NBA Off Season 2022

[SparzWizard]

Offseason drama continues as NBA vet Oldin Polynice revealed that Kyrie Irving disrespected Steve Nash at Nash's house during a party early in the season, stating that Nash needs to give all his MVP trophies back to Kobe because he didn't deserve them. It was at that moment the two started having tensions. Then again, Irving's always a headache whichever team he's on. Guess he and KD really deserve each other.

Kyrie saying Kyrie things. But I will say that one of them belonged to Shaq lol otherwise Nash is still one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game.

[celticsclay]

It was a very bad trade, but ultimately, it’s not among the worst because the pieces involved were good players, but not players of a historic nature.

I agree with clay (but please tone down the language):  when talking about worst trades ever, you judge those on what was given up.

Thought experiment:

1. Celtics trade a Jaylen Brown level player for a Larry Bird level player; or

2. Celtics trade a top-55 protected #2 for a Marcus Smart level player.

Which trade is better for the Celtics / worse for the other team?

The thing about that trade was it was a 4-team trade in which all 4 teams arguably lost the trade. 

The 4 teams received the following:

Lakers - Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, and Chris Duhon

Sixers - Bynum and Richardson

Nuggets - Iguodala

Magic - Aaron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts, Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless, Rodions Kurucs, 2013 2nd (Romero Osby), 2014 1st from Denver (Dario Saric), 2017 2nd (Wesley Iwundu), 2017 1st from Philly (De'Aaron Fox)

Obviously the Magic did the best, but they also gave up the best player in the trade and have had 1 winning season in the decade since.  That trade precipitated the Lakers and Sixers going into multi-season rebuilds and the Nuggets had Iggy for just 1 season before he left in free agency the next summer (it was a sign and trade but the Nuggets only got Foye and a worse 2nd rounder).  It was a 4-team trade that at best didn't work out or at worst was an epic disaster. 

To your hypothetical, there is something to the idea that if you give up a player like Bird and "only" get a player like Brown back in return as being worse than giving up a player like Smart and only getting a future 2nd round pick in return, as the guys like Bird can alter a franchise more than a guy like Smart, however you still have a player like Brown in the Bird scenario.  That isn't going to crush your franchise and set you on a path to destruction, like a trade where you give up 3 quality players and a future 1st for absolutely nothing.  That is the type of trade that leads a franchise to conclude something like the process is the only viable path forward. 

I mean here is an article grading that trade at the time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/grade-the-trade-magic-trade-dwight-howard-to-la-lakers-in-four-way-deal/

Philadelphia 76ers
Grade: A-

Well, so much for that "Spencer Hawes and Kwame Brown will start" idea.

The Sixers have talked so long about trading Iguodala and they finally pulled the trigger, landing a franchise center in the process. There's a lot to be concerned about for Philly. He's an expiring contract. He can be problematic on and off-court. He's got a significant injury risk.

But he's also the second-best center in the league. The Sixers have an offensive force to turn to, their biggest problem last season. Evan Turner gave them the ability to move Iguodala without positional loss. Losing Iguodala is a phenomenal talent out the door, but they get one back in Bynum. They needed to try and take a step forward. They did. Iguodala's skills were covered by Turner and Thaddeus Young.

They saw a chance to take a big shot at a superstar center, which Bynum evolved into last year. It was time to pull the trigger.

We'll see if they can hit their target.

They got nothing from that 2nd best center in the league.


And here is a recent look back, where they of course give the Sixers an F

https://www.si.com/nba/magic/news/dwight-howard-trade-orlando-los-angeles-la-lakers-denver-nuggets-philadelphia-76ers-sixers

Philadelphia 76ers
Bynum's career went right off a cliff after being traded to the 76ers. After his best season yet in 2011-12 where he averaged 18.7 points and 11.8 rebounds, Bynum suffered a knee injury that held him out for the entire 2012-13 season and he never played a game for the franchise. After 26 appearances the following year for the Cleveland Cavaliers and Indiana Pacers, he never played a game in the NBA again.

