Would you make this trade?

[gouki88]

Nah, Wall is a worse shooter and defender than Kemba

Worse shooter, but he’s a much better passer and there’s no way he’s worse defensively. Miami’s offensive strategy against Boston was literally to just go at Kemba on every possession since he couldn’t stop anyone. And it worked... the only other C’s player I’ve seen a team do that to was IT.

I ask you like I've asked others, did you watch Wall play defence this year? Looked terrible immobile and lazy, and his advanced defensive metrics were considerably worse than Kemba's.

Might have been a by-product of playing for a bad team, but either way he was worse defensively in the 20-21 season.

I saw him play quite a bit in the beginning of the season and he didn’t look bad. To be fair he was on the worst team in the NBA, so I’m not surprised if the effort wasn’t there throughout the season.

Wall might not be a great defender, but all the C’s need is for him to be average. I’ve never seen a team go at John on every possession like Miami did with Kemba. Can’t have that.

Fair enough, he probably would be better on this team. That Rockets team was simply woeful.

However, his $45m a year pricetag is scary for me

[Goldstar88]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

[PhoSita]

Wall has even more significant injury concerns than Kemba, he makes more money, and he can't shoot.

Nahhhh

[gouki88]

Wall has even more significant injury concerns than Kemba, he makes more money, and he can't shoot.

Nahhhh

If he's the answer I don't want to know the question.

We should be trying to minimise salary, not adding more

[liam]

Wall has even more significant injury concerns than Kemba, he makes more money, and he can't shoot.

Nahhhh

If he's the answer I don't want to know the question.

We should be trying to minimise salary, not adding more

I think the question was if you could trade anyone for Kemba. I'd rather keep Kemba but there's always a worse contract in the NBA that you can trade a player for.

[Moranis]

As in the threads with proposed trades for the guy got traded for i.e. Westbrook, the question is what assets are coming back with Wall to make it worth Boston's while. 

[nickagneta]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

[gouki88]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

This is essentially the drum I've been beating about Wall. This isn't 2016-17 John Wall we'd be getting

[tenn_smoothie]

I've been thinking about this option too.  Someone stated that Wall and Kemba are the same caliber of defender, and i disagree.  Wall is 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan.  Kemba doesn't come close to this.  When those Wizards teams were in the playoffs Wall was a great perimeter defender. I would miss Kemba's shooting, but I think Wall's defense, passing, and penetration skills would give him the nod.  It would be a gamble, but it's one i would take.

What shooting ?

[Goldstar88]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

Nick... how you going to compare John Wall playing on the dumpster fire known as the Houston Rockets last year to Kemba Walker playing on a Celtics team that has Tatum, Brown and has been to the ECF 2 out of the last 3 years. Come on, man. Let’s look at their entire career.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&player_id2=walljo01

Kemba: 3pt shooting: .360% FG: .419% EFG: .488% FT: .84% Reb: 3.8 Ast: 5.4. TO: 2.2, STL 1.3  PPG: 19.9

Wall: 3pt shooting :    .323% FG: .431% EFG: .462% FT: .79% Reb: 4.3 Ast: 9.1 TO: 3.8, STL: 1.7 PPG 19.1

The difference in shooting percentages is insignificant. Wall is a much better passer, a better rebounder, and not a complete liability on the defensive end like Kemba is. Both players have bad contracts, both are injury prone and with that said, I would take Wall over Kemba every day of the week.

[gouki88]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

Nick... how you going to compare John Wall playing on the dumpster fire known as the Houston Rockets last year to Kemba Walker playing on a Celtics team that has Tatum, Brown and has been to the ECF 2 out of the last 3 years. Come on, man. Let’s look at their entire career.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&player_id2=walljo01

Kemba: 3pt shooting: .360% FG: .419% EFG: .488% FT: .84% Reb: 3.8 Ast: 5.4. TO: 2.2, STL 1.3  PPG: 19.9

Wall: 3pt shooting :    .323% FG: .431% EFG: .462% FT: .79% Reb: 4.3 Ast: 9.1 TO: 3.8, STL: 1.7 PPG 19.1

The difference in shooting percentages is insignificant. Wall is a better passer, better rebounder, and not a complete liability on the defensive end like Kemba is. Both players have bad contracts, both are injury prone. With that said, I would take Wall over Kemba every day of the week.

Are you trying to say that the Celtics were a fun place to be this season??

Career numbers are foolish to use. Wall has suffered injuries which have ended careers before and Kemba developed a chronic knee condition

[Kiorrik]

Kemba: 3pt shooting: .360% FG: .419% EFG: .488% FT: .84% Reb: 3.8 Ast: 5.4. TO: 2.2, STL 1.3  PPG: 19.9

Wall: 3pt shooting :    .323% FG: .431% EFG: .462% FT: .79% Reb: 4.3 Ast: 9.1 TO: 3.8, STL: 1.7 PPG 19.1

Are the stats very different when looking at the last few seasons? I feel like this and last season Kemba was better?

Didn't watch many of Wall's games admittedly.

.edit: and Gouki just made that point as well. My bad!

