Brown Sticks With West

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Why do some want to protect horrible acts? Some might forget WW2, but I remember hearing my grandfather tell me how horrible Nazis and antisemitism were. I think this is getting lost. We used to think this stuff wasn’t good. DJT has opened the door for some to question how to be softer on hate crimes. “Good people on both sides.” I had a HS classmate tell me that at least DJT knows this is a white, Christian nation. I couldn’t believe he would say this out loud.

[Roy H.]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Almost all of the black celebrities advocating anti-semitism are referencing Farrakhan, knowingly or not. 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/nation-of-islam-farrakhan-in-his-own-words

It's crazy to me that you've only seen Farrakhan referenced by conservatives.  That's not a failing of you, it's of our media and our culture, not condemning one of the most influential bigots in America.

I hope you're right, that this is a sign of anti-semitism finally becoming an issue that mainstream culture takes seriously.  For many, many years, it's been the most "acceptable" form of bigotry (minus perhaps the anti-white and anti-Christian bigotry cited above.)

Why do some want to protect horrible acts? Some might forget WW2, but I remember hearing my grandfather tell me how horrible Nazis and antisemitism were. I think this is getting lost. We used to think this stuff wasn’t good. DJT has opened the door for some to question how to be softer on hate crimes. “Good people on both sides.” I had a HS classmate tell me that at least DJT knows this is a white, Christian nation. I couldn’t believe he would say this out loud.

I have no idea.  Throughout history, anti-semitism has thrived.  It extends beyond the dumb celebrities that we idolize, extending to politicians (Omar, Greene) and world leaders.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Almost all of the black celebrities advocating anti-semitism are referencing Farrakhan, knowingly or not. 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/nation-of-islam-farrakhan-in-his-own-words

It's crazy to me that you've only seen Farrakhan referenced by conservatives.  That's not a failing of you, it's of our media and our culture, not condemning one of the most influential bigots in America.

If he said death to Jews, he should be gone. Fortunately for me, I’ve never seen him on my TV or feed. He occupies the same space as Roseanne- not in my view. If Kanye follows, I’ll be fine.

We used to have a crazy guy in our town that said all sorts of whacky stuff. It wasn’t an issue because no one took him seriously and he didn’t have Twitter.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Almost all of the black celebrities advocating anti-semitism are referencing Farrakhan, knowingly or not. 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/nation-of-islam-farrakhan-in-his-own-words

It's crazy to me that you've only seen Farrakhan referenced by conservatives.  That's not a failing of you, it's of our media and our culture, not condemning one of the most influential bigots in America.

Double post

[Moranis]

Roy, I think a lot of the response to Cannon and West is how they reacted and responded after making the comments.  Cannon at least publicly acknowledged he was wrong, said he would educate himself, and at least appeared to show genuine remorse.  I have no idea if is remorseful, did educate himself, etc., but he at least made the public attempt to rectify the error of his ways (and he has stayed out of the limelight in that regard since, so maybe he did get the proper education).  West, not only didn't do that, he doubled down and made it worse.  Plus, West hasn't exactly been a stable pillar of society over the last few years to begin with.  The old saying that the action isn't as bad as the cover-up seems to apply to this situation.  Don't make it worse.  West made it worse, has continued to make it worse, and there is no reason to believe won't continue to make it worse in the future.  That is why you can justify cutting ties with West and giving Cannon a second chance. 

[Roy H.]

Roy, I think a lot of the response to Cannon and West is how they reacted and responded after making the comments.  Cannon at least publicly acknowledged he was wrong, said he would educate himself, and at least appeared to show genuine remorse.  I have no idea if is remorseful, did educate himself, etc., but he at least made the public attempt to rectify the error of his ways (and he has stayed out of the limelight in that regard since, so maybe he did get the proper education).  West, not only didn't do that, he doubled down and made it worse.  Plus, West hasn't exactly been a stable pillar of society over the last few years to begin with.  The old saying that the action isn't as bad as the cover-up seems to apply to this situation.  Don't make it worse.  West made it worse, has continued to make it worse, and there is no reason to believe won't continue to make it worse in the future.  That is why you can justify cutting ties with West and giving Cannon a second chance.

That's probably true.  Kanye not only doubled down, he basically dared companies to cut ties.