Richardson suffered a knee injury of his own that limited him to 33 games in his first season in Philly. He sat out the entire 2013-14 season and played just 19 games in 2014-15 before retiring from the NBA.

By parting ways with the team's last two first-round picks and surrendering an All-Star to get virtually zero production, the Sixers wish they had this trade back.

Grade: F

Mo, I’ll say this in the most respectful way possible. This is not the worst trade in nba history and it is not even close. It’s probably not even bottom 50. There are many trades involving hall of famers, some involving two, for nothing of value throughout nba history. Iggy and vucevic are not in that category. What you are saying is completely categorically wrong. I personally don’t understand why you would argue this or what you motives are for this fairly outlandish claim, but it is objectively 100% wrong and I would be shocked if you could find a single person that agrees this is the worst trade in nba history. I can agree it is an f for the 76ers but how does this make it In the same league as the kareem, wilt or Russell trades? Dirk for tractor trailer? Scottie pippen for olden polyneice? Kobe Bryant for vlade divac? George hill for Leonard? Old baron davis for kyrie irving? Lamarcus Aldridge for tyrus Thomas?  Lillard for Gerald Wallace? Sabonis and oladipo for ibaka? James harden for Jeremy lamb? Barkley for hornacek?  Elvin hayes for Jack marin? Chris Webber for 33 year old Mitch Richmond? It’s not even in the same league as the pierce kg trade for brown and Tatum. I’ve looked up several worst of all time trades on the nba and this isn’t even mentioned in any of them. Again offer is on the table to add this to your signature.

[Vermont Green]

I am not even sure what you guys are debating at this point.  That 4 team trade being discussed is unique in that it was a bad trade for all 4 teams, including Philly.  It is pretty rare for a trade to be bad for all of the teams involved, especially a 4 team trade.  All the other example were trades where one team did great and one team did bad.

The Philly tank/rebuild was a disaster but due largely to bad drafting.  The what-if hypotheticals show that with a few different picks, the opportunity was there for them to tank and draft their way to a really good team.  But drafting doesn't tend to go that way.

The irony is that in spite of all the bad picks, they could now have a top team with Harden and Embiid.  Embiid, the one draft pick that kind of fell to them through the process could be teamed with an in shape and determined Harden, who is only tangentially related to the process.  This will probably be the best team they have had since the process.  Not at all how they drew it up, but here they are.

[celticsclay]

I am not even sure what you guys are debating at this point.  That 4 team trade being discussed is unique in that it was a bad trade for all 4 teams, including Philly.  It is pretty rare for a trade to be bad for all of the teams involved, especially a 4 team trade.  All the other example were trades where one team did great and one team did bad.

The Philly tank/rebuild was a disaster but due largely to bad drafting.  The what-if hypotheticals show that with a few different picks, the opportunity was there for them to tank and draft their way to a really good team.  But drafting doesn't tend to go that way.

The irony is that in spite of all the bad picks, they could now have a top team with Harden and Embiid.  Embiid, the one draft pick that kind of fell to them through the process could be teamed with an in shape and determined Harden, who is only tangentially related to the process.  This will probably be the best team they have had since the process.  Not at all how they drew it up, but here they are.

Mo posted the 76ers traded of iggy and vucevic was the worst trade in history for them. I rightfully pointed out this was objectively ridiculous and he expanded with a bit of nonsense about how it was bad for all teams. The reality is it was a bad trade for Philly but it doesn’t even make it on to the landscape of all time worst trades and it was a ridiculous thing to claim.

I also disagree this is the best team they had since the process. The butler, simmons, Embid, Harris team was significantly better than this team. Harden is in pretty legitimate decline with soft tissue injuries having more and more each season. Even if he really did dedicate himself to fitness for the first time in his career the leagues movement to eliminate trash foul calls and his game being a bit reliant on burst to the hole (much more than the power of Lebron or the height of Durant) I don’t see how a return to mvp form is possible for him. Embid and a fringe all star is not a real championship threat.

