Author Topic: NBA Off-Season News  (Read 127272 times)

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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #285 on: August 14, 2023, 03:09:08 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Is James Harden the All Time NBA Loser or what...?
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #286 on: August 14, 2023, 03:45:18 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Is James Harden the All Time NBA Loser or what...?

He might be. Guys that come to mind: Stephon Marbury, Vin Baker, and Darko. All three had talent and underperformed.
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #287 on: August 14, 2023, 03:52:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Is James Harden the All Time NBA Loser or what...?

He might be. Guys that come to mind: Stephon Marbury, Vin Baker, and Darko. All three had talent and underperformed.

Is this calling baker a loser cause he had a drinking problem or something else?

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #288 on: August 14, 2023, 03:58:07 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Is James Harden the All Time NBA Loser or what...?

He might be. Guys that come to mind: Stephon Marbury, Vin Baker, and Darko. All three had talent and underperformed.

Is this calling baker a loser cause he had a drinking problem or something else?

Yeah, clarification on Baker would be helpful here.


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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #289 on: August 14, 2023, 04:03:16 PM »

Offline gouki88

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What a delightful development!
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #290 on: August 14, 2023, 04:40:20 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Is James Harden the All Time NBA Loser or what...?

He might be. Guys that come to mind: Stephon Marbury, Vin Baker, and Darko. All three had talent and underperformed.

Is this calling baker a loser cause he had a drinking problem or something else?

Not to pile on, because I'm pretty sure this was just an off-the-cuff statement about relative NBA output, but I think most of us would say it's a bit unfair for Stephon Marbury to be categorised as a loser for struggling with depression, as well.

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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2023, 08:29:43 PM »

Offline ozgod

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 08:36:43 PM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #292 on: August 14, 2023, 11:44:06 PM »

Offline Moranis

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TMac is the all time NBA loser.  I don't think it is even close.  The guy never made it out of the first round when he was even a regular rotation player, let alone starter.  Didn't try defensively. Left franchises when it got hard.  He was basically a crappier version of Harden because at least Harden has some playoff success and is one of the more gifted passers in the sports history.
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #293 on: August 15, 2023, 04:18:14 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:

Yeah, it’s important to keep in mind that Harden was always going to opt in because the free agency landscape was pretty arid - I’m almost certain you’ve outlined the evolution of the discussions correctly, and I’m almost as certain there won’t be any proof. Otherwise Morey & Philly are going to be facing serious repercussions.
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #294 on: August 15, 2023, 04:38:49 AM »

Offline ozgod

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:

Yeah, it’s important to keep in mind that Harden was always going to opt in because the free agency landscape was pretty arid - I’m almost certain you’ve outlined the evolution of the discussions correctly, and I’m almost as certain there won’t be any proof. Otherwise Morey & Philly are going to be facing serious repercussions.

No way Morey is dumb enough to leave tracks. I can believe James being naive enough to believe him on a verbal though. GMs are like countries, they don't have friends - they have interests  :angel:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #295 on: August 15, 2023, 06:20:11 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:

Yeah, it’s important to keep in mind that Harden was always going to opt in because the free agency landscape was pretty arid - I’m almost certain you’ve outlined the evolution of the discussions correctly, and I’m almost as certain there won’t be any proof. Otherwise Morey & Philly are going to be facing serious repercussions.

Let's also not forget that Harden had his eye on free agency the second the Sixers got bounced. He failed in yet another city, and, again, it was apparently not his fault.

Then he seemingly strikes out in free agency and comes crawling back to the Sixers, wanting whatever original deal was discussed the prior offseason.

But the Sixers had also reevaluated their relationship after losing to Boston. Imo the Sixers would take him back on a more reasonable deal but don't want to nuke their cap for several years on a max deal.

So they sign him with the intent to either trade him or let him expire alongside Tobias Harris's contract next summer, giving them a max cap slot.

Harden of course wants to be traded to LA, as it has the best strip clubs, and good late-night food to fill his belly after nights of heavy drinking.

But LA has crap assets,  and no other team makes a good offer for old fat Harden. Philly wants players back who will help them contend now, or they want expirings and picks. Neither deal materializes. So Philly ultimately decides it's better off trying to contend with Harden this year and then let him expire. Or maybe they patch things up and sign him to a mutually beneficial deal next summer.

Harden is angry about not getting his money and his strip clubs.

And so here we are.

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #296 on: August 15, 2023, 06:31:04 AM »

Offline cman88

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Harden will make this uncomfortable make no doubts about it. Remember how he acted in the end in Houston?

He's either gonna not show. Or he's gonna show up out of shape and dog it until he gets traded somewhere.

