Report: Celtics still looking to utilize trade exception?

[celticsclay]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

I’ll also add George hill for example is not considered even a viable backup by the bucks by all accounts and is widely expected to be moved or bought out at some point this season.

[Moranis]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

[gouki88]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

Which is an absurd interpretation of "starting calibre". Markieff Morris started one game, same as Guerschon Yabuesele in his final season. Many of the players, most of whom were healthy, started under 20 games.

This is a ridiculously dishonest line of argument. If George Hill or Facundo Campazzo are starting calibre then so is Luke Kornet.

[BitterJim]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

Which is an absurd interpretation of "starting calibre". Markieff Morris started one game, same as Guerschon Yabuesele in his final season. Many of the players, most of whom were healthy, started under 20 games.

This is a ridiculously dishonest line of argument. If George Hill or Facundo Campazzo are starting calibre then so is Luke Kornet.

It's too bad we traded starting caliber players like Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Langford, Enes, and (a year earlier) Jeff Teague. Semi Ojeleye and Tremont Waters leaving in FA was a big loss, too.

I'm glad we got rid of that bench scrub Josh Richardson, though, he wasn't starting caliber.

[Moranis]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

Which is an absurd interpretation of "starting calibre". Markieff Morris started one game, same as Guerschon Yabuesele in his final season. Many of the players, most of whom were healthy, started under 20 games.

This is a ridiculously dishonest line of argument. If George Hill or Facundo Campazzo are starting calibre then so is Luke Kornet.

Kornet has played less than 500 minutes the last 2 seasons and last year played 103 minutes.  Early on in his career he looked like he might be credible, but he has basically been bounced around and barely played.  Campazzo played 1184 minutes on a 48 win team last year and the previous year as a rookie he played 1425 minutes and started 19 games for an even better Nuggets team.  Hill played 1253 minutes and started 17 games for the defending champs who won 51 games last year.   Kornet, while on that same Bucks team for part of the season, played 3 minutes in 1 game. 

Kornet is no where near as good as Campazzo or Hill.  It is why he can't stick on a team and why no one plays him any meaningful minutes.

[gouki88]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

Which is an absurd interpretation of "starting calibre". Markieff Morris started one game, same as Guerschon Yabuesele in his final season. Many of the players, most of whom were healthy, started under 20 games.

This is a ridiculously dishonest line of argument. If George Hill or Facundo Campazzo are starting calibre then so is Luke Kornet.

Kornet has played less than 500 minutes the last 2 seasons and last year played 103 minutes.  Early on in his career he looked like he might be credible, but he has basically been bounced around and barely played.  Campazzo played 1184 minutes on a 48 win team last year and the previous year as a rookie he played 1425 minutes and started 19 games for an even better Nuggets team.  Hill played 1253 minutes and started 17 games for the defending champs who won 51 games last year.   Kornet, while on that same Bucks team for part of the season, played 3 minutes in 1 game. 

Kornet is no where near as good as Campazzo or Hill.  It is why he can't stick on a team and why no one plays him any meaningful minutes.

Hahahahaha

[Roy H.]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

[td450]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

If we all assume we are talking about the 17.1M TPE, then that implies a plus starter or very talented rotation player. Most of this discussion does not apply. In the case of this team, such a move would be a major decision, and would need to be a very good fit. I would hope for a high quality long term big, not a fringe rotation player.

[slamtheking]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

If we all assume we are talking about the 17.1M TPE, then that implies a plus starter or very talented rotation player. Most of this discussion does not apply. In the case of this team, such a move would be a major decision, and would need to be a very good fit. I would hope for a high quality long term big, not a fringe rotation player.

as has been mentioned elsewhere, the chances the full amount is used to acquire a player worth that much (and the resulting tax penalties that would go along with that) is very unlikely.  I do think there will be a move to bring in a player making much less than that to use some of that money while preserving the other TPEs that do not expire for a while.  Would be truly disappointed/frustrated/aggravated if it goes completely unused.  it's a golden opportunity to acquire a good player and to worry about the tax implications later in the season when they can move a player that's not producing at the level they need (cough, cough, White, cough)

[Roy H.]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

If we all assume we are talking about the 17.1M TPE, then that implies a plus starter or very talented rotation player. Most of this discussion does not apply. In the case of this team, such a move would be a major decision, and would need to be a very good fit. I would hope for a high quality long term big, not a fringe rotation player.

