Bench Smart / Marcus Calls Out The Jays

[hpantazo]

To me it came off more like he was calling out Ime and his play calling rather than Tatum and Brown. He clearly stated that everyone knew they were going to Tatum down the stretch and they didn't change anything up, he was frustrated that he was standing in the corner away from the ball. He probably misses Stevens, who let him run the offense and shoot at will down the stretch.

[LilRip]

I rewatched the game and took note of all our offensive possessions starting around 7min after Ime calls a timeout. This is right after Lavine hit that ridiculous fall away jumper over Horford and the C’s are reeling. For all of us complaining about Tatum not passing (looking at you Smart!), maybe you should read this (also something to note: C’s could not stop the Bulls at all from this point on).

—
6:53 to go in fourth, after C’s time out

Score: 105-106
JB brings it down to start play. Smart sets screen for Tatum in the corner. Tatum turns the corner and makes a hard cut to middle. Gets pass, attacks, bumped by Vuc in paint, misses the layup. Horford with putback slam

Score: 107-108
Horford starts play at the top, C’s run same play and Tatum gets fouled by Ball making the same hard cut.
Tatum inbounds to Smart. Back to Tatum. Runs PnR with Horford, defense shifts to contain Tatum. Kick out to Horford. Pump fake, drive, and-1

110-110
Smart starts action, runs side PnR with Horford. Drive and kick out to Horford in corner. Horford posts up Derozan and Smart relocates to corner. Horford throws it out to Smart. Smart throws back in post. Horford turns it over, defended by Derozan

110-112
Tatum starts action. Runs PnR with Horford, gets doubled, kicks it out to Horford. Horford misses the 3

110-114
Smart brings it down and passes to Horford high post. Tatum sets screen for JB, who gets DHO going to the middle. Brown bottled up, bad pass to Richardson who catches the ball at his knees. Horford flashes to the outside and gets the pass. Tatum posts up and calls for it. Ball is passed to Tatum and double immediately comes. Horford cuts. Tatum passes to Horford, but pass is tipped by Jones. Tatum recovers ball beyond arc with 2 sec left, hoists desperation 3. Richardson o-board, DHO to Tatum on baseline. Strong drive past Derozan and euro past Vuc. Hits the layup

112-116
Smart brings ball down. Ball swings to Tatum at opposite side of floor. JB flashes middle, Tatum holds and takes Jones 1v1. He drives by him but misses contested layup, complains to ref.

112-118
Smart brings ball; off ball action, Horford sets screen for Brown who dives down the middle. Horford receives the ball and passes to Brown who has his man sealed in the paint. Missed layup

112-119
Smart starts offense. Brown and Horford fake a double off-ball screen for Tatum, who cuts middle, while Brown flashes to the outside, after receiving an off ball screen from Horford. Smart passes to Brown who pulls up for a contested 3 over Caruso. Miss

112-121
Smart brings up ball. Tatum gets ball at the wing, and strong side is overloaded (Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Horford all on one side of floor). Horford clears to other side. Tatum backs down Ball and double comes off of Smart. Tatum passes out to wide open Smart for 3. Miss

112-121
Tatum brings ball down. Horford catches high post, fakes hand off to cutting Tatum. Hands off to Brown who bobbles. Turnover

112-124
Tatum initiates again. PnR with Horford, and Smart’s man cheats off him for soft double. Tatum passes to Smart, whose man recovers. Pump fake, drive. Defense collapses. Smart kicks out to open Tatum for 3. Miss

Garbage time.

[Somebody]

I rewatched the game and took note of all our offensive possessions starting around 7min after Ime calls a timeout. This is right after Lavine hit that ridiculous fall away jumper over Horford and the C’s are reeling. For all of us complaining about Tatum not passing (looking at you Smart!), maybe you should read this (also something to note: C’s could not stop the Bulls at all from this point on).

