Grading Danny's deadline-day moves

[PAOBoston]

Overall I think it was a good day. Fournier is a good piece and I think they plan to keep him past this season. He adds some much needed wing help. He’s a good 3 pt shooter and has some experience with ball handling as well. He’s not an all star but he’s a good player and will help improve the middle class of this team. And for what they had to give up, it was a no brainer.

Losing Theis stings a little. He was a good soldier for this team and a great find by Ainge and the scouting department. Don’t think I have anything bad to say about Theis. Played hard, got the most of his ability (and then some), and seemed like a good representative for the franchise. He’s vastly outperformed his contract and will get a nice MLE type deal (if not more) this offseason. I hope now that he is in Chicago that the War on Theis ends.

I guess to truly grade this deadline it will depend on what they do with but out guys as well. If they can add like an Otto Porter and someone that can help bolster the roster, I think Ainge did a good job overall.

[aingeforthree]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Adding him definitely helps. As would a healthy Kemba, Smart, and [I can't even here, lol - rj].

We won 11 games out of 30 in crunch time. I can’t help thinking we win 8-10 more of those if health weren’t a factor. We’re right there. Beat Covid, get healthy, and now add Fournier to that bench.

I disagree that the problems with this team are that simple. For one, our defense just isn't what has been during Brad's earlier years. Bringing in Fournier doesn't really help that at all and losing Theis will hurt more than some may believe especially with our switch heave scheme. If this team is going to turn it around in a sustainable way, our defense has to be far more consistent.

I see where you’re coming from RJ. Btw, I didn’t take your post as a dig. We’re all Celtic fans here. We all want to win and know we can be better.

I think you’re right about defense. We gotta step that up. I think we can, even without Theis. I don’t see why we can’t be what we were just a year ago. I feel Covid and the injury’s hurt this season. Hurt us bad.

We need to somehow overcome it and quick. Adding Fournier helps IMO. It’s another piece we needed around our studs. Great fit and gave up nothing for it. That’s an A or B grade

[Donoghus]

Is Ainge on 98.5 this week?  I'm really interested to hear about what went do with this Chicago trade.

[fmbl24]

Is Ainge on 98.5 this week?  I'm really interested to hear about what went do with this Chicago trade.

Toucher and Rich tomorrow morning

[JBcat]

I give it a solid B.

Fournier is a real nice recovery from losing Hayward.  Their advanced stats seem very similar for this season with Hayward only having a clear advantage in rebounding. Plus Evan is 2 years younger, and if we are able to re-sign him on a deal less than what Hayward is making that will be huge.

Losing Theis sucks but we are moving to 1 big lineups so someone had to be the odd man out, and in all honesty his D seemed to take a step back. Between Wagner and Theis their advanced stats actually seemed very similar with a slight edge to Theis.  Wagner seems like he could be a better passer, and we need all the passing we can get with our offense.  The Celts get to look at him closely to see if he is worse keeping, but either way the chances were slim Theis would be on our team next year with a bigger contract.

[RJ87]

I'm on the fence between a C- and D+.

Danny gets points for effort because I truly expected him to do nothing as he's done in the past during the deadline. But as I said in another thread, the moves themselves feel like we're rearranging the deck chairs, but the deck still has dry-rot.

Danny claimed he wouldn't spend the TPE on an expiring deal that was a bandaid, and then does exactly that. Are we paying Fournier this summer? Because the team followed up bringing him in with salary shedding moves which means the marching orders from ownership is to stay out of the tax.

We still have a bunch of young guys on the roster that won't offer much. Nesmith gets further pushed down the depth chart with Fournier coming in this season. So what are we doing? Are we rebuilding around the Jays? Are we trying to compete? Neither of these moves clarified anything. We still have no identity as an organization or as a team.

You didn’t give up anything worth merit for Fournier. This helps us this year big time. Get our players healthy, grab another buyout candidate, and let’s win some games. We’re right there.

I still think the biggest decision is in the summer. I personally think he trades Jaylen Brown at some point. But for what ? I don’t think two ball stoppers like Tatum/Brown works. You have to move one IMO

Right where? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

We're currently 2 games below .500 and a half game from dropping to 9th place. Our defense is the wrost it's been in years and we're more than halfway through the season. We are what we are: a play-in team. If you think adding Fournier gets this team in the tier of Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, I'm begging you to share what you're sipping because I need the escape.

Adding him definitely helps. As would a healthy Kemba, Smart, and [I can't even here, lol - rj].

We won 11 games out of 30 in crunch time. I can’t help thinking we win 8-10 more of those if health weren’t a factor. We’re right there. Beat Covid, get healthy, and now add Fournier to that bench.

I disagree that the problems with this team are that simple. For one, our defense just isn't what has been during Brad's earlier years. Bringing in Fournier doesn't really help that at all and losing Theis will hurt more than some may believe especially with our switch heave scheme. If this team is going to turn it around in a sustainable way, our defense has to be far more consistent.

I see where you’re coming from RJ. Btw, I didn’t take your post as a dig. We’re all Celtic fans here. We all want to win and know we can be better.

