Report: Schroder Signs With Celts

[BudweiserCeltic]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

He's using the 2-year vet minimum which seems the only amount that is counted towards the team salary. I think the only thing he's missing is the Hauser contract.

[Roy H.]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

I did the math myself, using Hoopshype’s numbers:

$131,743,846 (current guarantees)
+ $2,283,034 (Jabari)
+ $1,489,000 (subsidized Kanter)

Total:  $135,515,880

However, I believe I was supposed to use $1,669,000 for Kanter, so add another $180k to my math.

Also, BC is right, there is some amount that will be owed to Houser, depending on what rules the NBA uses.

[Jvalin]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

He's using the 2-year vet minimum which seems the only amount that is counted towards the team salary. I think the only thing he's missing is the Hauser contract.

Agreed.

''Because the NBA doesn’t want teams to avoid signing veteran players in favor of cheaper, younger players, the league reimburses clubs who sign veterans with three or more years of experience to one-year, minimum salary contracts. Those deals will only count against the cap – and against a team’s bank balance – for $1,669,178 , the minimum salary for a player with two years of experience''.

That said, his salary wasn't included in the final figure. Feel free to do the math yourself.

[Roy H.]

I think that my preferred option would be to trade Edwards and Bruno to a team that still has space or an exception. We can send that team more then the combined salaries to cut them for us.

Then, we sign Schroder and Millsap.

[Vermont Green]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

He's using the 2-year vet minimum which seems the only amount that is counted towards the team salary. I think the only thing he's missing is the Hauser contract.

Brown and Smart have incentives also which may or may not come to fruition.  Anyway, the number I get is $137,324,608 which is very close to the number stated above (I suggest using the number above).  This  number includes the "likely" incentives for Brown (65 games played, all star), but not "unlikely" incentives (MVP, All NBA, DPOY).  Smart's incentives relate to body fat (per Spotrac) and are listed as "likely" and included.

Schroder at the Tax Payer MLE makes sense, I think less so at the Non-Tax level, which essentially hard caps up.  I don't think it is worth being hard capped for Schroder.  You don't know what kind of player may be available along the way.  I would hate to lose out on a good PF because the salaries put us $1M or whatever over the hard cap.

And yes, my calc does account for Kanter's reduced cap hit of $1.67M.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

He's using the 2-year vet minimum which seems the only amount that is counted towards the team salary. I think the only thing he's missing is the Hauser contract.

Agreed.

''Because the NBA doesn’t want teams to avoid signing veteran players in favor of cheaper, younger players, the league reimburses clubs who sign veterans with three or more years of experience to one-year, minimum salary contracts. Those deals will only count against the cap – and against a team’s bank balance – for $1,669,178 , the minimum salary for a player with two years of experience''.

That said, his salary wasn't included in the final figure. Feel free to do the math yourself.

The problem is that you're assuming we're not doing the math ourselves... he was just using a lower estimate for Kanter which is in the end not much. The bulk he was missing was the Hauser estimation.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

He's using the 2-year vet minimum which seems the only amount that is counted towards the team salary. I think the only thing he's missing is the Hauser contract.

Brown and Smart have incentives also which may or may not come to fruition.  Anyway, the number I get is $137,324,608 which is very close to the number stated above (I suggest using the number above).  This  number includes the "likely" incentives for Brown (65 games played, all star), but not "unlikely" incentives (MVP, All NBA, DPOY).  Smart's incentives relate to body fat (per Spotrac) and are listed as "likely" and included.

Schroder at the Tax Payer MLE makes sense, I think less so at the Non-Tax level, which essentially hard caps up.  I don't think it is worth being hard capped for Schroder.  You don't know what kind of player may be available along the way.  I would hate to lose out on a good PF because the salaries put us $1M or whatever over the hard cap.

And yes, my calc does account for Kanter's reduced cap hit of $1.67M.

Good point with the likely incentives, those were the numbers I was missing... few places have them, but now I see Spotrac has them so will try to use them more to supplement my calculations. Even so, I use Basketball Insiders a lot, then there's Hoopshype... all have different numbers for some players, we don't know what assumptions they've used with their numbers. Maybe some have already included the likely bonus in their calculations, but they differ in the amount.

What a headache.

[Vermont Green]

The problem is that you're assuming we're not doing the math ourselves... he was just using a lower estimate for Kanter which is in the end not much. The bulk he was missing was the Hauser estimation.

Do 2-way deals count against the cap?  I understood that they don't.  Is it something complicated were if the 2-way player is playing for the NBA team that it counts?

