Report: Celtics still looking to utilize trade exception?

[sgrogan]

To the point of needing to upgrade a position vs adding a player -

Udoka plays an 8-man rotation. A simple breakdown of the current roster by minutes looks like this (note: obviously the minutes will ultimately be different so the minutes flex up or down ~4 min just keeping it simple for this convo):

1/2 = 96 min = Smart/Brogdan/White all at 32
3/4 = 96 min = Tatum/Brown/Grant all at 32
5 = 48 min = TimeLord 32/Horford 16

So if we are healthy and add another player, who's giving up minutes from the top 8?

The next 3 players on the roster are:

Pritchard (back up 1/2)
Gallinari (back up 3/4)
Vet Center yet to be signed (back up 5)

These 3 roster slots would not play on nights we are at full strength and Ime is trying to win. So spending on these roster slots do not help win in the playoffs (barring injury). These slots are to help manage the long season/seeding.

The last spot on the 12 man roster is likely Hauser at this point and he is prob garbage time only.

Spot 13 is Kornet who will likely be active on the nights Horford sits and the Vet Center moves up to back up.

My point is, outside of a backup big, any addition would likely require White or Grant to be moved. I don't think that is likely. So any money being spent is almost certainly on a backup big with a contract that can be moved (like Theis' addition at deadline).

Couple things. Udoka's rotation was 8 players last year. That doesn't mean it will be this year. Second, there is the very strong possibility that the Celtics make a trade not sending out players, just a TPE and a draft pick

I don't disagree that as the roster stands now and assuming everyone is in general, healthy and available (a big IF), our roster/rotation is fine, quite good actually.  But based on last season, and every season other than 2020/21, we have mostly played based on a core rotation of:

1  Combo/PG  (Smart)
2  G/F Wings  (Brown/Tatum)
2  PF/C Bigs   (Horford/RWill)

I don't see any reason that we would go away from that.  That does not mean we will always play exactly this way, we will play plenty with 2 combo, 2 bigs and 1 wing; or 2 combo, 2 wing, and 1 big.   Assuming the same starters (at least at the beginning of the season) that means our regular rotation back ups for each of those categories are (I am excluding the deep bench):

Combo/PG   White/Pritchard
G/F Wing     Brogdon
PF/C Bigs    Gallinari/Grant

That is still 10 deep if you include Pritchard.  Our "shallowest" position is the G/F Wing.  Brogdon becomes the principal back up but I am not even sure if his natural position is wing.  I think he can be fine at wing but to me, another bench wing is a greater need than an insurance big (which I think is what BruceBanner is saying).  We are 4 deep at the big position, 3+ deep at the combo slot (Brogdon can play there but probably won't).  We are only 3 deep at wing, 2.75 really if you consider that Brogdon is not a natural wing but can play as a wing.  As of now, Hauser is our 4th wing. 

Not the end of the world, but picture what happens if Brown's wrist is sore and he has to sit out.  Suddenly the wing position looks pretty thin.  Brogdon starts and Hauser is the first wing off the bench.  More likely, Pritchard and White see more minutes but neither of them are really wings.  Compare that to our big rotation, say with Horford resting a back to back.  We can start Gallinari and bring Grant off the bench.  Maybe Kornet gets 10 min if someone is in foul trouble.

One thing, VG:  in his press conference, Brad mentioned adding somebody at the "5 position".  In other words, he is differentiating between "bigs" and a center.  I don't think we can necessarily co-mingle PFs with Cs when it comes to roster needs.

Exactly, they don't want to play Gallanari or GWill at the 5. If Al and RWIII are heathy they adjust.

[Vermont Green]

One thing, VG:  in his press conference, Brad mentioned adding somebody at the "5 position".  In other words, he is differentiating between "bigs" and a center.  I don't think we can necessarily co-mingle PFs with Cs when it comes to roster needs.

That is OK.  Some bigs are primarily PF, some primarily C, some can play either.  In our current rotation of 4 playable bigs, we have one true C (RWill), 2 that are more PF than C (Gallinari and Grant) and 1 that to me is PF/C hybrid (Horford).  So that is kind of 1.5 C and 2.5 PF.  This rotation would be best served by adding another playable C to make it as unlikely as possible that Kornet has to actually play.

Teams can play with 2 PFs more likely than playing with 2 Cs.  There are distinctions between the two positions.  These day less so than in the past.  Did Stevens even come right out and say that he looks at them as bigs?

[colincb]

I can't imagine that Stevens would acquire an asset with the TPE just to send him home.

[footey]

My gut tells me somehow we get a backup center and Payton Pritchard ends up on the Jazz by July 18.