—
6:53 to go in fourth, after C’s time out

Score: 105-106
JB brings it down to start play. Smart sets screen for Tatum in the corner. Tatum turns the corner and makes a hard cut to middle. Gets pass, attacks, bumped by Vuc in paint, misses the layup. Horford with putback slam

Score: 107-108
Horford starts play at the top, C’s run same play and Tatum gets fouled by Ball making the same hard cut.
Tatum inbounds to Smart. Back to Tatum. Runs PnR with Horford, defense shifts to contain Tatum. Kick out to Horford. Pump fake, drive, and-1

110-110
Smart starts action, runs side PnR with Horford. Drive and kick out to Horford in corner. Horford posts up Derozan and Smart relocates to corner. Horford throws it out to Smart. Smart throws back in post. Horford turns it over, defended by Derozan

110-112
Tatum starts action. Runs PnR with Horford, gets doubled, kicks it out to Horford. Horford misses the 3

110-114
Smart brings it down and passes to Horford high post. Tatum sets screen for JB, who gets DHO going to the middle. Brown bottled up, bad pass to Richardson who catches the ball at his knees. Horford flashes to the outside and gets the pass. Tatum posts up and calls for it. Ball is passed to Tatum and double immediately comes. Horford cuts. Tatum passes to Horford, but pass is tipped by Jones. Tatum recovers ball beyond arc with 2 sec left, hoists desperation 3. Richardson o-board, DHO to Tatum on baseline. Strong drive past Derozan and euro past Vuc. Hits the layup

112-116
Smart brings ball down. Ball swings to Tatum at opposite side of floor. JB flashes middle, Tatum holds and takes Jones 1v1. He drives by him but misses contested layup, complains to ref.

112-118
Smart brings ball; off ball action, Horford sets screen for Brown who dives down the middle. Horford receives the ball and passes to Brown who has his man sealed in the paint. Missed layup

112-119
Smart starts offense. Brown and Horford fake a double off-ball screen for Tatum, who cuts middle, while Brown flashes to the outside, after receiving an off ball screen from Horford. Smart passes to Brown who pulls up for a contested 3 over Caruso. Miss

112-121
Smart brings up ball. Tatum gets ball at the wing, and strong side is overloaded (Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Horford all on one side of floor). Horford clears to other side. Tatum backs down Ball and double comes off of Smart. Tatum passes out to wide open Smart for 3. Miss

112-121
Tatum brings ball down. Horford catches high post, fakes hand off to cutting Tatum. Hands off to Brown who bobbles. Turnover

112-124
Tatum initiates again. PnR with Horford, and Smart’s man cheats off him for soft double. Tatum passes to Smart, whose man recovers. Pump fake, drive. Defense collapses. Smart kicks out to open Tatum for 3. Miss

Garbage time.

Yeah the Jays not passing simply wasn't true. Our coaching being woeful was though.

[jpotter33]

I think people’s Smart bias here are clouding their thinking. Smart is absolutely right in what he’s saying, and it’s less of a criticism and more of a statement about the Jays’ next steps as stars - making their team better, which we all talk about constantly. I didn’t see this as calling out the Jays but rather just stating that that’s where they’re struggling, because their two best players are working on adding to their games to improve the team.

Also, as others have said I think this is as much pointed at Ime as others, as he hasn’t figured out yet how to help the Jays do this.

Ultimately, though, to me the defense is the thing that is much more worrisome than the offense. I think either replacing Smart with Schroeder or just going smaller in the starting/closing lineup and having more point guard play out there is an easy fix to most of the offensive issues. Enough with the two big crap. But there’s absolutely no excuse for why our defense is as bad as it is right now. We’re just not committed or communicating on that side of the ball.

[Roy H.]

I think people’s Smart bias here are clouding their thinking. Smart is absolutely right in what he’s saying, and it’s less of a criticism and more of a statement about the Jays’ next steps as stars - making their team better, which we all talk about constantly. I didn’t see this as calling out the Jays but rather just stating that that’s where they’re struggling, because their two best players are working on adding to their games to improve the team.

Also, as others have said I think this is as much pointed at Ime as others, as he hasn’t figured out yet how to help the Jays do this.

