2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP!

[Roy H.]

Elton Brand: Woah, I was not expecting this pick lol. Brand is a really fun player though, who's all around game was very polished. For a guy who was only 6'9", he rebounded and blocked shots like a beast.

More like 6-7. They listed him at 6-8 and that was with the extra inch or inch and a half for shoes. Freaky long arms though. He had the reach of a center. 7 foot 5 inches and a half wingspan. Unreal. He had the reach of 9 foot 2 inches. That is a good reach for a center.

Similar with Zo. Zo only 6-9 and a half but has a 7-6 and a half wingspan. What allowed him block so many shots despite being an undersized center.

Yeah, I think I mentioned, Zo was the guy I had hoped for.  My second choice probably would have been Webber, a completely different type of player.

But I've loved Elton Brand for a long time.  The list of guys who can put up 25 / 10 with 2.5 blocks is pretty small.  And, according to BBR, one of his nicknames is "Chief Beef", which makes me love him even more.

[tazzmaniac]

There are two players in particular that I am shocked did not get picked in the 1st round. Tomorrow should be fun, a lot of high end talent still available.

Three of my top five 'overall highest ranked' players are still available, which would seem to suggest that they're being slept on relative to their peers, but one of them I'll be taking this evening, one I expect to go shortly after and the other one, well, I would have a significantly harder time getting excited to rhetorically defend compared to my first-round pick.

It could mean that you are overvaluing them.  Have you made a 1st round pick? 

[Who]

I wanna give Penny a bit of love on his 1997 series against the Miami Heat. He played my man Zo and Penny was the best player on the floor in that series.

5 games - 31ppg 6rpg 3.4apg 2.4spg 47% FG% 37% 3PT% 57.5% TS%

Now I want to compare that to another series my man Zo played in 1997. This time against MJ in the ECF.

5 games - 30.2ppg 8.2rpg 2.6apg 1.8spg 39% FG% 47.5% TS%

That Miami team played some of the toughest defense on MJ I've seen any playoff team do against him. They played against a similar player in Penny in first round and couldn't do anything with him. Penny was too good. His handles. His extra range on his jumper. The fear of his passing. He tore them apart. Too unpredictable.

Orlando were without their best big man in that series. Lost their 2nd best big man midway though the series. And still almost knocked off Miami (61 wins 21 losses that season) led by Penny's superb effort.

[Kernewek]

There are two players in particular that I am shocked did not get picked in the 1st round. Tomorrow should be fun, a lot of high end talent still available.

Three of my top five 'overall highest ranked' players are still available, which would seem to suggest that they're being slept on relative to their peers, but one of them I'll be taking this evening, one I expect to go shortly after and the other one, well, I would have a significantly harder time getting excited to rhetorically defend compared to my first-round pick.

It could mean that you are overvaluing them.  Have you made a 1st round pick?

It might mean that, but considering that the rankings I refer to are essentially an aggregate score compiling individual awards, presence on all NBA teams, and so on - and the guy I picked in the first round (Sheed) didn't account for a placement in the top 400 or so (I wasn't lying about that), I suspect the reality is more knotty.

[RPGenerate]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

[Moranis]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

Sure, but as I said in those threads that quote kind of confirms what I've always thought of TMac i.e. an uber talented player that was selfish and never put the work in to be as great as he could have been.  Whenever it got tough, he bailed, and he never won a single playoff series.  How does someone that talented end up with talent resume.  If he had the desire of the all time greats, he'd have been one, instead of just another guy in the HOF.

[RPGenerate]

T-Mac was in a pretty terrible situation with Orlando. Those teams were putrid, with a young [redacted] being his best teammates. In a traditional historical draft, would I dock major points for not being able to lift his team higher? Sure, but this draft with much less overall high end talent. Getting a guy that does have that sort of all-time talent is very valuable to me, even if he has some weak points. I think his Houston time shows that he could play with better teammates and fit in a system.