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #297 on: August 15, 2023, 06:38:33 AM »

Offline ozgod

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:

Yeah, it’s important to keep in mind that Harden was always going to opt in because the free agency landscape was pretty arid - I’m almost certain you’ve outlined the evolution of the discussions correctly, and I’m almost as certain there won’t be any proof. Otherwise Morey & Philly are going to be facing serious repercussions.

Let's also not forget that Harden had his eye on free agency the second the Sixers got bounced. He failed in yet another city, and, again, it was apparently not his fault.

Then he seemingly strikes out in free agency and comes crawling back to the Sixers, wanting whatever original deal was discussed the prior offseason.

But the Sixers had also reevaluated their relationship after losing to Boston. Imo the Sixers would take him back on a more reasonable deal but don't want to nuke their cap for several years on a max deal.

So they sign him with the intent to either trade him or let him expire alongside Tobias Harris's contract next summer, giving them a max cap slot.

Harden of course wants to be traded to LA, as it has the best strip clubs, and good late-night food to fill his belly after nights of heavy drinking.

But LA has crap assets,  and no other team makes a good offer for old fat Harden. Philly wants players back who will help them contend now, or they want expirings and picks. Neither deal materializes. So Philly ultimately decides it's better off trying to contend with Harden this year and then let him expire. Or maybe they patch things up and sign him to a mutually beneficial deal next summer.

Harden is angry about not getting his money and his strip clubs.

And so here we are.

And a declining Harden is exactly the type of player you don't want to max out with the new CBA and it's punitive second apron.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #298 on: August 15, 2023, 06:49:11 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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There seems to be some uncertainty as to what Morey's promise was. Was it:

A: Last year, promising to take care of Harden this summer if he took a paycut last year.

B: This year, opt into your contract and we'll trade you somewhere. Win-win. But the offers sucked. So Morey pulled the plug and said no trades. It does sound like Morey may have made this second promise.

Anyway, not sure which one Harden is referring to in terms of Morey being a liar.

I suspect it was first A, then B. Then neither promise came true. Players - especially players like Harden - probably don't just give up $15m, even if it is to sign his binky PJ Tucker. There was some informal agreement that he was going to get taken care of the following year. And as for the second, he had to have some belief that Morey was going to trade him after the first broken promise otherwise he wouldn't have opted in.

The second broken promise is what's put him in a tight spot now, as you say he can either show up and play for a guy who he thinks screwed him or not show and get fined by the guy who he thinks screwed him, or try and put 50 pounds on and be a malcontent to force them to trade him and tank his value, thus making it even harder for the guy who he thinks screwed him to trade him. Not a good position for James  :angel:

Yeah, it’s important to keep in mind that Harden was always going to opt in because the free agency landscape was pretty arid - I’m almost certain you’ve outlined the evolution of the discussions correctly, and I’m almost as certain there won’t be any proof. Otherwise Morey & Philly are going to be facing serious repercussions.

Let's also not forget that Harden had his eye on free agency the second the Sixers got bounced. He failed in yet another city, and, again, it was apparently not his fault.

Then he seemingly strikes out in free agency and comes crawling back to the Sixers, wanting whatever original deal was discussed the prior offseason.

But the Sixers had also reevaluated their relationship after losing to Boston. Imo the Sixers would take him back on a more reasonable deal but don't want to nuke their cap for several years on a max deal.

So they sign him with the intent to either trade him or let him expire alongside Tobias Harris's contract next summer, giving them a max cap slot.

Harden of course wants to be traded to LA, as it has the best strip clubs, and good late-night food to fill his belly after nights of heavy drinking.

But LA has crap assets,  and no other team makes a good offer for old fat Harden. Philly wants players back who will help them contend now, or they want expirings and picks. Neither deal materializes. So Philly ultimately decides it's better off trying to contend with Harden this year and then let him expire. Or maybe they patch things up and sign him to a mutually beneficial deal next summer.

Harden is angry about not getting his money and his strip clubs.

And so here we are.

Yeah - there are times when he's been more sympathetic (Brooklyn's unravelling was pretty clearly not his doing and he was probably right to leave OKC way back when) but I wouldn't say he's a particularly compelling player to root for. But I don't think he was seriously going to leave in free agency because comparative money wasn't there - it would have been a Dennis Schroeder situation.
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #299 on: August 15, 2023, 07:32:33 AM »

Offline cman88

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Maybe Morey did lie to him. It seems plausible considering he opted in to be traded. But it's like the boy who cried wolf. He's done this many times so who do you believe?

What a disaster "the process" has been