[Goldstar88]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

Nick... how you going to compare John Wall playing on the dumpster fire known as the Houston Rockets last year to Kemba Walker playing on a Celtics team that has Tatum, Brown and has been to the ECF 2 out of the last 3 years. Come on, man. Let’s look at their entire career.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&player_id2=walljo01

Kemba: 3pt shooting: .360% FG: .419% EFG: .488% FT: .84% Reb: 3.8 Ast: 5.4. TO: 2.2, STL 1.3  PPG: 19.9

Wall: 3pt shooting :    .323% FG: .431% EFG: .462% FT: .79% Reb: 4.3 Ast: 9.1 TO: 3.8, STL: 1.7 PPG 19.1

The difference in shooting percentages is insignificant. Wall is a better passer, better rebounder, and not a complete liability on the defensive end like Kemba is. Both players have bad contracts, both are injury prone. With that said, I would take Wall over Kemba every day of the week.

Are you trying to say that the Celtics were a fun place to be this season??

Career numbers are foolish to use. Wall has suffered injuries which have ended careers before and Kemba developed a chronic knee condition

They didn’t play well this year and I think Kemba was the biggest reason for that.

Yes, I would rather look at their entire careers vs a single season where one player was on a team with 2 all stars and the other was on THE worst team in the NBA.

[Kiorrik]

Lies, danged lies and stats.

[nickagneta]

So just ignore that Wall still is a significantly less efficient scorer, a worse rebounder, only slightly, if slightly better defender but makes $91 million over the next two years to Kemba's $63 million, which could be only $36 million if Kemba opts out of his last year?

Hard pass on Wall.

I wouldn't say Wall is significantly less efficient.  Kemba is a career 42% shooter from the field.  Wall is at like 43%.  Kemba is better from the line, i'll give u that.  As for rebounding, most numbers point to Wall being a better rebounder.  And I would say Wall is a significantly better defender than Walker.  While i think some C's fan underrate Walkers defense, I'd say he's average at best.  Wall is capable of all-defensive team level defense.

The money isn't quite that different.  Kemba is gonna make 73 over the next 2 years, not 63.  And sure, Kemba could opt out, but so could Wall.  So that's a wash.

Let’s not leave out the passing skill. Wall is a career 9.1 assist per game player. As a comparison, CP3 Is 9.4 apg, Westbrook 8.4apg, Lillard 6.6apg, and Harden 6.5apg for career averages. I think many are under appreciating how elite his  passing ability is.

Now give him 2 all stars in Brown and Tatum, an above average shooter with Fournier and a sky Walker in Timelord. Think he would do quite well. Add D’Antoni as the coach... Tell me that isn’t intriguing.

Let's discussed what they were both like this year and use some advanced stats that put things on an even comparison.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Kemba shot better from every level and the TS%, the best indicator of scoring efficiency, shows Kemba as significantly better. 5% points is a ton

Then take a look at the Rebounding percentage. Kemba, though shorter and less long is much better. Sure, Wall generates more assists but he also is dominating the ball more(something fans hate in Kemba) and turning the ball over more. Much more. Like it's not close.

I'm sorry but offensively, if you let Smart dominate the ball that much and shoot that much, he probably generates more points and as many assists as Wall. Only Smart would still be a top 15-20 defender in the league.

Everything with Wall's offense and basically his whole game, is based on how much he does it, not how well he does it.

If you don't like Kemba or Smart, you're going to despise Wall if he comes here and plays like he does.

Nick... how you going to compare John Wall playing on the dumpster fire known as the Houston Rockets last year to Kemba Walker playing on a Celtics team that has Tatum, Brown and has been to the ECF 2 out of the last 3 years. Come on, man. Let’s look at their entire career.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=walkeke02&player_id2=walljo01

Kemba: 3pt shooting: .360% FG: .419% EFG: .488% FT: .84% Reb: 3.8 Ast: 5.4. TO: 2.2, STL 1.3  PPG: 19.9

Wall: 3pt shooting :    .323% FG: .431% EFG: .462% FT: .79% Reb: 4.3 Ast: 9.1 TO: 3.8, STL: 1.7 PPG 19.1

The difference in shooting percentages is insignificant. Wall is a better passer, better rebounder, and not a complete liability on the defensive end like Kemba is. Both players have bad contracts, both are injury prone and with that said, I would take Wall over Kemba every day of the week.

Looking at their entire career ignores what they are now. It also ignores that his game was almost as bad his last year in Washington.

How many years does he get excused for being bad because he is on a bad team? He has been constantly injured over the last four seasons which is only helping to fuel his decline. Looking at his whole career ignores that since getting injured he has not been the same player as before the injury.

He is a volume scorer that is worse than Smart offensively.

People complain about Kemba's dominating the ball, poor shooting, bad defense, albatross contract, injury history and decline in game because of injury and yet Wall is worse than Kemba in all those areas where Kemba is so bad in that he needs to be traded.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

Wall has played in 113 of the last 308 games and those injuries have curtailed his athleticism, which his whole game is built on. And he still thinks and plays like a #1 option. I have more faith that Kemba can adjust his game and take on a tertiary role offensively than I do Wall.