Author Topic: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap  (Read 89540 times)

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Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #255 on: May 04, 2022, 08:07:26 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.
Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top ::)

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   ::)
Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.
Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence :)

The ONLY thing that frustrates me with DW is his 3-point shooting.  His defense, energy/movement, passing, 2-Pt/mid-range shooting, drives/finishing at the hoop, rebounding, are all either OK or I am happy about.  He makes an occasional bonehead play but they all do.

If JRich hadn't been so dang solid from 3 I wouldn't be giving the trade a 2nd thought.  But even with that, I think DW is the better fit and player.  But he did miss 2 wide open key 3-Point looks yesterday that he really has to make.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #256 on: May 04, 2022, 08:07:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #257 on: May 04, 2022, 08:26:20 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall in the playoffs, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 09:09:23 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #258 on: May 04, 2022, 08:54:28 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore
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Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #259 on: May 04, 2022, 09:02:46 AM »

Online jambr380

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid sideline 3. I included him, not because he was some amazing piece that we gave up, but because he provided some level of depth. We literally went 7 deep on the roster last night - he is a break in case of emergency option, but at least you trust his D and know that he isn't going to jack up bad shots.

JRich was just flat out better than White. If it was just a matter of better ball-movement, then I'm sure he would have been amenable to that. It's not like White is an incredible playmaker, he just makes simple, fast passes. I realize there is more to basketball than just scoring, but we gave up a good defensive player/scorer, another good defensive player, and a 1st rounder for a player who was supposed to better than all of the pieces we gave up. And, honestly, I'm not sure a healthy Romeo couldn't provide what White is giving right now, never mind JRich and the 1st.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 09:08:19 AM by jambr380 »

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #260 on: May 04, 2022, 09:06:54 AM »

Online jambr380

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #261 on: May 04, 2022, 09:09:30 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid baseline 3.

JRich was just flat out better than White.
Wrong on both counts. Romeo is a below average shooter and a merely good defender, and Richardson is inferior to White in every way except three point shooting (and marginally better at turning it over less, I suppose). The defence isn't even close, and neither is the passing.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #262 on: May 04, 2022, 09:10:12 AM »

Offline gouki88

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.
What good players did we give up? Because Richardson and Langford certainly do not meet that description
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #263 on: May 04, 2022, 09:15:50 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.
What good players did we give up? Because Richardson and Langford certainly do not meet that description

Now you're just reaching. We certainly overpaid for White, which is something we're not used to a celtics FO doing. Sometimes you have to do that to get the guy you want. We'll see if that ends up being the right decision.

Essentially we needed to give up Schroeder and Richardson for White. Both of those guys are proven playoff performers. Are they miles better than White? Probably not, but you can't just say we didn't give anyone good up.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #264 on: May 04, 2022, 09:18:45 AM »

Offline gouki88

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.
What good players did we give up? Because Richardson and Langford certainly do not meet that description

Now you're just reaching. We certainly overpaid for White, which is something we're not used to a celtics FO doing. Sometimes you have to do that to get the guy you want. We'll see if that ends up being the right decision.

Essentially we needed to give up Schroeder and Richardson for White. Both of those guys are proven playoff performers. Are they miles better than White? Probably not, but you can't just say we didn't give anyone good up.
Firstly, we didn't give up Schroder for White - not sure why he was brought up. Secondly, both of those guys are serious underperformers in the playoffs. Look at their playoff statistics. You may want to rethink "proven playoff performers".
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #265 on: May 04, 2022, 09:31:46 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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He does more for our team than Schroeder. Which is a net positive itself, but yeah it's hard to watch him play right now. It's too bad we couldn't have put Schroeder in that Spurs trade instead of Richardson.

Then we wouldn't have Theis.

Perhaps the best thing to do to maximize our chances this year would have been to acquire White with our trade exception, rather than by trading Richardson.  But, even assuming the Spurs would have been okay with that, it would have cost a ton in luxury tax.

In the White trade, I am not sure that SAN wanted Richardson as much as we wanted to shed salary.  There probably was a scenario where we end up with Richardson but not Theis but pay tax.  Tax was potentially a factor but there is also the trade off of do you want more depth at big or at wing?  It is reasonable to assume the team thought big depth was more important than wing depth.  To me, White was about replacing Schroder.  White is under contract, Schroder was not helping all that much and would be 1 and done.

