Patriots 2023 Season

[Moranis]

I'm done with Belichick. He drafted Dobson over Allen or the Honey Badger. Sony Michel over Nick Chubb or Lamar Jackson. N'Keal over DK Metcalf or AJ Brown.

Ego? Benching Malcolm Butler in the Superbowl just to prove a point, and wasted another year of Brady and his 505 passing yards that game.

Hiring garbage coaches like Matt 'pencil guy' Patricia and Joe Judge to manage Mac Jones? Having Josh McDumb- coordinating the offense? Brady masked all of their issues. Shannon Sharpe is right, Brady responsible for most of NE's success. Belichick could've just called it quits after their last SB win, and now his legacy is ruined post-Brady.

He won Superbowls long before Tom was the GOAT. Was 11-5 with Matt Cassel. And has been about .500 without enough talent and with an under-skilled coaching staff since Tom’s departure. I can’t argue with his GM blunders, but his coaching career has been magnificent.  It may be time to go, but I’m still curious as to what he does with this injured team - physically and emotionally - a flustered QB, a porous o-line, a mediocre receiving crew, and a fed-up fan base.

he hasn't won superbowls without Tom.  Tom has always been Tom, he just wasn't the GOAT until he had the stats and winning to support it,  but even in those early SB's when they barely threw the ball, Tom came up huge when the team needed him to.  That is what a great QB does, he comes through in the clutch and covers up roster weaknesses.

Such an oversimplification. Parcells doesn't do any favors. He wouldn't have handpicked Belichick to coach the Giants D unless he didn't have confidence that he would be a good coach. Belichick went on to surpass any of these expectations. Taking shots at Bill in his 70's, at this point, is predictable and cheap. Trying to isolate Bill and TB12 from their 6 SB victories draws an incomplete picture.

Bill was a failed coach and GM in Cleveland before he ended up in New England. If he doesn't end up with Tom, he would have been a failed coach in New England as well.  Guys get second chances all the time, and guys win with HOFers as well, it just hard to end up with a HOFer. Bill found the best to ever to do it.  That buys you a lot of good will, but it is readily apparent what Bill without Tom is, and that is a horrid GM and a poor head coach.  Still an all time great defensive coach, but there is more to being a head coach than having a great defense. Is Kenny Pickett any better than Mac Jones?  Clearly the Steelers have some better WR's, but is the defense as a whole better.  The OL isn't much better.  The Steelers after beating the Ravens today are in 1st place.  Tomlin was above .500 last year with Pickett as a rookie and Tomlin has never been below .500 in any season in his career.  Sure most of that time he had Ben, but Ben while very good QB with a HOF career, was never considered a top 3 QB in the game and was often outside of the top 5. Yet there Tomlin was winning division after division and picking up a SB along the way.   Reid won a lot with McNabb in Philly, but never could over the top and was let go.  He goes to KC, and finds a guy that is as talented as we've ever seen and is well on his way to a dynasty.  QB is the most important position there is.  When you have a great QB they just mask so many problems including a poor GM and a coach who lets his own ego get in the way.

[SparzWizard]

Rock bottom?

Yep.

Fire Belichick. And start tanking.

I'm not convinced firing Belichick will do anything for this season. That seems reactionary and emotional.

I don't think they need to tank. They are getting smoked while pretending to care. Start Zappe, play as many young, hungry guys as possible, and Caleb can be had without tanking.

He won't get fired in-season. But there's no way if they finish 6-11 or worse (which seems likely) that he deserves another season. And at that rate, it'll take him another two seasons after this to reach Shula's record. Enough. This team is about to become a joke soon and fans will start to lose interest and not attend games if they already haven't. The team has been pretty boring for a while now too.

It might sound like a hot take and emotional, but go on social media now. And even the national media has been discussing all this over the past week. Same with the commentators in today's broadcast. Belichick is getting pansted pretty regularly including on primetime games. That was a "supposed advantage" but that's no longer the case. Teams look at the Pats now as a "get right game" and at Belichick as "just another guy" and past his prime

Pats look like the 2008 Lions, the 2014 Jaguars and the likes of those rock bottom teams from the past.

[Moranis]

I'm done with Belichick. He drafted Dobson over Allen or the Honey Badger. Sony Michel over Nick Chubb or Lamar Jackson. N'Keal over DK Metcalf or AJ Brown.

Ego? Benching Malcolm Butler in the Superbowl just to prove a point, and wasted another year of Brady and his 505 passing yards that game.

Hiring garbage coaches like Matt 'pencil guy' Patricia and Joe Judge to manage Mac Jones? Having Josh McDumb- coordinating the offense? Brady masked all of their issues. Shannon Sharpe is right, Brady responsible for most of NE's success. Belichick could've just called it quits after their last SB win, and now his legacy is ruined post-Brady.