The Cannon thing still makes me sick, though.  I'm not opposed to forgiveness, but I'd like to see a bit of actual pennance over a period of time.  I don't think you make comments like that unless you've got some legitimate hatred in your heart.

[Moranis]

Roy, I think a lot of the response to Cannon and West is how they reacted and responded after making the comments.  Cannon at least publicly acknowledged he was wrong, said he would educate himself, and at least appeared to show genuine remorse.  I have no idea if is remorseful, did educate himself, etc., but he at least made the public attempt to rectify the error of his ways (and he has stayed out of the limelight in that regard since, so maybe he did get the proper education).  West, not only didn't do that, he doubled down and made it worse.  Plus, West hasn't exactly been a stable pillar of society over the last few years to begin with.  The old saying that the action isn't as bad as the cover-up seems to apply to this situation.  Don't make it worse.  West made it worse, has continued to make it worse, and there is no reason to believe won't continue to make it worse in the future.  That is why you can justify cutting ties with West and giving Cannon a second chance.

That's probably true.  Kanye not only doubled down, he basically dared companies to cut ties.

The Cannon thing still makes me sick, though.  I'm not opposed to forgiveness, but I'd like to see a bit of actual pennance over a period of time.  I don't think you make comments like that unless you've got some legitimate hatred in your heart.

don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be in the Nick Cannon business, but I just think there is a far different response from Cannon than there was from West, which probably explains why the response from companies was different.

[chicagoceltic]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Almost all of the black celebrities advocating anti-semitism are referencing Farrakhan, knowingly or not. 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/nation-of-islam-farrakhan-in-his-own-words

It's crazy to me that you've only seen Farrakhan referenced by conservatives.  That's not a failing of you, it's of our media and our culture, not condemning one of the most influential bigots in America.

I hope you're right, that this is a sign of anti-semitism finally becoming an issue that mainstream culture takes seriously.  For many, many years, it's been the most "acceptable" form of bigotry (minus perhaps the anti-white and anti-Christian bigotry cited above.)

Louis Farrakhan is a despicable human being and should be denounced, there is no doubt about that.

Regarding the comment about Farrakhan only being referenced by conservatives, my guess is that is because:

1) It does not seem, at least to me, that we have heard much from him recently. The link you shared above was originally from 2013 and the most recent update is a quote from 2018.

2) It does not seem, again, at least to me, that many people are referencing or openly supporting Farrakhan and on the occassion that someone does others denounce him. Recently Marion Barry's wife praised Farrakhan and afterwards the White House denounced any praise of him with an aide saying ""As President Biden has always done and as Karine reiterated this morning, ‘we need to call out antisemitism everywhere it rears its ugly head. The President has unequivocally condemned Louis Farrakhan and the hate he represents for decades and co-sponsored bipartisan legislation doing so. He also denounces any praise of Louis Farrakhan or his repugnant, antisemitic values, including in this case"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/white-house-denounces-dc-officials-praise-of-anti-semite-louis-farrakhan/ar-AA13mkIR


Again, Farrakhan is despicable and I am fine with him being banned from Twitter for things he has said, I just do not think people talk much about him because he is seen and heard of less and is not as influential than he has been in the past.

[Roy H.]

Kanye has always been batty. He wasn't being canceled before his antisemitic comments but was MAGA before. Don't believe JB is MAGA but still chose to do business w him, ditto for Adidas. I'd argue the opposite is true, people are sticking up for his freedom of speech bc he is MAGA.

So within the past year and a half America has finally turned the corner where anti-semitism is taken seriously?

Will Louis Farrakhan finally be banned from Twitter, I wonder?

Yes, people aren’t getting away with hate speech as much as before. Should have been this way for a long time.

I know nothing about Louis Farrakhan. I’ve only seen conservatives bring up his name. I haven’t seen him on tv or Twitter. If he is publicizing death to Jews, he should be kicked to the curb.

Almost all of the black celebrities advocating anti-semitism are referencing Farrakhan, knowingly or not. 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/nation-of-islam-farrakhan-in-his-own-words

It's crazy to me that you've only seen Farrakhan referenced by conservatives.  That's not a failing of you, it's of our media and our culture, not condemning one of the most influential bigots in America.

