Report: Celtics still looking to utilize trade exception?

[Chief]

Detroit had a lot of players and probably would easily trade Noel. He seems like a great backup to Timelord.

[Vermont Green]

Detroit had a lot of players and probably would easily trade Noel. He seems like a great backup to Timelord.

OK, that is a fair example, $9.2M is a lot for player you are not even sure you are going to need, but I agree, he probably could be had.

I personally don't see the need to do this now.  Nerlens becomes our 5th big.  He put up 3 pts and 5.6 rebs in 22 min last season.  I don't think he is better than Grant.  I think there are comparable 5th bigs that could be acquired at almost anytime and likely for the min.  If we get to the trade deadline and RWill is injured, Horford isn't holding up, and we are desperate, maybe.  But not now.

Or if they buy him out and we can sign him for a min contract, that would be fine.

[nickagneta]

Detroit had a lot of players and probably would easily trade Noel. He seems like a great backup to Timelord.

OK, that is a fair example, $9.2M is a lot for player you are not even sure you are going to need, but I agree, he probably could be had.

I personally don't see the need to do this now.  Nerlens becomes our 5th big.  He put up 3 pts and 5.6 rebs in 22 min last season.  I don't think he is better than Grant.  I think there are comparable 5th bigs that could be acquired at almost anytime and likely for the min.  If we get to the trade deadline and RWill is injured, Horford isn't holding up, and we are desperate, maybe.  But not now.

Or if they buy him out and we can sign him for a min contract, that would be fine.

Nerlens had 1.2 steals and 1.2 blocks in those 22 minutes. Per36 that's 1.9 and 2.0 steals/blocks with 9.0 rebounds. By comparison, Timelord Per36 is 1.1 steals, 2.7 blocks and 11.7 rebounds. Nerlens had a DBPM of 3.3 with Williams at 3.1.

If you get Nerlens, it's for his defense and defensive versatility.

But, best to get him once Detroit releases him and not with the Fournier TPE. Though, since it's not my money, I have zero issue with using the TPE to get him.

[Roy H.]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

We significantly differ on the comparable values of the the 8-10 rotation players from many of the teams you listed.

We are now a solid 9 deep, not including Pritchard, who had moments in the playoffs for us, and Hauser, who the front office have said they are hopeful he can be in the rotation this year.

We are right there with the deepest teams in the league already.

That doesn't mean that I don't want the Cs to use the trade exception. I do, but the attitude that we aren't keeping up with the big boys is just incorrect.

Seriously.  A good chunk of the players listed would be outside our top 10, and well outside it.  Jordan Nwora? Beauchamp??  Jevon Carter?  Heck, 35 year-old Joe Ingles coming off the worst year of his career AND a torn ACL that won’t have him ready until January at best?

Dedmon?  Jovic?  Korkmaz?  Kaminsky?? 

And then there are guys like Dieng, who are in other teams, and Campazzo, who’s so awesome that he might be headed back to Europe.

I could go on, but man, that’s a new level we’ve reached in that post.

Yeah...  I don't see any need to use the TPE to match that level of "depth".

There are plenty of guys available for the minimum who can match the production of the Korkmaz's and Kamisky's of the world.  Bigs:  Whiteside, Howard, Cousins, Zeller.  Wings:  Jackson, Lamb, Hood.

[colincb]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

[Roy H.]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

[tonydelk]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

While it may be true there just is no way they will spend 10+m on a player who may spot start and play 15mpg otherwise.  The only reason to do this is if it's a player that can be a starter in the league, is signed for multiple years to take over Al's spot in the rotation next year.  I don't think anyone is available right now that would make sense.  I can see the smaller one's being used in season but the big TPE I just don't see it unless a big trade goes down and we can get a good player from a team that needs to clear salary.

[Moranis]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

After having read your definition of depth last year in the who is deeper thread, East or West, I hope you will understand if a take this opinion with a huge grain of salt.

Sure.  Boston is 9 deep I'd say, which is much better than the 7 deep they were last year i.e. Smart, Brown, Tatum, Al, Rob, White, Brogdon, Grant, and Gallo.  If you want to count Pritchard, he is comparable to some of the back end of the guys on the other teams, but he also isn't really going to play when Boston is healthy (even in the regular season), Boston's real problem is big men though.  Boston is very shallow in actual big men with just 2 competent players on the roster.  That is where Boston needs to add depth.  Some of it can certainly come from a veteran minimum guy like Howard, Whiteside, Cousins, etc., but there is no reason not to use the big TPE and add a quality player (or two) to the roster because Boston has to add players to the roster.  True contending teams don't waste assets like that.  If Boston doesn't use it, I think they are signaling they don't actually expect to compete this year. 

[colincb]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

I can think of a number of reasons.

[Roy H.]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

I can think of a number of reasons.

What reasons?

Even if the concern is about playing time, fit, etc., Brad should at least trade the TPE for an expiring contract to maintain flexibility.  If he doesn't like the player, he can send him home, Keith Bogans style.  That's a better option than allowing a $17 million salary spot to expire for nothing.

If ownership has approved that level of spending, then you have to keep your options open.

[Roy H.]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

While it may be true there just is no way they will spend 10+m on a player who may spot start and play 15mpg otherwise.  The only reason to do this is if it's a player that can be a starter in the league, is signed for multiple years to take over Al's spot in the rotation next year.  I don't think anyone is available right now that would make sense.  I can see the smaller one's being used in season but the big TPE I just don't see it unless a big trade goes down and we can get a good player from a team that needs to clear salary.