As to White, he continues to clearly help the team win in mysterious ways that are not reflecting in his traditional stats.  I honestly don't fully understand it.  He clearly has the "yips" shooting.  MIL will adjust and exploit this more when he is on the court.  That is my fear.  But so far, that has not really mattered.  We continue to do well when White is on the court.  By the blind squirrel theory, White has to hit some shots eventually, right?

At this point, White is a good luck charm at best. People who are boldly coming to his defense need to chill out a bit. We had already turned around our season before the trade deadline and just continued to play well after it. This was because of our stars and the rest of our starters, not Derek White. It's pretty annoying hearing that one of White's best attributes is that he keeps the ball moving. Like, of course -he is so bad at shooting/scoring, but I guess he has self-awareness. I always feel bad for him when he has to take a wide open 3 - he and everybody else in the world knows it's not going in. But it's not even just the 3s - he can't hit midrange and his floater has completely fallen off a cliff.

Frankly, with the way White is playing, people are delusional right now if they wouldn't rather have JRich and Romeo - both versatile, willing defenders. We also haven't had a back-up wing on this team since the deadline. Like I said, I am pulling for White, but let's stop pretending he has been good - he hasn't.
Problem being they're both worse at defence than White. And Romeo would be in the rehab group

Yeah, Langford was not someone you should be counting on.  He wasn't that good to start but there was always the durability cloud hanging over his head.  So I don't see how you can conclude that Langford would have been better than even Nesmith in the playoffs, much less White.

And you also can't just say we should have kept Richardson over White.  There is no way we would have traded Schroder for Theis if we didn't have White.  So it is really having White + Theis or Schroder + Richardson.  White has been an enigma, that is for sure.  The team has played well with him on the floor (+10 overall) but he is 17% from 3 and 29% overall, that is bad.  He is clearly doing the "little things" well and allowing others to play well but at a point, he is going to need to hit some shots or it will hurt the team.

I just think your second point is a weird take. We are talking about our back-up guards. I'm sure we would have been fine with Pritchard and JRich as the back-ups. They both have played PG in the past and it's not like JRich doesn't provide the size and defensive ability of White.

I get it, we all want the White trade to work out. We gave up good players and a pick (hopefully not picks in '28) so we need to convince ourselves it was the right move. White still has time to redeem himself, but I'm not going to pretend his arrival was the beginning of our turnaround. That had already happened well before the deadline.
What good players did we give up? Because Richardson and Langford certainly do not meet that description

Now you're just reaching. We certainly overpaid for White, which is something we're not used to a celtics FO doing. Sometimes you have to do that to get the guy you want. We'll see if that ends up being the right decision.

Essentially we needed to give up Schroeder and Richardson for White. Both of those guys are proven playoff performers. Are they miles better than White? Probably not, but you can't just say we didn't give anyone good up.
Firstly, we didn't give up Schroder for White - not sure why he was brought up. Secondly, both of those guys are serious underperformers in the playoffs. Look at their playoff statistics. You may want to rethink "proven playoff performers".

A couple of things, the front office's goal was to stay under the luxury tax. We know this. To acquire White and stay below the tax line Richardson and Schroeder needed to go. Ignore the fact that if we had kept Schroeder we'd have 4 point guards on our team. So yeah you're right Schroeder didn't go to the Spurs in the trade, but that trade doesn't happen unless the Houston trade is on the table.

2nd: I did look up both of their playoff stats: In the last 4 years here are their best playoff stat lines:

Schroeder: 24/3/8
Richardson: 16/3/42

As 6th men, I don't consider them underperformers.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #266 on: May 04, 2022, 09:35:08 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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 We don’t win this game without White .

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #267 on: May 04, 2022, 09:37:54 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid sideline 3. I included him, not because he was some amazing piece that we gave up, but because he provided some level of depth. We literally went 7 deep on the roster last night - he is a break in case of emergency option, but at least you trust his D and know that he isn't going to jack up bad shots.

JRich was just flat out better than White. If it was just a matter of better ball-movement, then I'm sure he would have been amenable to that. It's not like White is an incredible playmaker, he just makes simple, fast passes. I realize there is more to basketball than just scoring, but we gave up a good defensive player/scorer, another good defensive player, and a 1st rounder for a player who was supposed to better than all of the pieces we gave up. And, honestly, I'm not sure a healthy Romeo couldn't provide what White is giving right now, never mind JRich and the 1st.

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It's not like White is an incredible playmaker, he just makes simple, fast passes.