Like a Summer Contract (discussed below), the two-way salary in a Two-Way Contract does not count towards a team’s team salary (so a team does not need to have room or a salary cap exception to sign, acquire, or convert a player to a Two-Way Contract).

[BudweiserCeltic]

The problem is that you're assuming we're not doing the math ourselves... he was just using a lower estimate for Kanter which is in the end not much. The bulk he was missing was the Hauser estimation.

Do 2-way deals count against the cap?  I understood that they don't.  Is it something complicated were if the 2-way player is playing for the NBA team that it counts?

Like a Summer Contract (discussed below), the two-way salary in a Two-Way Contract does not count towards a team’s team salary (so a team does not need to have room or a salary cap exception to sign, acquire, or convert a player to a Two-Way Contract).

Looks like you're correct, removing that from the calculations... but I'm going to stop for now, having different sites using different figures for salaries is not worth the headache LOL.

[Vermont Green]

The problem is that you're assuming we're not doing the math ourselves... he was just using a lower estimate for Kanter which is in the end not much. The bulk he was missing was the Hauser estimation.

Do 2-way deals count against the cap?  I understood that they don't.  Is it something complicated were if the 2-way player is playing for the NBA team that it counts?

Like a Summer Contract (discussed below), the two-way salary in a Two-Way Contract does not count towards a team’s team salary (so a team does not need to have room or a salary cap exception to sign, acquire, or convert a player to a Two-Way Contract).

Looks like you're correct, removing that from the calculations... but I'm going to stop for now, having different sites using different figures for salaries is not worth the headache LOL.

It is very hard to know exact numbers and all the off sets and adjustments.  When my number was within a few $100 of what Jvalin had, I claimed victory and stopped.  This is close enough to at least understand what deals are possible and such.  I try to keep up a spreadsheet but I never get the exact number.  There is always one more little nuance that I am missing.

[Jvalin]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

I did the math myself, using Hoopshype’s numbers:

$131,743,846 (current guarantees)
+ $2,283,034 (Jabari)
+ $1,489,000 (subsidized Kanter)

Total:  $135,515,880

However, I believe I was supposed to use $1,669,000 for Kanter, so add another $180k to my math.

Also, BC is right, there is some amount that will be owed to Houser, depending on what rules the NBA uses.

Come on man, it's simple math.

1. Tatum $28,103,500
2. Horford $27,000,000
3. Brown $26,758,928
4. Smart $ 14,339,285
5. JRich $11,615,328
6. Dunn $5,005,350
7. Romeo $3,804,360
8. Timelord $3,661,976
9. Nesmith $ 3,631,200
10. Grant $2,617,800
11. Jabari $2,283,034
12. Pritchard $2,137,440
13. Edwards $1,782,621
14. Bruno $1,782,621
15. Kanter $1,669,178

Dead salary
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

Total: $137,324,558

Not sure about Hauser's cap hit. I believe it's lower than $100K. Can't find the exact number right now.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

I did the math myself, using Hoopshype’s numbers:

$131,743,846 (current guarantees)
+ $2,283,034 (Jabari)
+ $1,489,000 (subsidized Kanter)

Total:  $135,515,880

However, I believe I was supposed to use $1,669,000 for Kanter, so add another $180k to my math.

Also, BC is right, there is some amount that will be owed to Houser, depending on what rules the NBA uses.

Come on man, it's simple math.

1. Tatum $28,103,500
2. Horford $27,000,000
3. Brown $26,758,928
4. Smart $ 14,339,285
5. JRich $11,615,328
6. Dunn $5,005,350
7. Romeo $3,804,360
8. Timelord $3,661,976
9. Nesmith $ 3,631,200
10. Grant $2,617,800
11. Jabari $2,283,034
12. Pritchard $2,137,440
13. Edwards $1,782,621
14. Bruno $1,782,621
15. Kanter $1,669,178

Dead salary
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

Total: $137,324,558

Not simple math when different sites have different salaries for your players, different assumptions for the likely bonuses, etc.... I'll leave it at that.

[Roy H.]

Using Hoopshype numbers:

Current salary:  $135,515,880 (accounts for Kanter and Parker)
Tax threshold:  $136,606,000
Tax apron: $143,000,000

Room under apron:  Approx $7.48 million

Full MLE:  $9,536,000

So, if those numbers are right we are just about $2 million away. The easiest way to achieve that would be to cut Jabari Parker and his non-guaranteed salary. However, that would seemingly leave a roster hole.