[Moranis]

I am not even sure what you guys are debating at this point.  That 4 team trade being discussed is unique in that it was a bad trade for all 4 teams, including Philly.  It is pretty rare for a trade to be bad for all of the teams involved, especially a 4 team trade.  All the other example were trades where one team did great and one team did bad.

The Philly tank/rebuild was a disaster but due largely to bad drafting.  The what-if hypotheticals show that with a few different picks, the opportunity was there for them to tank and draft their way to a really good team.  But drafting doesn't tend to go that way.

The irony is that in spite of all the bad picks, they could now have a top team with Harden and Embiid.  Embiid, the one draft pick that kind of fell to them through the process could be teamed with an in shape and determined Harden, who is only tangentially related to the process.  This will probably be the best team they have had since the process.  Not at all how they drew it up, but here they are.

I think that is mostly how it was drawn up.  The plan was to get as many high picks as possible and try to get a franchise player to build around with enough other assets to compete.  They in fact did that.  They landed the franchise player in Embiid and had enough other assets that they could not only go for it once i.e. Butler, but twice i.e. Harden.  That was in fact the goal of the multi-season rebuild.  It is the same goal the Thunder, Rockets, etc. have right now.  Tank for draft picks and hope they pan out and then figure out who to keep and who to trade (the Wolves have done that as well recently and look like they are on a real upswing).

You are absolutely correct that the Sixers bungled the 2015 draft with Okafor (when already having Noel and Embiid on the roster - though they reportedly wanted Russell and Embiid had gotten hurt again so he wasn't going to play that year), but the draft is, and always has been, a crapshoot so the Sixers plan was just trying to maximize their bites at the apple.  And had they taken Porzingis, instead of Okafor, they probably don't end up with Simmons, so who knows what happens after that (and maybe the Kings aren't willing to unprotect the swap if the Sixers looked like a better team so perhaps the Sixers never would have owned the pick that became Tatum).

[celticsclay]

I honestly wonder what kinds of stuff we would have seen on this forum if the sixers had ever made it to a conference finals.

[Moranis]

So where does Mitchell end up now with Barrett basically being out of the mix after the Knicks extended him?

Still wouldn't mind him in Boston

Boston - Mitchell, Gay, Wade
Cleveland - Smart
Utah - Sexton, White, 25 1st, 27 1st, 29 1st

Who says no to that?

Boston post-trade

Starters - Brogdon, Mitchell, Brown, Tatum, Rob
Main Rotation - Pritchard, Grant, Gay, Gallinari, Horford
Deeper Bench - Wade, Vonleh, Hauser, Kornet, Ryan
2W - Davison, Kabengele

[Roy H.]

So where does Mitchell end up now with Barrett basically being out of the mix after the Knicks extended him?

Still wouldn't mind him in Boston

Boston - Mitchell, Gay, Wade
Cleveland - Smart
Utah - Sexton, White, 25 1st, 27 1st, 29 1st

Who says no to that?

Boston post-trade

Starters - Brogdon, Mitchell, Brown, Tatum, Rob
Main Rotation - Pritchard, Grant, Gay, Gallinari, Horford
Deeper Bench - Wade, Vonleh, Hauser, Kornet, Ryan
2W - Davison, Kabengele

I don’t think Utah cared that much about Barrett.  I still think Mitchell ends up in NY.

I wouldn’t want to do that trade.  I get why you would, but I don’t love the fit.

[slamtheking]

So where does Mitchell end up now with Barrett basically being out of the mix after the Knicks extended him?

Still wouldn't mind him in Boston

Boston - Mitchell, Gay, Wade
Cleveland - Smart
Utah - Sexton, White, 25 1st, 27 1st, 29 1st

Who says no to that?