Ultimately, though, to me the defense is the thing that is much more worrisome than the offense. I think either replacing Smart with Schroeder or just going smaller in the starting/closing lineup and having more point guard play out there is an easy fix to most of the offensive issues. Enough with the two big crap. But there’s absolutely no excuse for why our defense is as bad as it is right now. We’re just not committed or communicating on that side of the ball.

Is Marcus the right messenger?  And should he be doing this in the media, particularly on a night when he didn’t have an assist?

[RMO]

I think people’s Smart bias here are clouding their thinking. Smart is absolutely right in what he’s saying, and it’s less of a criticism and more of a statement about the Jays’ next steps as stars - making their team better, which we all talk about constantly. I didn’t see this as calling out the Jays but rather just stating that that’s where they’re struggling, because their two best players are working on adding to their games to improve the team.

Also, as others have said I think this is as much pointed at Ime as others, as he hasn’t figured out yet how to help the Jays do this.

Ultimately, though, to me the defense is the thing that is much more worrisome than the offense. I think either replacing Smart with Schroeder or just going smaller in the starting/closing lineup and having more point guard play out there is an easy fix to most of the offensive issues. Enough with the two big crap. But there’s absolutely no excuse for why our defense is as bad as it is right now. We’re just not committed or communicating on that side of the ball.

That too is how I read it.  That everyone's game plan is to pressure them and that the next step in their development as stars is to take the defense out of their game plan and trust their teammates.  Seems like he feels he shares some of the responsibility in getting them to that next level.

[Roy H.]

Also, how much of this can we attribute to poor roster construction?

We always here that the key when you have a great player is to "surround them with shooters".  And yet, we're playing a two-big lineup.  Worse, we have a "shooting guard" playing point guard, and that "shooting guard" is one of the least efficient shooters in the NBA. 

You know what would be wild?  Having a guy in the lineup who can average 15 to 19 ppg while shooting 40%+ from 3PT.  If only we had had Bird rights to a guy like that this past off-season.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is coming from a guy who bricked an open three with 2 minutes left, after Jayson Tatum drew a double team leaving him open, and PASSING the ball to him!?

I liked Marcus Smart, but this comment made me sour on him. I don't want him on this team moving forward. What he did just offered more of a distraction than a fix. We don't need that.

Get rid of him ASAP.

[Celtics2021]

Also, how much of this can we attribute to poor roster construction?

We always here that the key when you have a great player is to "surround them with shooters".  And yet, we're playing a two-big lineup.  Worse, we have a "shooting guard" playing point guard, and that "shooting guard" is one of the least efficient shooters in the NBA. 

You know what would be wild?  Having a guy in the lineup who can average 15 to 19 ppg while shooting 40%+ from 3PT.  If only we had had Bird rights to a guy like that this past off-season.

The two-big lineup complaint makes no sense to me.  For one, it's only been on the court for 45 minutes all season, or under 13% of the time.  It's far from our primary look.  Secondly, the team has a net rating of 13.7 when that lineup is on the floor.  It's been pretty successful.

[trickybilly]

I never complain about media "bad takes" but golly.

Smart might will make an elite coach one day

[ozgod]

As @Lilrip said, the actual rewatching of the 4th quarter doesn't justify what Smartacus said, that the Jays weren't passing. They were.

Smart’s comments should only add fuel to the fire for Boston’s 2-5 start but they also ring relatively hollow after this particular loss. A second watch of the team’s fourth quarter collapse shows Tatum and Brown making plenty of passes and right reads in the face of double teams and getting open looks from 3-point range for numerous teammates including Josh Richardson, Al Horford and even Smart himself, all resulting in misses.

Both Brown and Tatum had a shot attempt or two that may have been forced in the fourth quarter but they’ve earned that right as All-Stars to take those here and there. A lack of ball movement from that duo was far from the reason the Celtics mustered just 11 points in the fourth quarter though. Both missed easy shots at the rim but the same can be said for the guys they were passing it to. The rest of the Celtics roster went 4-of-13 from the field amid the Bulls runaway victory with Tatum and Brown creating clean looks for teammates on a number of those shots.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/why-marcus-smart-pass-the-ball-critiques-of-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-dont-hold-weight-after-celtics-collapse-brian-robb.html

And Smartacus doubled down on being the solution.

