick
SG - Jaylen
SF - Tatum either Walsh or Hauser
PF - Porzingas
C - Al, Rob

You lose Pritchard and either Walsh or Hauser in your rotation.  There are still a few players that are available that could give you some minutes.

They can't aggregate TPE in a trade, can they?

[tonydelk]

I know there are a lot of moving parts to try to get a Jrue deal done because of matching salary.  The C's are also limited because of the tax apron and they can't take back more salary then they are sending out.  In order to get more salary couldn't the C's technically use the Grant TPE and immediately move that player to Portland or a 3rd team?  With Brogdon's Salary?

Brogdon - 22,5000.00
Grant TPE Player - 6,200,000
Total = 28,700,000

Jrue Salary Matching - 36,861,707

Total left needed = 8,161,707

Pritchard, Kornet and either Hauser or Walsh would make up the rest.  This would allow the C's to keep Horford and Rob.

PG - Jrue, Derrick
SG - Jaylen
SF - Tatum either Walsh or Hauser
PF - Porzingas
C - Al, Rob

You lose Pritchard and either Walsh or Hauser in your rotation.  There are still a few players that are available that could give you some minutes.

They can't aggregate TPE in a trade, can they?

It would be a separate trade that you move the player immediately after you acquire him.  I thought there was a window to do this to be able to then aggregate that salary into the larger deal.

The problem with these deals is the C's desperately need to start drafting and developing cheap talent.  I'd rather them keep the team as is and roll with what they have. 

[celticinorlando]

The price for Holiday likely starts at two first-round picks, but several teams in the mix have the means and motivation to go beyond that. The LA Clippers are reportedly in the hunt for the defensive stalwart, but they have continued to engage the Celtics in trade talks for Brogdon throughout the offseason, league sources told The Athletic under the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely.
Source: Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

I want to know what they are offering for Brogdon. And I wonder if the Clippers are a third team...they get Brogdon, Portland picks, Cs Holiday

[Kernewek]

The price for Holiday likely starts at two first-round picks, but several teams in the mix have the means and motivation to go beyond that. The LA Clippers are reportedly in the hunt for the defensive stalwart, but they have continued to engage the Celtics in trade talks for Brogdon throughout the offseason, league sources told The Athletic under the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely.
Source: Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

I want to know what they are offering for Brogdon. And I wonder if the Clippers are a third team...they get Brogdon, Portland picks, Cs Holiday

So if this shakes out, we go from Smart/Brogdon/White to White & Holiday.

Seems about even to me, although it's worth noting that the logjam at the point is certainly resolved.

[Neurotic Guy]

The price for Holiday likely starts at two first-round picks, but several teams in the mix have the means and motivation to go beyond that. The LA Clippers are reportedly in the hunt for the defensive stalwart, but they have continued to engage the Celtics in trade talks for Brogdon throughout the offseason, league sources told The Athletic under the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely.
Source: Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

It’s a little encouraging if LAC still wants Brogdon.  That might motivate them to make a 3-team deal work. I’m good with sending out MB, pick(s), and Pritchard, but not on board with losing Rob.  I guess unless a decent rotation big comes back somehow.

Having Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, KP, Al, and Rob as top 7 is crazy good. The impact of Jrue feels a small notch up over Brogdon - especially with MB injury concerns. But I’m also good going into the season as is.

One caveat - if Brogdon is actually a little perturbed about his name in trade talks, this isn’t helping. Probably got to move him if the talks right now are legit.

[Who]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

[droopdog7]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

[Roy H.]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

Why would we have to trade Al or Timelord?

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

He would provide better scoring, defense, passing and shooting, yes.

Last year (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2023&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

Last three years (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2021&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

But, the bigger thing:  our team last year + Porzingis (but minus Brogdon) would have been pretty stacked.

[droopdog7]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

Why would we have to trade Al or Timelord?

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

He would provide better scoring, defense, passing and shooting, yes.

But, the bigger thing:  our team last year + Porzingis (but minus Brogdon) would have been pretty stacked.

Because I don't want to trade tatum or brown? 

I kid but it doesn't look like we can trade for jrue even if we included brogdon and everyone else not tied down.  I tried a 7 for 1, which is kinda ridiculous, and still did not have enough salary.  Plus, how many first rounder we gonna include?

So logically, we're talking Al or Rob or, I guess White. 

[Who]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

Why would we have to trade Al or Timelord?

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

He would provide better scoring, defense, passing and shooting, yes.

Last year (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2023&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

Last three years (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2021&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

But, the bigger thing:  our team last year + Porzingis (but minus Brogdon) would have been pretty stacked.

Jrue is not going to score as much as a 4th option as he did in Milwaukee. There are not as many shot attempts. There are not as many opportunities to create off the dribble. His production will decrease.

If his production does not decrease, it will be coming at the cost of Tatum's production, Jaylen's production, Porzingis' production.

In a reduced role as a 4th option, what production can you realistically expect of Jrue Holiday? 15ppg 6apg? About what Smart did in the post-season.

[Roy H.]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

Why would we have to trade Al or Timelord?

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

He would provide better scoring, defense, passing and shooting, yes.

Last year (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2023&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

Last three years (scroll down):  https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2021&year_max=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=smartma01

But, the bigger thing:  our team last year + Porzingis (but minus Brogdon) would have been pretty stacked.

Jrue is not going to score as much as a 4th option as he did in Milwaukee. There are not as many shot attempts. There are not as many opportunities to create off the dribble. His production will decrease.

If his production does not decrease, it will be coming at the cost of Tatum's production, Jaylen's production, Porzingis' production.

In a reduced role as a 4th option, what production can you realistically expect of Jrue Holiday? 15ppg 6apg? About what Smart did in the post-season.

Why use Marcus's post season stats, which increased due to injuries and increased playing time?  That seems like fuzzy math.

15.0 ppg in the regular season would be a 30% scoring increase over Marcus, and Jrue played much, much better defense last year, as well.  Add in that teams would have to cover Jrue rather than sagging off Marcus, and it's a pretty big increase in productivity.

[Atzar]

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

To add to this, jrue is definitely better than brogdon, but is jrue minus brogdon minus rob/al minus whatever else still better for this team?

Does not compute for me.

Why would we have to trade Al or Timelord?

If Jrue were to come here, he'd be the 4th option behind Tatum, Jaylen and Porzingis.

As the 4th option, does Jrue really provide much more than Marcus Smart did for the team last season?

He would provide better scoring, defense, passing and shooting, yes.

But, the bigger thing:  our team last year + Porzingis (but minus Brogdon) would have been pretty stacked.

Because I don't want to trade tatum or brown? 

I kid but it doesn't look like we can trade for jrue even if we included brogdon and everyone else not tied down.  I tried a 7 for 1, which is kinda ridiculous, and still did not have enough salary.  Plus, how many first rounder we gonna include?

So logically, we're talking Al or Rob or, I guess White.

In theory, we can S&T Blake Griffin and it would juuust sneak us up to the salary needed without surrendering Al or Rob. 

In practice, I still don't understand why Portland is interested in that deal unless we just throw our whole library of available picks at them (and to be fair, that's basically how Milwaukee got Jrue in the first place).  I don't see us as a match, personally.  But it's fun to think about.