Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap

[RJ87]

Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid baseline 3.

JRich was just flat out better than White.

Wrong on both counts. Romeo is a below average shooter and a merely good defender, and Richardson is inferior to White in every way except three point shooting (and marginally better at turning it over less, I suppose). The defence isn't even close, and neither is the passing.

Agree to disagree. I believe both JRich and Romeo were very good defenders - it's ridiculous to say that it 'isn't even close.' And this isn't even about Romeo (who I believe would be giving us as much as White is right now) or the picks(s); I just don't know how anybody would currently rather have White than Richardson right now. White has been bad. Richardson could be bad, but there is a very good chance he would be better than how bad White has been.

It doesn't mean that things can't change, but I think that the FO greatly overestimated how effective White would be and had no idea that he would completely meltdown when faced with real pressure.

White's defense has become underrated because he misses threes. I recall two times last night that he was switched onto Portis and he forced two missed shots (I'm sure I could watch the game again and find a lot more, but I won't). White doesn't make his threes and that sucks, but his game before suggests that he isn't a shooter. Boston traded for him knowing that. I'm happy to have him as opposed to posters continuing to debate Romeo's potential. Spoiler alert: he's awful and nothing in his history suggests that he's ever going to be healthy enough to make an impact.

[Who]

His three point shot has been holding him back for a few years now. If he can ever figure that out, White will instantly become one of the most valuable glue guys in the NBA. A no-stats All-Star like Shane Battier. A sub All-Star really but comparable to many low level stars.

Without that three point shot, White is good player. An above average player but not special. His defense is very good, he rebounds, he handles the ball well, he passes well. Normally, although not at the moment, he finishes well going to the basket and in the midrange.

[Big333223]

I'm a little frustrated with the "White has been bad" takes. His shooting has been terrible but he's been very good at every other facet of the game.

Shooting is important so it's not to be dismissed but people saying he's "bad" because he's in a slump are ignoring how much more there is to basketball.

[gouki88]

He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.

Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.

What good players did we give up? Because Richardson and Langford certainly do not meet that description

Now you're just reaching. We certainly overpaid for White, which is something we're not used to a celtics FO doing. Sometimes you have to do that to get the guy you want. We'll see if that ends up being the right decision.

Essentially we needed to give up Schroeder and Richardson for White. Both of those guys are proven playoff performers. Are they miles better than White? Probably not, but you can't just say we didn't give anyone good up.

Firstly, we didn't give up Schroder for White - not sure why he was brought up. Secondly, both of those guys are serious underperformers in the playoffs. Look at their playoff statistics. You may want to rethink "proven playoff performers".

A couple of things, the front office's goal was to stay under the luxury tax. We know this. To acquire White and stay below the tax line Richardson and Schroeder needed to go. Ignore the fact that if we had kept Schroeder we'd have 4 point guards on our team. So yeah you're right Schroeder didn't go to the Spurs in the trade, but that trade doesn't happen unless the Houston trade is on the table.

2nd: I did look up both of their playoff stats: In the last 4 years here are their best playoff stat lines:

Schroeder: 24/3/8
Richardson: 16/3/42

As 6th men, I don't consider them underperformers.

That is just a completely disingenuous statistical comparison though. You're comparing Schroder's numbers from when he was the #1 option in Atlanta and saying it indicates he'd have success in a 6th man role here. We have more recent, more relevant data that shows Schroder, in non-primary roles, is an inefficient, shot-happy, non-passing weak defender.

The Richardson series you use is also quite funny. It's his only playoff series where he averaged over 8.4PPG, and he still shot 36% from the field. He was shooting it 14 times a game, a number he would not come close to here. His roles in Dallas or Miami are more in line with the role he'd have here, and he was absolutely terrible in those series'.

Using one's "best" series, when those guys were in completely different roles on different teams, is not very relevant. It's also a sample size of 4-7 games.

[Kernewek]

His three point shot has been holding him back for a few years now. If he can ever figure that out, White will instantly become one of the most valuable glue guys in the NBA. A no-stats All-Star like Shane Battier. A sub All-Star really but comparable to many low level stars.

Without that three point shot, White is good player. An above average player but not special. His defense is very good, he rebounds, he handles the ball well, he passes well. Normally, although not at the moment, he finishes well going to the basket and in the midrange.

I agree with this. He’s also an upgrade over Richardson. For all the posters on here who clamour about wanting the C’s to play “the right way” I’m not sure how we don’t universally love The Forehead.

[todd_days_41]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top ::)

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   ::)

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence :)

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

[gouki88]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

[todd_days_41]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

[jambr380]

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

Very pleased maybe an exaggeration, but going through posts, you are right that they are generally satisfied with the trade. I saw this post on Spurs Reddit and thought it was well expressed:

HONEYBRODY·
3 days ago
Yes, I get what you are saying that being a good teammate, defense, and other positive traits are not always shown in the box score or advanced stats. However, you can’t continue to shoot 28% from the field and 16% from 3. You don’t have to be a world beater, but opposing defenses will constantly double off of you making it harder for Smart, Tatum, and Brown to get free and get open looks. They will just sag off and give you the shot and play the passing lanes.

He isn’t getting the assists either. Like the last game, he had 1 assist and 2 TO’s. I thought that his assists would go up, coming off the bench and playing against the other teams backups. Smart usually goes out in 1st, when he comes in, and Brown and Tatum (even Horford and Smart) can make shots better than almost anyone in SA that he passed to.

