B/R trade idea: Siakam to the C's

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

[Who]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

I agree and I'd add that I thought Marc Gasol added a lot to Siakam's efficiency. Gasol's ability to move to the perimeter and vacate the paint, to be a shooting threat and to be an elite high post passer enabled Siakam's cutting and post-up opportunities which generated a good chunk of Siakam's high efficiency shots in the halfcourt. Without that type of a center, those opportunities disappeared and Siakam became more dependent on dribble drive opportunities and outside shooting for his scoring.

Marc Gasol did a great job hitting Kawhi and Siakam as they cut across the lane for quick post ups. Kawhi had that lethal midrange fadeaway or power post move. Siakam had a quick first step, length and elevation to finish over people easily once he got close enough to the basket.

Funnily enough they have the same dynamic now with Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam. Two big athletic forwards who do not score that well from the perimeter but they both do a great job when cutting and when posting up inside ... and now Toronto needs a new Marc Gasol to enable these high percentage offensive opportunities for them.

[Ogaju]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

I agree and I'd add that I thought Marc Gasol added a lot to Siakam's efficiency. Gasol's ability to move to the perimeter and vacate the paint, to be a shooting threat and to be an elite high post passer enabled Siakam's cutting and post-up opportunities which generated a good chunk of Siakam's high efficiency shots in the halfcourt. Without that type of a center, those opportunities disappeared and Siakam became more dependent on dribble drive opportunities and outside shooting for his scoring.

Marc Gasol did a great job hitting Kawhi and Siakam as they cut across the lane for quick post ups. Kawhi had that lethal midrange fadeaway or power post move. Siakam had a quick first step, length and elevation to finish over people easily once he got close enough to the basket.

Funnily enough they have the same dynamic now with Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam. Two big athletic forwards who do not score that well from the perimeter but they both do a great job when cutting and when posting up inside ... and now Toronto needs a new Marc Gasol to enable these high percentage offensive opportunities for them.

If that worked so well for them why can’t Cs adopt some of that concept with Horford and the Jays.

[Who]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

I agree and I'd add that I thought Marc Gasol added a lot to Siakam's efficiency. Gasol's ability to move to the perimeter and vacate the paint, to be a shooting threat and to be an elite high post passer enabled Siakam's cutting and post-up opportunities which generated a good chunk of Siakam's high efficiency shots in the halfcourt. Without that type of a center, those opportunities disappeared and Siakam became more dependent on dribble drive opportunities and outside shooting for his scoring.

Marc Gasol did a great job hitting Kawhi and Siakam as they cut across the lane for quick post ups. Kawhi had that lethal midrange fadeaway or power post move. Siakam had a quick first step, length and elevation to finish over people easily once he got close enough to the basket.

Funnily enough they have the same dynamic now with Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam. Two big athletic forwards who do not score that well from the perimeter but they both do a great job when cutting and when posting up inside ... and now Toronto needs a new Marc Gasol to enable these high percentage offensive opportunities for them.

If that worked so well for them why can’t Cs adopt some of that concept with Horford and the Jays.

Yep, Horford is perfect for Siakam.

Rob Williams' isn't though because he can't shoot so guys can sag off him and give quick doubles to eliminate those post ups.


Edit: Dang, sorry. I misread that.

Horford and the Jays = Yes, I agree entirely. It would work great with them. Again, when Rob Williams is not on the floor. I'd love to see Horford doing those passes into the paint instead of just doing dribble hand offs to Jays on the perimeter for perimeter offense. Both Jaylen and Tatum would be a nightmare on quick catches around the paint.

Marcus Smart at PG would actually be a threat too for some quick posts ups. Not too many. Just one now and then. Beat up some smaller PGs. Let him play bully ball in the paint instead of trying to beat guys off the dribble.

[blink]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

I agree and I'd add that I thought Marc Gasol added a lot to Siakam's efficiency. Gasol's ability to move to the perimeter and vacate the paint, to be a shooting threat and to be an elite high post passer enabled Siakam's cutting and post-up opportunities which generated a good chunk of Siakam's high efficiency shots in the halfcourt. Without that type of a center, those opportunities disappeared and Siakam became more dependent on dribble drive opportunities and outside shooting for his scoring.