This is a strange take since aside from Chris Paul, the best playmakers in the league are tending to make simple fast passes rather than pounding the air out of the ball. 3 point shooting aside, Derrick White would fit right in on those Warriors teams from a playmaking perspective with these same quick simple passes that means the ball never sticks.

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Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid sideline 3. I included him, not because he was some amazing piece that we gave up, but because he provided some level of depth.

Romeo was given all the chance in the world to succeed here and either lacked the drive, talent, or pain tolerance to stay on the court and claim his spot in the rotation. Nesmith may not have shown much since he's got here, but he's shown more than Langford did with less opportunity. Nesmith deserves to be the sole break in case of emergency guy since he's proven to be more likely to be there when he's called.

I miss J Rich, he was a great player while he was here but Derrick White is definitely an Ime guy and the coach has earned the right to have someone in the backcourt who will run the sets like he draws them up every time. Udoka clearly trusts White's instincts and -again 3 point shooting aside- it's going to make for a hard decision this summer when Marcus Smart trade conversations inevitably start up again.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #268 on: May 04, 2022, 09:43:28 AM »

Online jambr380

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid baseline 3.

JRich was just flat out better than White.
Wrong on both counts. Romeo is a below average shooter and a merely good defender, and Richardson is inferior to White in every way except three point shooting (and marginally better at turning it over less, I suppose). The defence isn't even close, and neither is the passing.

Agree to disagree. I believe both JRich and Romeo were very good defenders - it's ridiculous to say that it 'isn't even close.' And this isn't even about Romeo (who I believe would be giving us as much as White is right now) or the picks(s); I just don't know how anybody would currently rather have White than Richardson right now. White has been bad. Richardson could be bad, but there is a very good chance he would be better than how bad White has been.

It doesn't mean that things can't change, but I think that the FO greatly overestimated how effective White would be and had no idea that he would completely meltdown when faced with real pressure.

Re: Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap
« Reply #269 on: May 04, 2022, 09:50:09 AM »

Online jambr380

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Romeo is a bust..he had no part here anymore

Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid sideline 3. I included him, not because he was some amazing piece that we gave up, but because he provided some level of depth. We literally went 7 deep on the roster last night - he is a break in case of emergency option, but at least you trust his D and know that he isn't going to jack up bad shots.

JRich was just flat out better than White. If it was just a matter of better ball-movement, then I'm sure he would have been amenable to that. It's not like White is an incredible playmaker, he just makes simple, fast passes. I realize there is more to basketball than just scoring, but we gave up a good defensive player/scorer, another good defensive player, and a 1st rounder for a player who was supposed to better than all of the pieces we gave up. And, honestly, I'm not sure a healthy Romeo couldn't provide what White is giving right now, never mind JRich and the 1st.

Quote
It's not like White is an incredible playmaker, he just makes simple, fast passes.

This is a strange take since aside from Chris Paul, the best playmakers in the league are tending to make simple fast passes rather than pounding the air out of the ball. 3 point shooting aside, Derrick White would fit right in on those Warriors teams from a playmaking perspective with these same quick simple passes that means the ball never sticks.

Quote
Romeo was an excellent defender and had developed a pretty solid sideline 3. I included him, not because he was some amazing piece that we gave up, but because he provided some level of depth.

Romeo was given all the chance in the world to succeed here and either lacked the drive, talent, or pain tolerance to stay on the court and claim his spot in the rotation. Nesmith may not have shown much since he's got here, but he's shown more than Langford did with less opportunity. Nesmith deserves to be the sole break in case of emergency guy since he's proven to be more likely to be there when he's called.

I miss J Rich, he was a great player while he was here but Derrick White is definitely an Ime guy and the coach has earned the right to have someone in the backcourt who will run the sets like he draws them up every time. Udoka clearly trusts White's instincts and -again 3 point shooting aside- it's going to make for a hard decision this summer when Marcus Smart trade conversations inevitably start up again.

As far as simple, fast passes, I would say that has more to do with willingness than ability. White has been 'successful' because he plays within himself, not because he is a major impact player. That would be fine if he had any semblance of a scoring game, but that hasn't proven to be the case.

I literally said it in my above comment that you referenced, but I don't really care about Romeo, so there is no reason to bring him up. I was only trying to use a slight exaggeration that even he would be as effective as White. He clearly wasn't a major piece for us, but he was available. Even Brad trusted him to start playoff games in a pinch.

And, no, Smart is not getting traded. Smart is 10x the player White is at a similar salary. He literally does everything better than White. White, Theis, Nesmith, and picks could land us a pretty solid player, though.