Doesn't this reasoning only make sense if there's a spending cap / budget, though?

Because, if Brad's marching orders are "do whatever it takes, no matter the cost", then even an incremental improvement and preservation of the salary slot is in the team's best interests, right?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like a big boy.

Outside of the Warriors, Clippers (zero championships) and Nets (zero championships), what big boys are spending more than us?  And what team goes 10 - 12 deep with starting caliber players?

The Bucks and Heat go that deep. 

Bucks - Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Allen, Lopez, Connaughton, Portis, Ibaka, Matthews, Ingles, Hill, Carter, Nwora - Beauchamp

Heat - Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo, Lowry, Robinson, Morris, Martin, Strus, Vincent, Dedmon - Jovic

Heck even the Sixers have a bunch real depth this year

Sixers - Embiid, Harris, Harden, Thybulle, Maxey, Melton, Niang, Tucker, Milton, Korkmaz, Joe

Now obviously some of those guys are certainly equivalent to the end of Boston's bench and Boston has some better players in the 4-8 range than many of those teams, but they all have more overall depth than the C's. 

Heck even a team with less talent at the top, like say the Hawks, has a ton of depth.

Hawks - Young, Murray, Bogdanovic, Collins, Capela, Dieng, Okongwu, Hunter, Holiday, Williams, Harkless, Kaminsky

or the Nuggets

Nuggets - Jokic, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Murray, Brown, Rivers, Hyland, Campazzo, Green, Smith


Those teams just don't have the expense on players 4-8 in the roster like Boston.  That is where Boston's salary has gotten out of hand.  7 players over 10 million and 4th most expensive guy at over 22 million is a lot of salary in the middle depths and more than makes up for the cheaper than many teams top 2 salaries that are Tatum and Brown.  Turning someone like White into 2 or 3 cheaper players, would fill out the roster a lot better.

After having read your definition of depth last year in the who is deeper thread, East or West, I hope you will understand if a take this opinion with a huge grain of salt.

Sure.  Boston is 9 deep I'd say, which is much better than the 7 deep they were last year i.e. Smart, Brown, Tatum, Al, Rob, White, Brogdon, Grant, and Gallo.  If you want to count Pritchard, he is comparable to some of the back end of the guys on the other teams, but he also isn't really going to play when Boston is healthy (even in the regular season), Boston's real problem is big men though.  Boston is very shallow in actual big men with just 2 competent players on the roster.  That is where Boston needs to add depth.  Some of it can certainly come from a veteran minimum guy like Howard, Whiteside, Cousins, etc., but there is no reason not to use the big TPE and add a quality player (or two) to the roster because Boston has to add players to the roster.  True contending teams don't waste assets like that.  If Boston doesn't use it, I think they are signaling they don't actually expect to compete this year.

Just go through those other teams you listed and their big men.

Sixers? Embiid and maybe Tucker (which if you include you have to include Grant Williams in ours)
Nuggets? Jokic and DeAndre Jordan (lol)
Clippers? Zubac?
Heat? Bam and Dedmon

Of that list, only the Hawks and Bucks have more quality bigs than the Cs.

We are middle of the pack with the top contenders at worst in our big man rotation, and we are way ahead of them with out depth at guard and forward.

[bdm860]

True contending teams don't waste assets like that.  If Boston doesn't use it, I think they are signaling they don't actually expect to compete this year.

True contending teams waste assets all the time though.

Golden State just let Payton and Porter walk losing 2 rotiational players worth ~15.3m in assets (based on annual value of new deals) for nothing.

Phoenix seems to letting Ayton walk (though they may get something in return, but it also may be pennies on the dollar).

Milwaukee let Brogdon go for peanuts, didn't use the trade exception they got out of it.

In '21, the Heat let a 7.5m TPE expire.

I don't know if you think Dallas is contending, but they just let a 10.9m exception expire (in hopes of re-signing Brunson).

Clippers have an 8.5m trade exception that expires in less than a week, so let's see if they use it.


Losing assets for nothing (or pennies) certainly happens for contending teams too.

[footey]

tick tick tick (one week left)

[sgrogan]

At today's press conference:

John Karalis @John_Karalis about 43 minutes ago

Asked Brad Stevens if there's a limit to the spending to round out the roster considering the current tax bill, and he says no. There are mutliple TPEs to use and he says he has clearance to use them

I hope that's true, but I doubt it is. 

But, if it is true, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the TPE by 7/18.

While it may be true there just is no way they will spend 10+m on a player who may spot start and play 15mpg otherwise.  The only reason to do this is if it's a player that can be a starter in the league, is signed for multiple years to take over Al's spot in the rotation next year.  I don't think anyone is available right now that would make sense.  I can see the smaller one's being used in season but the big TPE I just don't see it unless a big trade goes down and we can get a good player from a team that needs to clear salary.

Doesn't this reasoning only make sense if there's a spending cap / budget, though?

Because, if Brad's marching orders are "do whatever it takes, no matter the cost", then even an incremental improvement and preservation of the salary slot is in the team's best interests, right?

It depends on the cost to preserve that asset. Do you give up PP for Malik Beasley using the TPE ( I chose Beasely because he was the highest expiring that fits in the TPE)?

If you make a desperation move now to spend the existing budget, does it impact future budget?