Smart may have had positive intentions with his remarks but airing both of his more talented teammates out publicly was out of line when considering the circumstances. Smart finished the game with zero assists himself and while he had a solid shooting night overall (5-of-11 FG, 3-of-5 3pt) his shooting percentages for the season over his first six games are still horrific (25 percent from field, 23 percent from 3-point range). Amid years of questionable shot selection from Smart, never once have Tatum and Brown publicly taken issue with their teammate. However, he pointed to himself as the solution for Boston’s offensive woes on Monday.

“I mean, I think if I’m getting in the lane and I’m making it easy for other guys, I’m making it easier for everybody,” Smart explained. “Even if my shots aren’t falling, the threat that I put on teams coming off the pick-and-roll and getting to the basket or being in the post. Teams are doubling me in the post and if they do, everybody knows I’m a great passer and I’m going to find guys. Just really taking some ease off of Jayson and Jaylen early on in the game and even late in games sometimes so we’re not exhausting ourselves on the offensive end and then getting picked on the defensive end.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/why-marcus-smart-pass-the-ball-critiques-of-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-dont-hold-weight-after-celtics-collapse-brian-robb.html

I agree with @Moranis, I don't think the Jays were the target of Smart's frustration, it's probably more aimed at Ime and his offensive scheme. I can understand the frustration, because we can see elements of truth in it, particularly for those of us with the opinion that "Tatum hogs the ball and dribbles the air out of it". Smartacus is being used more as a floor spacer, the way Jaylen always is and the way Hayward used to be when he was here, and he doesn't like it. And there's plenty to not like about Ime's offensive scheme right now. But it wasn't helpful in the sense that the media is now running with the "Smart says the Jays don't pass" narrative and it's something the Jays will have to answer every time there's a loss where the offense doesn't click in the 4th quarter. These types of things should always be kept in house, because why introduce outside noise into your locker room?

[liam]

As @Lilrip said, the actual rewatching of the 4th quarter doesn't justify what Smartacus said, that the Jays weren't passing. They were.

Smart’s comments should only add fuel to the fire for Boston’s 2-5 start but they also ring relatively hollow after this particular loss. A second watch of the team’s fourth quarter collapse shows Tatum and Brown making plenty of passes and right reads in the face of double teams and getting open looks from 3-point range for numerous teammates including Josh Richardson, Al Horford and even Smart himself, all resulting in misses.

Both Brown and Tatum had a shot attempt or two that may have been forced in the fourth quarter but they’ve earned that right as All-Stars to take those here and there. A lack of ball movement from that duo was far from the reason the Celtics mustered just 11 points in the fourth quarter though. Both missed easy shots at the rim but the same can be said for the guys they were passing it to. The rest of the Celtics roster went 4-of-13 from the field amid the Bulls runaway victory with Tatum and Brown creating clean looks for teammates on a number of those shots.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/why-marcus-smart-pass-the-ball-critiques-of-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-dont-hold-weight-after-celtics-collapse-brian-robb.html

And Smartacus doubled down on being the solution.

Smart may have had positive intentions with his remarks but airing both of his more talented teammates out publicly was out of line when considering the circumstances. Smart finished the game with zero assists himself and while he had a solid shooting night overall (5-of-11 FG, 3-of-5 3pt) his shooting percentages for the season over his first six games are still horrific (25 percent from field, 23 percent from 3-point range). Amid years of questionable shot selection from Smart, never once have Tatum and Brown publicly taken issue with their teammate. However, he pointed to himself as the solution for Boston’s offensive woes on Monday.