He won Superbowls long before Tom was the GOAT. Was 11-5 with Matt Cassel. And has been about .500 without enough talent and with an under-skilled coaching staff since Tom’s departure. I can’t argue with his GM blunders, but his coaching career has been magnificent.  It may be time to go, but I’m still curious as to what he does with this injured team - physically and emotionally - a flustered QB, a porous o-line, a mediocre receiving crew, and a fed-up fan base.

he hasn't won superbowls without Tom.  Tom has always been Tom, he just wasn't the GOAT until he had the stats and winning to support it,  but even in those early SB's when they barely threw the ball, Tom came up huge when the team needed him to.  That is what a great QB does, he comes through in the clutch and covers up roster weaknesses.

Yeah, Popovich sucks, too. No Duncan, no championships. Spurs should fire Pop because he is an embarrassment to the league with how bad his team is 

I think there is a real question about how good Pop is.  He has gotten progressively worse since TD retired and he never coached before TD. 

[green_bballers13]

I'm done with Belichick. He drafted Dobson over Allen or the Honey Badger. Sony Michel over Nick Chubb or Lamar Jackson. N'Keal over DK Metcalf or AJ Brown.

Ego? Benching Malcolm Butler in the Superbowl just to prove a point, and wasted another year of Brady and his 505 passing yards that game.

Hiring garbage coaches like Matt 'pencil guy' Patricia and Joe Judge to manage Mac Jones? Having Josh McDumb- coordinating the offense? Brady masked all of their issues. Shannon Sharpe is right, Brady responsible for most of NE's success. Belichick could've just called it quits after their last SB win, and now his legacy is ruined post-Brady.

He won Superbowls long before Tom was the GOAT. Was 11-5 with Matt Cassel. And has been about .500 without enough talent and with an under-skilled coaching staff since Tom’s departure. I can’t argue with his GM blunders, but his coaching career has been magnificent.  It may be time to go, but I’m still curious as to what he does with this injured team - physically and emotionally - a flustered QB, a porous o-line, a mediocre receiving crew, and a fed-up fan base.

he hasn't won superbowls without Tom.  Tom has always been Tom, he just wasn't the GOAT until he had the stats and winning to support it,  but even in those early SB's when they barely threw the ball, Tom came up huge when the team needed him to.  That is what a great QB does, he comes through in the clutch and covers up roster weaknesses.

Such an oversimplification. Parcells doesn't do any favors. He wouldn't have handpicked Belichick to coach the Giants D unless he didn't have confidence that he would be a good coach. Belichick went on to surpass any of these expectations. Taking shots at Bill in his 70's, at this point, is predictable and cheap. Trying to isolate Bill and TB12 from their 6 SB victories draws an incomplete picture.

Bill was a failed coach and GM in Cleveland before he ended up in New England. If he doesn't end up with Tom, he would have been a failed coach in New England as well.  Guys get second chances all the time, and guys win with HOFers as well, it just hard to end up with a HOFer. Bill found the best to ever to do it.  That buys you a lot of good will, but it is readily apparent what Bill without Tom is, and that is a horrid GM and a poor head coach.  Still an all time great defensive coach, but there is more to being a head coach than having a great defense. Is Kenny Pickett any better than Mac Jones?  Clearly the Steelers have some better WR's, but is the defense as a whole better.  The OL isn't much better.  The Steelers after beating the Ravens today are in 1st place.  Tomlin was above .500 last year with Pickett as a rookie and Tomlin has never been below .500 in any season in his career.  Sure most of that time he had Ben, but Ben while very good QB with a HOF career, was never considered a top 3 QB in the game and was often outside of the top 5. Yet there Tomlin was winning division after division and picking up a SB along the way.   Reid won a lot with McNabb in Philly, but never could over the top and was let go.  He goes to KC, and finds a guy that is as talented as we've ever seen and is well on his way to a dynasty.  QB is the most important position there is.  When you have a great QB they just mask so many problems including a poor GM and a coach who lets his own ego get in the way.

Luckily he had Brady for two decades. Those 20 years were wonderful.

[Birdman]

Good ole butt whopping

[Goldstar88]

Rock bottom?

Yep.

Fire Belichick. And start tanking.

I'm not convinced firing Belichick will do anything for this season. That seems reactionary and emotional.

I don't think they need to tank. They are getting smoked while pretending to care. Start Zappe, play as many young, hungry guys as possible, and Caleb can be had without tanking.

He won't get fired in-season. But there's no way if they finish 6-11 or worse (which seems likely) that he deserves another season. And at that rate, it'll take him another two seasons after this to reach Shula's record. Enough. This team is about to become a joke soon and fans will start to lose interest and not attend games if they already haven't. The team has been pretty boring for a while now too.

It might sound like a hot take and emotional, but go on social media now. And even the national media has been discussing all this over the past week. Same with the commentators in today's broadcast. Belichick is getting pansted pretty regularly including on primetime games. That was a "supposed advantage" but that's no longer the case. Teams look at the Pats now as a "get right game" and at Belichick as "just another guy" and past his prime

So you simultaneously want to fire Belichick for losing games, yet wish the Pats keep losing games so we get a better pick? You realise that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

How about we keep Bill, keep losing, and give him another generational QB prospect?