I think the proposal was for Jae Crowder and Torrey Craig, so probably not the type of deal you'd be looking for.

I don't like that proposal, either, but I do find the underlying argument interesting:  What are the reasonable expectations of a championship contender?  Are the Celtics acting consistently with their peers?

I think that Moranis is wrong that we're not acting like "big boys".  Even the biggest of the big spenders traditionally don't use every resource available to them.  A team has a right to set a budget, and not spend tens of millions of dollars on incremental upgrades.

Now, there's an off-shoot argument to that:  regardless of other teams, what specifically should the Celtics do?  Here, we have various options:

1.  Use the TPE just to preserve the asset for trading purposes at the deadline.  In this scenario, the Celtics would spend as much of the TPE as possible on expiring contracts, so that they could be re-traded down the road.

2.  Use the TPE if it makes the team incrementally better.  If a move changes the team's chances even 2%, it's worth it, because the team has to maximize its chances.  Going 98% in isn't the same as going 100% in.

3.  Use the TPE only if it makes the team significantly better.  This is a recognition that spending an extra $40+ million on a very small or insignificant improve can impact future monetary decisions.

4.  Use the TPE only if it makes the team significantly better, both this season and in the future.  This is the most restrictive view among those who think that Brad has the right to spend the TPE.

To that, you have to weigh outgoing compensation, and whether that compensation would be better spent in other deals.  And of course, we don't know what Brad's marching orders.  He and Wyc have implied that he can spend as much as he wants.  I'm skeptical about that, and suspect that spending is contingent on adding a substantial improvement at least this season.

But, if there truly is no spending cap, then I'd be more inclined to go with option #1 or #2.  I do tend to think that contending teams should spend up to their maximum budget, and if Wyc doesn't care about another $40 million, neither do I.  (Hint:  Josh Richardson + Jeff Green.  Lol.)

[Roy H.]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

If we all assume we are talking about the 17.1M TPE, then that implies a plus starter or very talented rotation player. Most of this discussion does not apply. In the case of this team, such a move would be a major decision, and would need to be a very good fit. I would hope for a high quality long term big, not a fringe rotation player.

as has been mentioned elsewhere, the chances the full amount is used to acquire a player worth that much (and the resulting tax penalties that would go along with that) is very unlikely.  I do think there will be a move to bring in a player making much less than that to use some of that money while preserving the other TPEs that do not expire for a while.  Would be truly disappointed/frustrated/aggravated if it goes completely unused.  it's a golden opportunity to acquire a good player and to worry about the tax implications later in the season when they can move a player that's not producing at the level they need (cough, cough, White, cough)

You may have answered this previously, but what level of player are you thinking about?  And how much of the TPE are you thinking?

If the choices are Whiteside / Cousins / Howard / Zeller at less than $2 million, or Noel at $9+ million, what would you do?  How much better do you think Noel makes us than Whiteside?

And are there wings you'd spend a portion of the TPE on? 

[td450]

Looking at NBA ranked salaries, between 17.1 and 10M, there are 3 bigs that that probably fit and two who bring something different but are still are plus defenders:

Wendell Carter
Kelly Olynyk
Richaun Holmes

Mo Bamba
Mitchell Robinson

[Celtics2021]

Looking at NBA ranked salaries, between 17.1 and 10M, there are 3 bigs that that probably fit and two who bring something different but are still are plus defenders:

Wendell Carter
Kelly Olynyk
Richaun Holmes

Mo Bamba
Mitchell Robinson

The bottom two signed new contracts this summer and can’t be traded before the TPE expired, even if their teams wanted to.

