Grading Danny's deadline-day moves

[RJ87]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

[Rondo9]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Seessh ease off with the insults.

[hwangjini_1]

Trade #1:  A-

Trade #2:  D

I just don’t see the point of the second trade.

a fuller answer appears in the thread dedicated to this trade. it was about money and getting under the tax.

add in that Theis' contract was up and he would be pricier to resign than the celtics wanted to pay.

so, for a few months of Theis and some flotsom and jettison the celtcs got Fournier, a couple of easily disposable bigs in case a good buy-out player appears, and stay under the tax.

i gave it a B.

Ryan Bernardoni AC⚡️AB
@dangercart
Post-Fournier, pre-Theis, the Celtics were $1.6M above the tax w/ pending $150k bonuses for Fournier if they make the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs. Post-Theis, they're $920k under, even if they make the ECF

[Celtics2021]

It depends on the buy out market. I don't think deep playoff as of now is the goal. But I could see DA bringing back IT and making a move for Cousins. It could be a great redemption story or a fire dumpster waiting to happen. But it would be entertaining either way. 😆

Danny has never been high on the buyout market, certainly not as high as most fans are. Here's what he has said about it in the past:

“Just because guys are available on the buyout market and there’s people that average points, it doesn’t mean it makes your team better.

“We’ve been through this many, many years, and I think that often times the buyout market and the names on the back of the jerseys are people hoping — and fans and coaches — that we’re getting a player of a year or two or three years before, and we’re not getting what we really need, which is defensive presence, guys that know our system and guys that know what we are."

https://nesn.com/2020/02/will-celtics-sign-anyone-on-nba-buyout-market-danny-ainge-explains/

While true, the Theis trade was made to create a buyout opportunity.  Moving just Green and Teague would have brought the team below the tax.  Theis for Wagner and Kornett moved them enough below the tax so that they can afford a buyout.  So presumably there is a player or two he sees hitting the market that he has interest in, otherwise you have to think that Theis who knows the system would be superior to Wagner who doesn’t.

[RJ87]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Seessh ease off with the insults.

Where did I insult him?

[PhoSita]

In terms of getting value for this season:

A

In terms of big picture:

C


If they end up moving Kemba and Thompson without giving up significant assets this summer and then are able to re-sign Fournier, this looks a lot better all around. 

But if they can't move Kemba, they're pretty much right up against the luxury tax before adding anyone, and Fournier leaves (or gets turned into another freaking TPE), then I will view this as a very silly set of moves.

[Neurotic Guy]

I'm terrible at grading, but I think Fournier is very good get so I give it a B+ -- provides an upgrade to the bench and 3-point shooting.   Gave up nothing really and there is talk that the C's will be in the running to resign him -- it's possible that there was some discussion about that before the deal was made. 

The 2nd trade created some room (as I understand it) to sign a buyout candidate and so this is a wait and see.  Additional benefit of this trade is paving the way for Rob to start -- or at least get more minutes.   This is a pretty big plus that would not have occurred if Theis remained here.  So the rotation dynamics changes significantly and I think to the longer term benefit of the Celtics -- especially as Danny looks to build the 2021-22 edition.   

I also like that the C's retained their 2021 1st round pick which, depending on where it winds up, provides a trade asset to combine with the remaining TPE or becomes another young player in what many are considering a strong draft.

[Moranis]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

[Rondo9]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Seessh ease off with the insults.

Where did I insult him?

Implying that he's taking some drug or something as a way to escape. You don't like the trade that's fine but for crying out loud STOP dragging others.

[footey]

I give an A- 

We get a really good shooter wing for our bench.

We get a young stretch center who has a lot of energy and will be good complement to Rob. Theis was a good soldier but he seemed to be slowing up, wearing out. It was time to move on from him. Rob should become our starting center.

We keep all our young assets. Guys like Nesmith and Langford should get more minutes to develop. I think by next season we will be thankful we held onto them.

We keep Smart.

[aingeforthree]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Adding him definitely helps. As would a healthy Kemba, Smart, and Langford.

We won 11 games out of 30 in crunch time. I can’t help thinking we win 8-10 more of those if health weren’t a factor. We’re right there. Beat Covid, get healthy, and now add Fournier to that bench.

[Neurotic Guy]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

I feel like it's been a few years that many here have been talking about strengthening 3-point shooting and the bench and nothing's happened.  Now we get someone who can fill a bench/shooter role and the commentary from you and some others is that this can be easily found.  I'm not convinced that is true.  BTW -- I think there is a chance Danny expects to resign Fournier.   

[RJ87]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Adding him definitely helps. As would a healthy Kemba, Smart, and [I can't even here, lol - rj].

We won 11 games out of 30 in crunch time. I can’t help thinking we win 8-10 more of those if health weren’t a factor. We’re right there. Beat Covid, get healthy, and now add Fournier to that bench.

I disagree that the problems with this team are that simple. For one, our defense just isn't what has been during Brad's earlier years. Bringing in Fournier doesn't really help that at all and losing Theis will hurt more than some may believe especially with our switch heave scheme. If this team is going to turn it around in a sustainable way, our defense has to be far more consistent.

[Roy H.]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

Easily?  I think he's 49th in scoring right now, and 23rd in 3PTM per game.  For a league with 150 starters and 450+ players, I think that that makes him more than an easily replaceable role player.

EDIT:  Only nine players in the NBA score at least 19.5 points, make 2.75 3PTs, and shoot 38.5% 3PT%.  Eight other than Fournier. 

[aingeforthree]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

I feel like it's been a few years that many here have been talking about strengthening 3-point shooting and the bench and nothing's happened.  Now we get someone who can fill a bench/shooter role and the commentary from you and some others is that this can be easily found.  I'm not convinced that is true.  BTW -- I think there is a chance Danny expects to resign Fournier.

I agree. Most on here were clamoring for guys like Lou Williams off the bench just a couple years ago. Well, we got something similar. I’m happy. Great move. Fournier has never had this type of talent around him. He’s going to be free and open a lot with this squad.

I think a lot happens between now and the start of next season. Another big trade could happen in the summer that opens up the salary cap even more.