[Roy H.]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

Sure, but as I said in those threads that quote kind of confirms what I've always thought of TMac i.e. an uber talented player that was selfish and never put the work in to be as great as he could have been.  Whenever it got tough, he bailed, and he never won a single playoff series.  How does someone that talented end up with talent resume.  If he had the desire of the all time greats, he'd have been one, instead of just another guy in the HOF.

How can you forget his epic contributions to the Spurs Finals team?  If Ray Allen doesn't hit a clutch shot, TMac has a ring, haha.

[theswitch]

Would caution names on the TMac point - could see at least one of those guys drafted.

[Kernewek]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

Sure, but as I said in those threads that quote kind of confirms what I've always thought of TMac i.e. an uber talented player that was selfish and never put the work in to be as great as he could have been.  Whenever it got tough, he bailed, and he never won a single playoff series.  How does someone that talented end up with talent resume.  If he had the desire of the all time greats, he'd have been one, instead of just another guy in the HOF.

How can you forget his epic contributions to the Spurs Finals team?  If Ray Allen doesn't hit a clutch shot, TMac has a ring, haha.

Stats don't lie:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/gamelog/2013#pgl_basic_playoffs

[Donoghus]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

Sure, but as I said in those threads that quote kind of confirms what I've always thought of TMac i.e. an uber talented player that was selfish and never put the work in to be as great as he could have been.  Whenever it got tough, he bailed, and he never won a single playoff series.  How does someone that talented end up with talent resume.  If he had the desire of the all time greats, he'd have been one, instead of just another guy in the HOF.

How can you forget his epic contributions to the Spurs Finals team?  If Ray Allen doesn't hit a clutch shot, TMac has a ring, haha.

Stats don't lie:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/gamelog/2013#pgl_basic_playoffs

Holy hell

[RPGenerate]

I will say, I think it's a bit unfair to use the Pitino quote against T-Mac. What a player says ten years after his career is over doesn't mean much to me.

Sure, but as I said in those threads that quote kind of confirms what I've always thought of TMac i.e. an uber talented player that was selfish and never put the work in to be as great as he could have been.  Whenever it got tough, he bailed, and he never won a single playoff series.  How does someone that talented end up with talent resume.  If he had the desire of the all time greats, he'd have been one, instead of just another guy in the HOF.

How can you forget his epic contributions to the Spurs Finals team?  If Ray Allen doesn't hit a clutch shot, TMac has a ring, haha.

Stats don't lie:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/gamelog/2013#pgl_basic_playoffs

Haha. Put some respect on that man, he was +21 in those minutes 

[Who]

T-Mac was in a pretty terrible situation with Orlando. Those teams were putrid, with a young Mike Miller and Darrell Armstrong being his best teammates. In a traditional historical draft, would I dock major points for not being able to lift his team higher? Sure, but this draft with much less overall high end talent. Getting a guy that does have that sort of all-time talent is very valuable to me, even if he has some weak points. I think his Houston time shows that he could play with better teammates and fit in a system.

... and still fail to win a playoff series

[Roy H.]

Would caution names on the TMac point - could see at least one of those guys drafted.

I edited one post.  Let me know if you see other eligible players mentioned.

[Who]

One of the interesting things about this draft is that all of these guys got flaws. None of them are as well-rounded as the usual guys we get in these Historical Drafts.

My guy Zo for instance can't pass the ball. So I can't run the offense through him in the block. It was a problem for Miami throughout his time there. Their offense would stutter and stagnate because Zo couldn't handle double teams down on the box. He is an okay passer in the high post but a miserable passer in the low post out of double teams. It was his biggest flaw that held him back relative to other top centers of both his era and all-time.

The same is true for T-Mac, G-Hill, Webber, Dwight, Pau, Sheed ... and so on. All have some variety of flaws. And the guys that are coming in future rounds will have even bigger flaws (defense, selfishness, shooting range, passing, rebounding) than the guys taken so far.

This is what will make team composition so interesting. How you create some balance & teamwork around the various flaws of these guys.