I hope you're right, that this is a sign of anti-semitism finally becoming an issue that mainstream culture takes seriously.  For many, many years, it's been the most "acceptable" form of bigotry (minus perhaps the anti-white and anti-Christian bigotry cited above.)

Louis Farrakhan is a despicable human being and should be denounced, there is no doubt about that.

Regarding the comment about Farrakhan only being referenced by conservatives, my guess is that is because:

1) It does not seem, at least to me, that we have heard much from him recently. The link you shared above was originally from 2013 and the most recent update is a quote from 2018.

2) It does not seem, again, at least to me, that many people are referencing or openly supporting Farrakhan and on the occassion that someone does others denounce him. Recently Marion Barry's wife praised Farrakhan and afterwards the White House denounced any praise of him with an aide saying ""As President Biden has always done and as Karine reiterated this morning, ‘we need to call out antisemitism everywhere it rears its ugly head. The President has unequivocally condemned Louis Farrakhan and the hate he represents for decades and co-sponsored bipartisan legislation doing so. He also denounces any praise of Louis Farrakhan or his repugnant, antisemitic values, including in this case"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/white-house-denounces-dc-officials-praise-of-anti-semite-louis-farrakhan/ar-AA13mkIR


Again, Farrakhan is despicable and I am fine with him being banned from Twitter for things he has said, I just do not think people talk much about him because he is seen and heard of less and is not as influential than he has been in the past.

Doesn't much of the anti-semitism we see from celebrities stem from Farrakhan's teachings?  Black separatism, black supremacy, blacks are the real children of Israel, etc.?

Here are some brief articles making the same connection:

https://andscape.com/features/desean-jacksons-anti-semitic-posts-continue-long-history-of-tension-over-farrakhan/

https://apnews.com/article/us-news-ap-top-news-nick-cannon-entertainment-lifestyle-ecfb4235f1bda967e617cf687853a5ba

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/black-public-personalities-are-engaged-in-antisemitic-rhetoric-635715

[Roy H.]

This is sad for the kids:

The Donda Academy is shutting down for the school year after the recent antisemitic statements made by the academy's founder, the artist formerly known as Kanye West.

According to an email from academy principal Jason Angell, a copy of which was obtained by ESPN, the decision to close was made by the Grammy Award-winning artist, who has legally changed his name to Ye.

"Our leadership team will be working diligently to assist all families during this transition, ensuring that every scholar has what they need to succeed in their next community in a prompt and gracious manner," Angell wrote. "We intend to begin afresh in September of 2023."

However, another email obtained by TMZ and signed "Parents of Donda" called for students to return to the academy Thursday, leaving the status of the school in some doubt.

Amid the closing announcement, the Donda Academy's boys' basketball program has seen invitations to three prominent high school basketball showcases rescinded.

Meanwhile, TMZ says not so fast:  https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/27/kanye-west-donda-academy-opens-shut-down/

I don't want to see these kids jerked around. 

[GreenlyGreeny]

I think these things should all be universally true:

1.  Freely flowing thoughts and ideas are a good thing.  Free speech should be embraced and promoted, not just from infringement by the government, but in all spheres.  However, it's not without limits.

2.  Hate speech and bigotry are a bad thing, that should be criticized and "cancelled".  However, we can have grace and forgiveness, as well, when appropriate. 

3.  Not all speech that somebody deems "offensive" should be shut down.  People need to weigh context, reasonability, and intent. 

This. When I call for a return to common sense sanity, this is precisely what I am calling for.

People are increasingly sick of the dark triad types who engage in item three to an extreme extent so they can boost their “woke credentials.” These sick individuals love seeing people they merely disagree with being cancelled/shunned, even though they know some of these people are good people who do not deserve to be lumped in with item two (they see the world differently, but are not hateful bigots by any means). This type of cancel culture behavior, jumping on people for retweeting an off-color joke about women for example, often resembles the brimstone biblical types of the 20th century with God/Jesus substituted with “social justice” and “equity.” The backlash against these types—among right-wingers, middle/center folk, and classical liberals who worship item one above all else—the backlash is obviously bubbling to the surface. Eventually we may need to treat the people who are seemingly always offended by something, always trying to push this cancellation or that ban, the same as the people who engage in item two above because ultimately what most of those people are really selling/pushing is hate/bigotry of a more implicit/insidious nature (or people are being pushed in that direction by those who want to see increasing levels of hate/bigotry/disunion). Many are not so different from the people who fall under item two, frankly.