The $135,515,880 number is without Kanter. You can easily verify this by doing the math yourself. If you include Kanter, the new total is $137,324,558. The apron is $143,002,000, hence we are sitting $5,677,442 below the apron. Like you said, the non-taxpayer MLE starts at $9,536,000. Long story short, we'd have to somehow dump at least $3,858,558 in order to finalize the Schroder acquisition. Dunn is the obvious choice. His salary is $5,005,350.

I did the math myself, using Hoopshype’s numbers:

$131,743,846 (current guarantees)
+ $2,283,034 (Jabari)
+ $1,489,000 (subsidized Kanter)

Total:  $135,515,880

However, I believe I was supposed to use $1,669,000 for Kanter, so add another $180k to my math.

Also, BC is right, there is some amount that will be owed to Houser, depending on what rules the NBA uses.

Come on man, it's simple math.

1. Tatum $28,103,500
2. Horford $27,000,000
3. Brown $26,758,928
4. Smart $ 14,339,285
5. JRich $11,615,328
6. Dunn $5,005,350
7. Romeo $3,804,360
8. Timelord $3,661,976
9. Nesmith $ 3,631,200
10. Grant $2,617,800
11. Jabari $2,283,034
12. Pritchard $2,137,440
13. Edwards $1,782,621
14. Bruno $1,782,621
15. Kanter $1,669,178

Dead salary
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

Total: $137,324,558

Not simple math when different sites have different salaries for your players, different assumptions for the likely bonuses, etc.... I'll leave it at that.

Yeah.  I’ve cited where I got the numbers from.  It seems like an absurd thing to argue about.  None of these numbers are official, so I just indicated where the ones I’m using came from.

[tstorey_97]

Thanks to each one of you for sorting this out.

As I have trouble counting above 100, I'll offer the following from another post.

Judge management by it's actions.

The team, supposedly, is talking to a point guard (Schroder) and my thought suggests tha Schroder would be a starting point guard.

They began the off season with Smart and Pritchard at the point. Yes, I'm leaving out the raft of shooting guards and others who don't figure to be in the rotation.

Ok? End of season, Walker gone, we have Smart and Pritchard and none of us are impressed.

Suddenly, Dunn and Richardson are added, they are combos, but are hard nosed defenders. Both could play the point.

Stevens evidently wants a point guard and we are imagining $$ scenarios that bring him here.

Schroder - Pritchard (is Yam going to be here?)
Smart - Richardson - Dunn

Ok, Smart has been offered his extension. In the speculative world, I would suggest they intend to trade Smart and this is why.

They have replaced him with Richardson and Dunn. Right? Understatement of the decade. Smart - Richardson - Dunn are in the most general of ways...the same player and Mr. Smart is about to become wildly expensive standing in the way of assorted soopah stahs to match up with the J's in FA next year.

Is the potential addition of Schroder, Richardson and Dunn the end of Smart or....are we going to swap out Dunn and other assorted odds and ends to beat the accountants?

Dunn - Richardson - Pritchard = $18M
Smart $17M?

Add Schroder and Smart is out.

[Vermont Green]

Thanks to each one of you for sorting this out.

As I have trouble counting above 100, I'll offer the following from another post.

Judge management by it's actions.

The team, supposedly, is talking to a point guard (Schroder) and my thought suggests tha Schroder would be a starting point guard.

They began the off season with Smart and Pritchard at the point. Yes, I'm leaving out the raft of shooting guards and others who don't figure to be in the rotation.

Ok? End of season, Walker gone, we have Smart and Pritchard and none of us are impressed.

Suddenly, Dunn and Richardson are added, they are combos, but are hard nosed defenders. Both could play the point.

Stevens evidently wants a point guard and we are imagining $$ scenarios that bring him here.

Schroder - Pritchard (is Yam going to be here?)
Smart - Richardson - Dunn

Ok, Smart has been offered his extension. In the speculative world, I would suggest they intend to trade Smart and this is why.

They have replaced him with Richardson and Dunn. Right? Understatement of the decade. Smart - Richardson - Dunn are in the most general of ways...the same player and Mr. Smart is about to become wildly expensive standing in the way of assorted soopah stahs to match up with the J's in FA next year.

Is the potential addition of Schroder, Richardson and Dunn the end of Smart or....are we going to swap out Dunn and other assorted odds and ends to beat the accountants?

Dunn - Richardson - Pritchard = $18M
Smart $17M?

Add Schroder and Smart is out.

There is a lot in this post that I don't follow or agree with but I do agree with the bottom line.  It makes no sense to me to bring in Schroder unless we have a plan to trade Smart (hopefully for a good young PF).