Boston post-trade

Starters - Brogdon, Mitchell, Brown, Tatum, Rob
Main Rotation - Pritchard, Grant, Gay, Gallinari, Horford
Deeper Bench - Wade, Vonleh, Hauser, Kornet, Ryan
2W - Davison, Kabengele

don't like the deal.  sure, Mitchell is the best player in the deal but he's a real weak spot on D whereas Smart and White are definitely not.  Cleveland gives up Sexton who they're not fond of apparently and get a real upgrade in Smart -- let them kick in one of the firsts to Utah instead of the C's.  not digging the C's giving up 3 firsts along with Smart and White to get Mitchell.

[MattyIce]

Offseason drama continues as NBA vet Oldin Polynice revealed that Kyrie Irving disrespected Steve Nash at Nash's house during a party early in the season, stating that Nash needs to give all his MVP trophies back to Kobe because he didn't deserve them. It was at that moment the two started having tensions. Then again, Irving's always a headache whichever team he's on. Guess he and KD really deserve each other.

Kyrie saying Kyrie things. But I will say that one of them belonged to Shaq lol otherwise Nash is still one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game.

I think this is a ballsack sports made up situation that Oldin fell for

[Moranis]

Offseason drama continues as NBA vet Oldin Polynice revealed that Kyrie Irving disrespected Steve Nash at Nash's house during a party early in the season, stating that Nash needs to give all his MVP trophies back to Kobe because he didn't deserve them. It was at that moment the two started having tensions. Then again, Irving's always a headache whichever team he's on. Guess he and KD really deserve each other.

Kyrie saying Kyrie things. But I will say that one of them belonged to Shaq lol otherwise Nash is still one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game.

Yeah one was Shaq, the other was Lebron.  Kobe didn't even receive votes for MVP in 04-05.  He was 4th in 05-06 behind Nash, Lebron, and Dirk. 

[celticsclay]

Offseason drama continues as NBA vet Oldin Polynice revealed that Kyrie Irving disrespected Steve Nash at Nash's house during a party early in the season, stating that Nash needs to give all his MVP trophies back to Kobe because he didn't deserve them. It was at that moment the two started having tensions. Then again, Irving's always a headache whichever team he's on. Guess he and KD really deserve each other.

Kyrie saying Kyrie things. But I will say that one of them belonged to Shaq lol otherwise Nash is still one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game.

I think this is a ballsack sports made up situation that Oldin fell for

I saw this and couldn’t really figure out what this meant. This bsack sports company just makes up sports stories and tries to trick people?

[Donoghus]

Offseason drama continues as NBA vet Oldin Polynice revealed that Kyrie Irving disrespected Steve Nash at Nash's house during a party early in the season, stating that Nash needs to give all his MVP trophies back to Kobe because he didn't deserve them. It was at that moment the two started having tensions. Then again, Irving's always a headache whichever team he's on. Guess he and KD really deserve each other.

Kyrie saying Kyrie things. But I will say that one of them belonged to Shaq lol otherwise Nash is still one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game.

I think this is a ballsack sports made up situation that Oldin fell for

I saw this and couldn’t really figure out what this meant. This bsack sports company just makes up sports stories and tries to trick people?

ESPN has been tricked multiple times. 

[celticsclay]

Really starting to appear that Westbrook will at least start season with Lakers.

https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1564689460838768646?s=21&t=ITTz42NwQGRdIBUAi61wYg

He was also recently photographed working out with the Lakers young players and Lebron wrote a tweet in support of him. Should make for a real interesting year in laker land.

[nickagneta]

Really starting to appear that Westbrook will at least start season with Lakers.

https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1564689460838768646?s=21&t=ITTz42NwQGRdIBUAi61wYg

He was also recently photographed working out with the Lakers young players and Lebron wrote a tweet in support of him. Should make for a real interesting year in laker land.

I'm getting the feeling that all the big names that were rumored to be moving this off-season will be on their current team's starting lineups this October. Durant, Kyrie, Westbrook, Mitchell....they will at least start the year on their current team's.