[GreenlyGreeny]

This is sad for the kids:

The Donda Academy is shutting down for the school year after the recent antisemitic statements made by the academy's founder, the artist formerly known as Kanye West.

According to an email from academy principal Jason Angell, a copy of which was obtained by ESPN, the decision to close was made by the Grammy Award-winning artist, who has legally changed his name to Ye.

"Our leadership team will be working diligently to assist all families during this transition, ensuring that every scholar has what they need to succeed in their next community in a prompt and gracious manner," Angell wrote. "We intend to begin afresh in September of 2023."

However, another email obtained by TMZ and signed "Parents of Donda" called for students to return to the academy Thursday, leaving the status of the school in some doubt.

Amid the closing announcement, the Donda Academy's boys' basketball program has seen invitations to three prominent high school basketball showcases rescinded.

Meanwhile, TMZ says not so fast:  https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/27/kanye-west-donda-academy-opens-shut-down/

I don't want to see these kids jerked around.

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious the academy ought to stay open for the sake of the kids. JB even referenced how he will continue to maintain relationships/connections with these disadvantaged kiddos.  I highly doubt the school is publicizing antisemitism or we would have heard by now.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I think these things should all be universally true:

1.  Freely flowing thoughts and ideas are a good thing.  Free speech should be embraced and promoted, not just from infringement by the government, but in all spheres.  However, it's not without limits.

2.  Hate speech and bigotry are a bad thing, that should be criticized and "cancelled".  However, we can have grace and forgiveness, as well, when appropriate. 

3.  Not all speech that somebody deems "offensive" should be shut down.  People need to weigh context, reasonability, and intent. 

This. When I call for a return to common sense sanity, this is precisely what I am calling for.

People are increasingly sick of the dark triad types who engage in item three to an extreme extent so they can boost their “woke credentials.” These sick individuals love seeing people they merely disagree with being cancelled/shunned, even though they know some of these people are good people who do not deserve to be lumped in with item two (they see the world differently, but are not hateful bigots by any means). This type of cancel culture behavior, jumping on people for retweeting an off-color joke about women for example, often resembles the brimstone biblical types of the 20th century with God/Jesus substituted with “social justice” and “equity.” The backlash against these types—among right-wingers, middle/center folk, and classical liberals who worship item one above all else—the backlash is obviously bubbling to the surface. Eventually we may need to treat the people who are seemingly always offended by something, always trying to push this cancellation or that ban, the same as the people who engage in item two above because ultimately what most of those people are really selling/pushing is hate/bigotry of a more implicit/insidious nature (or people are being pushed in that direction by those who want to see increasing levels of hate/bigotry/disunion). Many are not so different from the people who fall under item two, frankly.

I’ve read your last couple of posts as “Kanye was wrong, but cancel culture is to blame”.

This is an absolutely wild take.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I think these things should all be universally true:

1.  Freely flowing thoughts and ideas are a good thing.  Free speech should be embraced and promoted, not just from infringement by the government, but in all spheres.  However, it's not without limits.

2.  Hate speech and bigotry are a bad thing, that should be criticized and "cancelled".  However, we can have grace and forgiveness, as well, when appropriate. 

3.  Not all speech that somebody deems "offensive" should be shut down.  People need to weigh context, reasonability, and intent. 

Regarding #3: How is this relevant to Kanye’s tweet? I keep reading/hearing that cancel culture is targeting things that aren’t “a big deal”, but without examples. What type of actions are incorrectly being called out?

I think each perceived transgression needs to be addressed on an individual basis. Lumping any type of criticism into cancel culture is lazy.

“Death con 3 to Jewish people” seems cut and dry.

[Celtics4ever]

He was way out of line saying that stuff.   We also have people in both political parties who utter Antisemitic comments and people need to stand up firmly to any kind of racial discrimination.  It should be unacceptable.

I think he has mental illness issues.  Doesn't excuse him but provides reasoning about his judgement.