Report: Lillard requests trade

[BringToughnessBack]

Sounds like Riley wins again. As if they weren’t going to get him.
Wonder which 3rd team is sending firsts, has to be Nets? Only in this players league, could Herro get you Lillard.


https://hoopshype.com/2023/07/02/tyler-herro-removes-miami-heat-guard-from-bio-and-changes-header/

 All me crazy,  but does Herro even have positive value? Strus, Martin, and Vincent looked pretty darn good taking his minutes for far less money.

If Herro was a free agent,  would he get more than $20m?

Yeah, its wild. Nets would be foolish to send multiple firsts. Heat vs Celtics will be one hell of a conference finals again.

[Who]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

[Who]

Sounds like Riley wins again. As if they weren’t going to get him.
Wonder which 3rd team is sending firsts, has to be Nets? Only in this players league, could Herro get you Lillard.


https://hoopshype.com/2023/07/02/tyler-herro-removes-miami-heat-guard-from-bio-and-changes-header/

 All me crazy,  but does Herro even have positive value? Strus, Martin, and Vincent looked pretty darn good taking his minutes for far less money.

If Herro was a free agent,  would he get more than $20m?

Herro has been disappointing. He hasn't been able to grow his game enough. He is a nice player but he needs more efficiency and/or defense.

It is tough as a small SG. He has got to get stronger. Look at guys like Joe Dumars or Eric Gordon who have that big body to bang with taller SGs. Herro needs that if he can't lift his scoring efficiency.

If this trade doesn't happen, I'd like to see Miami try to redeploy Herro as a PG in a bigger starting lineup to replace Gabe Vincent. His lack of size at SG is not an issue at PG. He is an average or slightly above average size PG. Miami uses Jimmy as their main playmaker anyway and Bam as their 2nd main passing hub so Herro is an ideal situation for a makeshift PG to work well. Heck, that is why G Vincent worked well. He was a makeshift PG as well. He has little to no playmaking / passing ability.

I am not too down on Herro but I am a bit down on him. I was surprised his salary was only $27mil which isn't that much more than Brogdon. I feel they are reasonable comps. Miami paid extra because Herro was young so they paid for potential. That potential may not happen in which case Herro is overpaid by $5mil or so per annum. An understable risk to take although it may backfire.

The main disappointment for me is that he hasn't grown into being the 2nd scoring option behind Jimmy. Herro is more of a 3rd scorer. He isn't efficient enough to be the #2 guy. His shooting efficiency is very good but he never gets to the foul line so his overall scoring efficiency ain't so good. Just 56% TS% these past two years. I do like his handles and secondary playmaking which add offensive value behind his TS% and do make him a good positive contributor on offense.

But for him to grow and be worth that contract, he has to either improve his scoring efficiency and/or his defense.

[CelticsWhat35]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

[Who]

Main issue in my view for Portland with Herro is they have a very similar player in Anfernee Simons who they also gave a huge contract too. So you don't want two similar guys both kinda overpaid for what they do.

Plus, there are already concerns that Shaedon Sharpe is a better long term prospect at SG than A Simons. That would also be true of Herro as well given how similar Herro and A Simons are.

If POR did not have A Simons (or S Sharpe), Herro would be much more valuable to them.

A 3rd team would be ideal here because the return of Herro & picks for Lillard is solid. It is more a question of fit than a question of value in my eyes. So can they get a 3rd team in and get someone that fits their roster better. A young SF or big man. Or PF since J Grant can shift back to SF himself. So any frontcourt piece would do.

[Who]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

I don't know. Why do they have no picks? I can't think of any big trade they have made in recent years.

That would change things if they don't have picks to add in.

[Neurotic Guy]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Well, hopefully not. 

And no it isn’t a good talent return for Lillard (a top 15 player) at all. It works, in part, because Lillard has declared this is where he wants to go - implication being he doesn’t particularly want to go somewhere else. If you are a GM from somewhere else considering sending one of your best players (which is what it should take) to get Lillard you second guess the wisdom of doing so because you’re trading for someone who has declared he doesn’t want to play for you. Of course it doesn't mean Lillard won’t be a professional about it, but certainly would make me wonder if he’d be whining and requesting another trade in short time. 

[tazzmaniac]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

I don't know. Why do they have no picks? I can't think of any big trade they have made in recent years.

That would change things if they don't have picks to add in.

OKC gets Miami's 2025 pick (top 14 protected) or their 2026 pick.  Miami doesn't have any other teams 1sts.  So the earliest pick that they can trade is their 2028 pick. 

[tazzmaniac]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Lillard is just about to turn 33 after finishing 3rd in scoring this past season.  That's not old.  Miami doesn't have a bunch of picks to trade.  That's why there is talk of pulling in a 3rd team.  However Herro shouldn't be worth more that a single protected 1st to any team. 

[kraidstar]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

The Suns trade:
Bridges, Johnson, Crowder (retraded for 2 Bucks 2nds), Noah Clowney (Suns 2023 1st, picked #21),
 2025 1st, 2027 1st, 2028 1st swap, and 2029 1st. All unprotected.

For 34yo KD and a declining TJ Warren, who they only have early bird rights for in 2024.