[gouki88]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

[Moranis]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Aside from the rookies, pretty much every single player listed there started multiple games last year and not just junk type games.  Even someone like Jordan Nwora started 13 games for the Bucks last year (he is their 11th or 12th man).  Boston has just 10 guys on the roster that started games last year and Pritchard started a whopping 2.  Kornet, Hauser, Thomas, and Ryan played like 300 minutes all year combined.  The roster is missing guys that can come in and play meaningful minutes here and there when there are injuries and what not.  There is probably enough small depth, but the team certainly lacks big depth and the two starting bigs are the most likely starters to miss time.  It is a real problem. 

[Celtics2021]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Stevens suggested the Celtics might still make one more addition at center, while complimenting Luke Kornet. If the roster stood as currently constructed, Kornet would be the team’s back-up.

“We’ll probably add one more person that can play in that area,” Stevens said. “But we’re really believing in Luke as not only depth — he can obviously fill out the roster — but also be ready to help us and help us win. I think he’s at that stage where he can do that.

“But we’re still looking, and we’ll still add at least one more body at that, whatever we call the five position nowadays.”

“Obviously, we have not only a trade exception now, but trade exceptions that we can use again towards the trade deadline,” Stevens said. “And that’s all about just finding the right deal. If it’s the right trade to be made, we have the green light to do that.”

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=106909.0#msg3071904

Well to answer Moranis' question, looks like we're developing from within.

Makes sense that we didn't develop any 13th or whatever man of significance in the past few years imo. Had to focus our efforts developing roster spots 1-8.

[ozgod]

My gut tells me somehow we get a backup center and Payton Pritchard ends up on the Jazz by July 18.

My feeling is also that if we were to use the TPE, it would be as part of a trade to flip someone already in the rotation for someone who either fits better or fills a bigger need, where the net increase in payroll and tax would be marginal. So yes PP would be the most at risk since he would probably fall out of the active rotation anyway. But he's also cheap right now, his salary profile and skill profile fits the bill of someone as an insurance player. The other person might be White, if they think that Brogdon's injury history is worth punting on. His salary is a big enough chunk to bring back someone meaningful without having to blow the whole TPE. Other than that I don't see who else we would trade out in our active rotation.

I still think the most likely outcome is that they let it expire, which would mean they're happy with the team as it stands, and get a vet min guy as a third big. Could even be considered 4th big, depending on how Gallo can be classified.

[goCeltics]

I think Zach Collins might be a target, some like payton plus some 2nd rounders

[gouki88]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

[gouki88]

I think Zach Collins might be a target, some like payton plus some 2nd rounders

Major overpay. Zach Collins has played 39 games since 2019.

[Moranis]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion. 

[celticsclay]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

I agree. Some of the players on here are quite comical, and I can’t tell if mo is just trying to be funny or you don’t really watch these other teams and players. campazzo for example is just flat out terrible for an nba player. He is likely headed back to Europe after having a small offer declined by nuggets he shot 36% from the field and 30% from three last year. He is also 5’10 and far from a prospect at 31. Fork and Milton for the 76ers are atrocious for a playoff rotation. You realize Kork is one of the worst defenders in the nba and shot 29% from 3 last year on 4 attempts a game (no not a typo). Milton can at least occasionally do something of the bounce but is also a really lousy defender and himself only shot 32% from 3. Why are you listing players that Don’t belong in rotations and in some cases even the nba as examples of depth? It’s so silly I can’t get upset at it, but just confusing if you are joking or what.

[gouki88]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

You cannot be serious with some of the players you just listed

Did you need to ask?

I was immediately regretful after he doubled down and tried to defend Jordan Nwora as a genuine starter. He is worse than Pritchard on both ends of the floor.

I didn't say Nwora was a genuine starter.  I said he started 13 games for the Bucks last year as a 2nd year man.  He also played 19.1 mpg over 62 games.  He wasn't a scrub like Boston's 11th through 15th men are.  Bucks obviously felt comfortable with him getting that kind of time and he is their 11th or 12th man.  Boston just doesn't have players like that on the roster, past Pritchard.  If injuries befell the Bucks and they have to start Nwora, they know they are getting someone that can handle it in short bursts because he has already done it.  Maybe Hauser ends up a similar level player, but he certainly hasn't show anything that would lead to that conclusion.

Now you're just lying, or you didn't read what Roy said when you replied.

He said:

And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

You replied:

The Bucks and Heat go that deep

The implication being that Nwora, Markieff Morris, Dewayne Dedmon, George Hill, Joe Ingles, Jevon Carter, Duncan Robinson and some of the others you listed constitute starting calibre. That is an indefensible statement, unless you mean starting calibre in the sense that they could start for the 2011 Charlotte Bobcats.