[slamtheking]

What originally started this entire conversation was that the Celtics would not be competing like the "big boys" if they don't utilize the TPE.

Does anybody (Moranis) still think that's the case, when comparing the team to other "big boys"?

Even among the bigger spenders, have they used every resource available to improve the team?  The Clippers have a TPE expiring on 7/18.  If they don't use it, are they not "big boys", either?  Did the Warriors lose "big boy" status when they let their free agents walk, and didn't spend the entire MLE?

If we all assume we are talking about the 17.1M TPE, then that implies a plus starter or very talented rotation player. Most of this discussion does not apply. In the case of this team, such a move would be a major decision, and would need to be a very good fit. I would hope for a high quality long term big, not a fringe rotation player.

as has been mentioned elsewhere, the chances the full amount is used to acquire a player worth that much (and the resulting tax penalties that would go along with that) is very unlikely.  I do think there will be a move to bring in a player making much less than that to use some of that money while preserving the other TPEs that do not expire for a while.  Would be truly disappointed/frustrated/aggravated if it goes completely unused.  it's a golden opportunity to acquire a good player and to worry about the tax implications later in the season when they can move a player that's not producing at the level they need (cough, cough, White, cough)

You may have answered this previously, but what level of player are you thinking about?  And how much of the TPE are you thinking?

If the choices are Whiteside / Cousins / Howard / Zeller at less than $2 million, or Noel at $9+ million, what would you do?  How much better do you think Noel makes us than Whiteside?

And are there wings you'd spend a portion of the TPE on?

personally, since it's not my money and Wyc/Brad say there's no spending limit, I'd go all in on a player (or combo of players) that's as close to that TPE limit as possible and worry about the tax implications later in the season once management has time to see how the team is performing.  I'd like to focus another big man that's at least a capable defender/rebounder and a back up 3&D wing.  I would think we could get both with the money available. 

fallback is to just use a portion so it's not completely wasted.  for bigs, I'd be fine with Zeller or Noel.  I think the others come with too many headaches or questions about attitude/performance.  I'd be on board with getting Richardson more so than Green even though Green fits the wing we need (when he's having an 'on' game which based on his prior time in Boston, is no where near frequent enough).

If Brad came away with even just Noel or Zeller with Richardson/Green, I'd be satisfied that he's focussed on building this team for contending.  he's made good moves so far but I think he needs to make another move or two to really put the team in the best position to win it all.

[celticsclay]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.

or you know they actually started a whole bunch games last year, which is how I took the conversation as you can see from my follow-ups.

Which is an absurd interpretation of "starting calibre". Markieff Morris started one game, same as Guerschon Yabuesele in his final season. Many of the players, most of whom were healthy, started under 20 games.

This is a ridiculously dishonest line of argument. If George Hill or Facundo Campazzo are starting calibre then so is Luke Kornet.

Kornet has played less than 500 minutes the last 2 seasons and last year played 103 minutes.  Early on in his career he looked like he might be credible, but he has basically been bounced around and barely played.  Campazzo played 1184 minutes on a 48 win team last year and the previous year as a rookie he played 1425 minutes and started 19 games for an even better Nuggets team.  Hill played 1253 minutes and started 17 games for the defending champs who won 51 games last year.   Kornet, while on that same Bucks team for part of the season, played 3 minutes in 1 game. 

Kornet is no where near as good as Campazzo or Hill.  It is why he can't stick on a team and why no one plays him any meaningful minutes.

You realize kornet is on a contract for next season and it is fairly likely campazzo will not be? I don’t know how you write this stuff with a straight face sometime. You are talking about a 5’10 guy that shot 34% from the field and hasn’t been offered a contract by anyone. Hill has been cooked for a few years now and very well also
Not finish next season in NBA. I like these kinds of discussions though cause you are being so silly all you can really do is laugh and see what you say next.