Marc Gasol did a great job hitting Kawhi and Siakam as they cut across the lane for quick post ups. Kawhi had that lethal midrange fadeaway or power post move. Siakam had a quick first step, length and elevation to finish over people easily once he got close enough to the basket.

Funnily enough they have the same dynamic now with Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam. Two big athletic forwards who do not score that well from the perimeter but they both do a great job when cutting and when posting up inside ... and now Toronto needs a new Marc Gasol to enable these high percentage offensive opportunities for them.

If that worked so well for them why can’t Cs adopt some of that concept with Horford and the Jays.

if Timelord could learn to hit a 17 foot shoot, Siakam would likely get a lot of good open looks from him as well.

[Who]

I love passes inside a defense. They force the entire opposing team to turn their head and see where the ball is going while adjusting their positioning. This creates opportunities for cutting and advantageous offense.

It is much more valuable than sideways passes on the perimeter. Those sideways passes allow a defense to stay in position with all five guys between the basket and the ball. They are setup and in position to contest the play.

Get the pass inside the defense and now they are turning their heads. Some guys are in front of the ball and the rim while other guys are behind the ball and the rim and no longer in position to contest the play.

Penetrative passes vs sideways lateral passes.

[seancally]

If we managed to bring in Siakam without giving up the Jays or Timelord, that would be a coup. If Dragic comes back too, all the better. I love it. I doubt the Raps do it, but mostly because I think another team might outbid that offer. Maybe not though I’m not so plugged in.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I love the concept of Pascal Siakim, but I have been completely underwhelmed with him since he took the "leap" forward as a player.

He was an uber-efficient perfect third guy on a good team. He hustled. He had great versatile defense.

Then he "added" more scoring and usage. Frankly, it turned him into a less valuable player. He doesn't try as hard on defense or hustle players. He shoots bad shots and turns it over a good amount. He's not a bad player or anything like that. It's just that he was much better as a 17-7-3 guy. If he agreed to fit that role again, I'm all for it.

If Draymond Green started trying to play like Julius Randle, he wouldn't be as valuable. It's not a perfect example, but that's how I feel when I see the way Siakim has "added" to his game.

I agree and I'd add that I thought Marc Gasol added a lot to Siakam's efficiency. Gasol's ability to move to the perimeter and vacate the paint, to be a shooting threat and to be an elite high post passer enabled Siakam's cutting and post-up opportunities which generated a good chunk of Siakam's high efficiency shots in the halfcourt. Without that type of a center, those opportunities disappeared and Siakam became more dependent on dribble drive opportunities and outside shooting for his scoring.

Marc Gasol did a great job hitting Kawhi and Siakam as they cut across the lane for quick post ups. Kawhi had that lethal midrange fadeaway or power post move. Siakam had a quick first step, length and elevation to finish over people easily once he got close enough to the basket.

Funnily enough they have the same dynamic now with Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam. Two big athletic forwards who do not score that well from the perimeter but they both do a great job when cutting and when posting up inside ... and now Toronto needs a new Marc Gasol to enable these high percentage offensive opportunities for them.

If that worked so well for them why can’t Cs adopt some of that concept with Horford and the Jays.

Yep, Horford is perfect for Siakam.

Rob Williams' isn't though because he can't shoot so guys can sag off him and give quick doubles to eliminate those post ups.


Edit: Dang, sorry. I misread that.

Horford and the Jays = Yes, I agree entirely. It would work great with them. Again, when Rob Williams is not on the floor. I'd love to see Horford doing those passes into the paint instead of just doing dribble hand offs to Jays on the perimeter for perimeter offense. Both Jaylen and Tatum would be a nightmare on quick catches around the paint.

Marcus Smart at PG would actually be a threat too for some quick posts ups. Not too many. Just one now and then. Beat up some smaller PGs. Let him play bully ball in the paint instead of trying to beat guys off the dribble.

Have a feeling Smart does it a good amount

Always want Jayson to post up more but I can see the logic of forcing him and Brown to play outside and making them learn to be complete perimeter players