Proposed Heat trade:
Herro, Robinson/Lowry, 2027 1st, 2029 1st, + swaps in 2028 and 2030

For 33yo Lillard

I'd say Cam Johnson is a bit better than Herro. He's 4 years older, but a better physical specimen due to athleticism and size. Also a better shooter with a .617 TS last year compared to Herro's .566 TS. He's under contract for 4 more years at $27m per. Herro is 4 years at $30m. It also alarms me a bit that Herro really hasn't improved at all the last couple years.

So even if we were to assume Cam and Herro are equal, Brooklyn also got 2023 #21 pick Noah Clowney, 1 extra first, 2 2nds... and Michael Bridges, a borderlone star in his own right. And Brooklyn didn't have to take on garbage contracts like Robinson or Lowry.

[jpotter33]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

But they literally don’t lol You’re really overrating Herro on a huge, long-term contract for a rebuilding team who already has several guards they want to further develop in front of him. And with the picks Miami owes, I think they can only send out 2027 and 2029 1st round picks and then offer swaps.

Harden to Brooklyn got Houston I believe 4 1sts, 4 1st swaps, and then some 2nds and a young player. Brooklyn got two great young building blocks with Bridges and Johnson + 4 1sts and a 1st swap.

The Heat package is not even in the same stratosphere as those two packages or the AD package, and Dame’s market is absolutely in that same range.

[jpotter33]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

The Suns trade:
Bridges, Johnson, Crowder (retraded for 2 Bucks 2nds), and 2025 1st, 2027 1st, 2028 1st swap, and 2029 1st. All unprotected.

For KD and a declining TJ Warren, who they only have early bird rights for in 2024.

Proposed Heat trade:
Herro, Robinson/Lowry, 2027 1st, 2029 1st

I'd say Cam Johnson is a bit better than Herro. He's 4 years older, but a better physical specimen due to athleticism and size. Also a better shooter with a .617 TS last year compared to Herro's .566 TS. He's under contract for 4 more years at $27m per. Herro is 4 years at $30m. It also alarms me a bit that Herro really hasn't improved at all the last couple years.

So even if we were to assume Cam and Herro are equal, Brooklyn also got 1 extra first, 1 extra swap, 2 2nds... and Michael Bridges, a borderlone star in his own right.

I believe Brooklyn got the 2023 1st round pick, too. So that’s 2 extra first round picks.

[kraidstar]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Herro is nowhere near on par with Lillard.  Even at the end of his bloated contract, Dame will still be better.  Also, don’t the Heat not have a 1st to give up for like 5 years?

The Suns trade:
Bridges, Johnson, Crowder (retraded for 2 Bucks 2nds), and 2025 1st, 2027 1st, 2028 1st swap, and 2029 1st. All unprotected.

For KD and a declining TJ Warren, who they only have early bird rights for in 2024.

Proposed Heat trade:
Herro, Robinson/Lowry, 2027 1st, 2029 1st

I'd say Cam Johnson is a bit better than Herro. He's 4 years older, but a better physical specimen due to athleticism and size. Also a better shooter with a .617 TS last year compared to Herro's .566 TS. He's under contract for 4 more years at $27m per. Herro is 4 years at $30m. It also alarms me a bit that Herro really hasn't improved at all the last couple years.

So even if we were to assume Cam and Herro are equal, Brooklyn also got 1 extra first, 1 extra swap, 2 2nds... and Michael Bridges, a borderlone star in his own right.

I believe Brooklyn got the 2023 1st round pick, too. So that’s 2 extra first round picks.

TP
Good catch. Noah Clowney at #21. Just added that to my post

[tonydelk]

I don't see any difference between what Lillard is doing and what Durant did to get to Phoenix. This looks like normal service to me.

Miami have a good offer with Herro & a bunch of picks. Lillard is an old small guard who is paid a boatload of cash. That is a good return for him. Now POR may not be interested in it but they are not being offered crap. They are being offered a good return. So hopefully the teams can find a 3rd team to make it work.

Didn't KD give Brooklyn a list of teams versus Dame stating send me to the Suns or I'm not playing?  To me that's a big difference.  I would send him anywhere else just to prove a point if I was Portland. 

[Who]

The Heat package is not even in the same stratosphere as those two packages or the AD package, and Dame’s market is absolutely in that same range.

Dame is not in the same stratosphere as a 25/26 year old Anthony Davis. That is why AD netted NOP so much.

Nor is Dame in the same stratosphere as Kevin Durant. Similar age yes but not similar games. Durant is 6-11 vs a 6-2 guard and is a generational talent which Lillard is not. A former MVP who is still playing like a top 5 player in the league. Lillard is still playing at a great level as well, at a top 10 player in the league level, but that is another level below Durant + Lillard will have a much harder time maintaining that level of play moving forward as a 6-2 guard than a 6-11 Durant will.

Harden was only 31 when he moved to Brooklyn and still playing at an MVP level. The trade package Philly gave for Harden is closer to Lillard's value.

Lillard's value is lower than all these guys. He is earning so much money. $45mil this year up to $63mil in four years time when he is 36 years old. That is putting a massive dent in his trade market value.