I think you’re right about defense. We gotta step that up. I think we can, even without Theis. I don’t see why we can’t be what we were just a year ago. I feel Covid and the injury’s hurt this season. Hurt us bad.

We need to somehow overcome it and quick. Adding Fournier helps IMO. It’s another piece we needed around our studs. Great fit and gave up nothing for it. That’s an A or B grade

TP.

Well one thing is for sure, we're about to get all the Rob Williams we can handle. In a weird way, I think he's the guy to this team taking a step back into contention. Not necessarily this season, but we need to continue maturing because he can be the answer to a lot of this team's issues.

[Atzar]

Somewhere in the B range. 

Fournier is a good pickup at very low cost.  And while it’s a bummer to lose Theis and I have little interest in either of the players we got in return for him, I do understand the financial necessity.  Clearing the way for Rob Williams is a silver lining.

We still aren’t relevant in the east this season, but we’re better than we were this morning.

[tonydelk]

None of Philly, Brooklyn or Milwaukee got better today.  The Cs did.  Not enough to completely close the gap but better then they were yesterday.  So I give this an A.  It also frees up a roster spot for a buyout and not having to resign theis and not paying the tax this year should allow them to sign Fournier if both parties want.

[liam]

None of Philly, Brooklyn or Milwaukee got better today.  The Cs did.  Not enough to completely close the gap but better then they were yesterday.  So I give this an A.  It also frees up a roster spot for a buyout and not having to resign theis and not paying the tax this year should allow them to sign Fournier if both parties want.

Celtics really needed shooting and they got it.

[RJ87]

None of Philly, Brooklyn or Milwaukee got better today.  The Cs did.  Not enough to completely close the gap but better then they were yesterday.  So I give this an A.  It also frees up a roster spot for a buyout and not having to resign theis and not paying the tax this year should allow them to sign Fournier if both parties want.

Philly didn't get Lowry, but that George Hill trade was a sneaky good pick up.

[Moranis]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

Easily?  I think he's 49th in scoring right now, and 23rd in 3PTM per game.  For a league with 150 starters and 450+ players, I think that that makes him more than an easily replaceable role player.

EDIT:  Only nine players in the NBA score at least 19.5 points, make 2.75 3PTs, and shoot 38.5% 3PT%.  Eight other than Fournier.

if he comes anywhere near averaging that here then my grade will change because it means he is clearly better than I think he is, but I suspect he is no where near that type of player here given what his role is going to be

[Moranis]

None of Philly, Brooklyn or Milwaukee got better today.  The Cs did.  Not enough to completely close the gap but better then they were yesterday.  So I give this an A.  It also frees up a roster spot for a buyout and not having to resign theis and not paying the tax this year should allow them to sign Fournier if both parties want.

Philly didn't get Lowry, but that George Hill trade was a sneaky good pick up.

and Milwaukee added Tucker and Brooklyn added Griffin.  Minor moves sure, but those teams are significantly better to start with

[Celtics2021]

I voted C+, but I'm intrigued to see how many minutes Wagner gets.  We really need some energy on the floor at times, and Wagner is full of energy.  Some of his advanced metrics are superior to all of our bigs.  If Wagner is a solid rotational guy who offers equivalent value as Theis, then this trade grades a lot better, since he should be more affordable this summer.

[liam]

I voted C+, but I'm intrigued to see how many minutes Wagner gets.  We really need some energy on the floor at times, and Wagner is full of energy.  Some of his advanced metrics are superior to all of our bigs.  If Wagner is a solid rotational guy who offers equivalent value as Theis, then this trade grades a lot better, since he should be more affordable this summer.

Wagner dishes it out and Theis takes it. Theis is the better player but refs hate him. Theis gets a beating every game. Wagner is an instigator.

[Roy H.]

Boston is not any closer to a title this year and didn't get any players that could reasonably contribute in 2-3 years when Tatum and Brown are truly ready.

We're "closer", but we're certainly not a top-tier team.

But, what makes you think that Fournier can't contribute in 2-3 years?

He is a role player.  Boston can easily find a player of his caliber. So yeah he will still be able to play a role but it is a role that can easily be found.  It isn't a move that does anything to change the long term prospects which is what I was trying to say but probably didn't say very well

Easily?  I think he's 49th in scoring right now, and 23rd in 3PTM per game.  For a league with 150 starters and 450+ players, I think that that makes him more than an easily replaceable role player.

EDIT:  Only nine players in the NBA score at least 19.5 points, make 2.75 3PTs, and shoot 38.5% 3PT%.  Eight other than Fournier.

if he comes anywhere near averaging that here then my grade will change because it means he is clearly better than I think he is, but I suspect he is no where near that type of player here given what his role is going to be

Well, he's going from a second option to a 3B option, so the stats themselves will no doubt change.  Similar to how Gordon Hayward went from a 21 point score to a 17.5 point scorer his last year here.  But, the skill set to put up those numbers -- and very efficiently -- is there.