Give Bill another 1st round QB to ruin? All set with that. The team looks like they are quitting on him at this point. The defense isn’t even good.

[Phantom255x]

Rock bottom?

Yep.

Fire Belichick. And start tanking.

I'm not convinced firing Belichick will do anything for this season. That seems reactionary and emotional.

I don't think they need to tank. They are getting smoked while pretending to care. Start Zappe, play as many young, hungry guys as possible, and Caleb can be had without tanking.

He won't get fired in-season. But there's no way if they finish 6-11 or worse (which seems likely) that he deserves another season. And at that rate, it'll take him another two seasons after this to reach Shula's record. Enough. This team is about to become a joke soon and fans will start to lose interest and not attend games if they already haven't. The team has been pretty boring for a while now too.

It might sound like a hot take and emotional, but go on social media now. And even the national media has been discussing all this over the past week. Same with the commentators in today's broadcast. Belichick is getting pansted pretty regularly including on primetime games. That was a "supposed advantage" but that's no longer the case. Teams look at the Pats now as a "get right game" and at Belichick as "just another guy" and past his prime

So you simultaneously want to fire Belichick for losing games, yet wish the Pats keep losing games so we get a better pick? You realise that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

How about we keep Bill, keep losing, and give him another generational QB prospect?

I mean the sad reality is, this team may not need to tank, they just suck anyways 

And I mean, they drafted Mac Jones as a first round QB and he had a very promising rookie season. Then everything since then has mostly been due to Belichick's negligence with the roster and coaching (Judge/Patricia, himself, etc.). How confident can anyone be that he can actually build a team around the QB (Caleb or Maye) and put them in a position to succeed right now. This isn't 10 years ago with TB12.

I also agree with Goldstar88 above, I think the players will soon quit on him if they haven't already. Many of them were already frustrated after 2022 (look at the Herald article), and now they are 1-4 and BB would rather bench one of our better receivers (Douglas) for an entire game just to make a point. Some of the talented guys on our team have also regressed, but is that really because the player was overrated to begin with, or the Pats aren't using them properly? Some guys recently who have left in FA are thriving elsewhere and doing very well (Meyers, Jonnu Smith, etc.)

[SparzWizard]

Forget basking on the Jets, the Patriots look more pathetic in the AFC East and are the laughingstock in the division and perhaps the NFL now.

They just killed Denver on the road.

[Moranis]

Mac may actually be the worst starting QB in the sport.  Even I thought those pre-season rankings having him at like 28th were a bit harsh, but they seem spot on.  Mac is terrible.

[green_bballers13]

Mac may actually be the worst starting QB in the sport.  Even I thought those pre-season rankings having him at like 28th were a bit harsh, but they seem spot on.  Mac is terrible.

Yeah, he's not good. I don't see the point of starting him anymore. Give Zappe a chance to run around and prove something. Start all of the young guys and let them get some experience. Draft the best possible QB and start over with a new coach next year. Let Belichick retire or go somewhere else to break the record. At this point of the season with these injuries, they need to think about next year.

[JSD]

“Tanking club for Caleb”

“Eat no grub for Caleb”

“Scrub sub for Caleb”

I could keep going.

[celticsclay]

I think one of the dumbest things anyone can do as a sport fan is revisionist history. Is it possible it is time for Bill to retire? absolutely. Is it possible his coaching and eye for talent has significantly slipped as he as he entered his 70's? Also, absolutely. However, acting like Brady stepped in as a hall of famer when the Patriots beat the Rams or just closing glossing over the super bowl the Patriots won when they scored 13 points? That ridiculous. Like have even a basic understanding of the sport if you are going to comment. Bill was a very good coach for a very long time. I get he annoys people cause he is surly and he comes off as arrogant etc. Don't make yourself look like a complete fool by acting like he was never a good coach for these reasons. Some of this stuff is embarrassing to read as a regular on this forum.

[Celtics2021]

Forget basking on the Jets, the Patriots look more pathetic in the AFC East and are the laughingstock in the division and perhaps the NFL now.

They just killed Denver on the road.

And thus Denver is the greater laughingstock than the Patriots.  The Pats have at least generally played good teams.  Their opponents are 11-9 in games not against New England.  The Broncos opponents are 5-14 when not racking up wins against Denver.

But it is looking very bleak for New England.

[Kuberski33]

It doesn't matter who's coaching the team. This is the least talented Patriot offense that I can ever remember. The line is so poor that it's impossible to run an offense. They can't pass block and they can't run block. Whether Mac can play or not (he can't) makes no difference because having no line means you can't move the ball. Of course they also have a roster full of 3rd and 4th receivers so forget about going down field. And oh by the way, Mac has a week arm, isn't mobile and makes poor decisions.

There is no way out of this this season.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I really didn’t think that this year’s Pats could be worse than last year’s, but I was wrong. The O-line is bad, but I think it goes beyond that to bad players at other positions, and also that GM Bill seems to have no sense of urgency re: the O-line.