“I mean, I think if I’m getting in the lane and I’m making it easy for other guys, I’m making it easier for everybody,” Smart explained. “Even if my shots aren’t falling, the threat that I put on teams coming off the pick-and-roll and getting to the basket or being in the post. Teams are doubling me in the post and if they do, everybody knows I’m a great passer and I’m going to find guys. Just really taking some ease off of Jayson and Jaylen early on in the game and even late in games sometimes so we’re not exhausting ourselves on the offensive end and then getting picked on the defensive end.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/11/why-marcus-smart-pass-the-ball-critiques-of-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-dont-hold-weight-after-celtics-collapse-brian-robb.html

I agree with @Moranis, I don't think the Jays were the target of Smart's frustration, it's probably more aimed at Ime and his offensive scheme. Smartacus is being used as a floor spacer, the way Jaylen always is and the way Hayward used to be when he was here, and he doesn't like it. But it wasn't helpful in the sense that the media is now running with the "Smart says the Jays don't pass" narrative and it's something the Jays will have to answer every time there's a loss where the offense doesn't click in the 4th quarter.

Smart with zero assists.

[Roy H.]

Also, how much of this can we attribute to poor roster construction?

We always here that the key when you have a great player is to "surround them with shooters".  And yet, we're playing a two-big lineup.  Worse, we have a "shooting guard" playing point guard, and that "shooting guard" is one of the least efficient shooters in the NBA. 

You know what would be wild?  Having a guy in the lineup who can average 15 to 19 ppg while shooting 40%+ from 3PT.  If only we had had Bird rights to a guy like that this past off-season.

The two-big lineup complaint makes no sense to me.  For one, it's only been on the court for 45 minutes all season, or under 13% of the time.  It's far from our primary look.  Secondly, the team has a net rating of 13.7 when that lineup is on the floor.  It's been pretty successful.

It’s well over twice that when you add other two-big lineups.  And the issue is, we’re leaving Tatum and Brown without offensive finishers from the outside.  That results in more double teams and fewer passing lanes. 

Our base lineup is the Jays surrounded by a complete non-shooter and two guys shooting below 30% from outside.  Do you think that a 45 minute sample size is sufficient to project that lineup will be successful long term?

[Celtics2021]

Also, how much of this can we attribute to poor roster construction?

We always here that the key when you have a great player is to "surround them with shooters".  And yet, we're playing a two-big lineup.  Worse, we have a "shooting guard" playing point guard, and that "shooting guard" is one of the least efficient shooters in the NBA. 

You know what would be wild?  Having a guy in the lineup who can average 15 to 19 ppg while shooting 40%+ from 3PT.  If only we had had Bird rights to a guy like that this past off-season.

The two-big lineup complaint makes no sense to me.  For one, it's only been on the court for 45 minutes all season, or under 13% of the time.  It's far from our primary look.  Secondly, the team has a net rating of 13.7 when that lineup is on the floor.  It's been pretty successful.

It’s well over twice that when you add other two-big lineups.  And the issue is, we’re leaving Tatum and Brown without offensive finishers from the outside.  That results in more double teams and fewer passing lanes. 

Our base lineup is the Jays surrounded by a complete non-shooter and two guys shooting below 30% from outside.  Do you think that a 45 minute sample size is sufficient to project that lineup will be successful long term?

What other two-big lineups?  You mean Grant?  I thought most people said Grant wasn’t a true big, so I went with the Horford-Williams pairing.  We almost never see Kanter or Hernangomez.  Parker?

The two-big lineup isn’t great on offense, no surprise.  But it’s highly effective on defense.  And considering our defense is bottom 4 in the league, maybe we should fix that a bit.  The problem last night was that the Bulls scored on literally every possession in the 4th quarter when they took a shot, and the two-big lineup didn’t play for a second in that quarter.

[johnnygreen]

I keep hearing how Tatum is taller than his 6’8” listing, put on all this muscle, and should be able to play in the paint now. Why, in all of creation, is Tatum taking outside shots when the Bulls have 4 starters that are 6’6” or under, and a center that can’t defend? And when Tatum did drive to the rim, he seemed to be missing layups. Why was he not posting up DeRozan or Caruso? I guarantee if he did, he would have also attempted more than the 4 free throws he had last night.

I have to admit, that Bulls team is fun to watch. Players that move without the ball, and the ball is constantly being passed for open looks. But at least the Celtics have the Jay’s/ball stoppers. I have been questioning Brown’s basketball IQ, but I’m starting to think the same criticism may apply to Tatum too.