If you Google stuff around the trade, you will see a bunch of stuff like “finding their missing piece” and “huge win for Celtics” etc at the time, but it has changed a lot against him, and I can see why. People like to point out that the C’s went 20-6 with him, but it wasn’t because of him. If you looked at the C’s since Jan 1st, you will see that they had it turned around for 6 weeks or so before he got there. From what I read, it took time for Ime to implement his system and actually get Brown/Tatum to buy in. Not sure if it’s true, but it makes sense.

I am just hoping that the fans don’t run him out of town. The fans thought that J Rich was a great scorer who spread the floor and an average to above average defender. So, he would be perfect for what they need now, and they shipped him off for a guy that can’t make a 3 or a FG PLUS a 1st. We have seen how much that your life can change when the fans turn on you. In SA, he was in a more protected environment and isn’t used to so much negative comments and scrutiny. I feel bad for him though, because he had no say in the trade.

I have seen a few posts from C fans who think that the lights are too bright for him, and he has never played on such a big stage. That is why he is melting. Truth be told, I think it’s just who he is now. At 27, he isnt going to get any better than what he is:a great defender, hustle guy and teammate. This is the third year of declining stats, and I m afraid that if his offense stays this bad, his defensive prowess won’t be enough to get many minute or might get you run out of town. Derrick deserves better, but I understand C fans frustration after watching J Rich there and with us, and wishing they still had him over White.

[Donoghus]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

They're also sitting at home awaiting the draft lottery to start while this Celtics team is still playing. 

I'm not sure anyone on this board really gives two [dang]s on how Spurs fans are feeling right now.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It's been challenging for me to like White as a player. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that I was not familiar with him in San Antonio and when Boston acquired him, many people on CS and CB acted like we'd just acquired an all-star-caliber player, but his shooting has been terrible. I understand that he makes plays that don't show up in the box score, and he contributes to winning, but for me there's a huge disconnect between the initial fan reaction and what White actually is on the court. It'll probably be hard for me to overcome that.

[todd_days_41]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

They're also sitting at home awaiting the draft lottery to start while this Celtics team is still playing. 

I'm not sure anyone on this board really gives two [dang]s on how Spurs fans are feeling right now.

What’s that got to do with Brick White? Nothing, unless you think he’s some sort of lucky charm.

[slamtheking]

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

Very pleased maybe an exaggeration, but going through posts, you are right that they are generally satisfied with the trade. I saw this post on Spurs Reddit and thought it was well expressed:

HONEYBRODY·
3 days ago
Yes, I get what you are saying that being a good teammate, defense, and other positive traits are not always shown in the box score or advanced stats. However, you can’t continue to shoot 28% from the field and 16% from 3. You don’t have to be a world beater, but opposing defenses will constantly double off of you making it harder for Smart, Tatum, and Brown to get free and get open looks. They will just sag off and give you the shot and play the passing lanes.

He isn’t getting the assists either. Like the last game, he had 1 assist and 2 TO’s. I thought that his assists would go up, coming off the bench and playing against the other teams backups. Smart usually goes out in 1st, when he comes in, and Brown and Tatum (even Horford and Smart) can make shots better than almost anyone in SA that he passed to.

If you Google stuff around the trade, you will see a bunch of stuff like “finding their missing piece” and “huge win for Celtics” etc at the time, but it has changed a lot against him, and I can see why. People like to point out that the C’s went 20-6 with him, but it wasn’t because of him. If you looked at the C’s since Jan 1st, you will see that they had it turned around for 6 weeks or so before he got there. From what I read, it took time for Ime to implement his system and actually get Brown/Tatum to buy in. Not sure if it’s true, but it makes sense.

I am just hoping that the fans don’t run him out of town. The fans thought that J Rich was a great scorer who spread the floor and an average to above average defender. So, he would be perfect for what they need now, and they shipped him off for a guy that can’t make a 3 or a FG PLUS a 1st. We have seen how much that your life can change when the fans turn on you. In SA, he was in a more protected environment and isn’t used to so much negative comments and scrutiny. I feel bad for him though, because he had no say in the trade.

I have seen a few posts from C fans who think that the lights are too bright for him, and he has never played on such a big stage. That is why he is melting. Truth be told, I think it’s just who he is now. At 27, he isnt going to get any better than what he is:a great defender, hustle guy and teammate. This is the third year of declining stats, and I m afraid that if his offense stays this bad, his defensive prowess won’t be enough to get many minute or might get you run out of town. Derrick deserves better, but I understand C fans frustration after watching J Rich there and with us, and wishing they still had him over White.

I think that post captures a pretty good sense of the situation.  In short, people saying White is a better shooter and just needs to get over his yips -- well, he can't get any worse but the thing is, while he may get past the yips, he's barely a mediocre shooter at his best and what he's producing on the court isn't enough be a long shot.

[gouki88]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

They're also sitting at home awaiting the draft lottery to start while this Celtics team is still playing. 

I'm not sure anyone on this board really gives two [dang]s on how Spurs fans are feeling right now.

What’s that got to do with Brick White? Nothing, unless you think he’s some sort of lucky charm.

It's the cringeworthy attempts like these, without acknowledging the provable ways in which White is superior to Richardson, that make people laugh at your takes.

[KG Living Legend]

 When we win the championship.  Nobody will be complaining about Defense White.