How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?

[wdleehi]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think you would have to offer more for Collins

Plus what good with the full TPE be for the Celtics this offseason?   With Collins having to be resigned, could they use all of it?

[Moranis]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

[PAOBoston]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think you would have to offer more for Collins

Plus what good with the full TPE be for the Celtics this offseason?   With Collins having to be resigned, could they use all of it?

Any deal for Collins would likely have to include Smart as well as some combo of Langford/Nesmith/Timelord and picks. Unless there’s some sort of three team deal that makes sense.

[colincb]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

[footey]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

That's a great move for SAC. They get younger, and Huerter is a really good replacement for Barnes.

[td450]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding
 the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

Collins is very talented, but the only reason he may be available is Atlanta knows he is going to be difficult to make happy. He wants a ton of money and I assume he also wants the team status necessary to become a bigger star.That will be even more difficult for the C's than it would be for the Hawks.

To make it worse by bringing in another quality player who would erode his minutes and shots even further makes zero sense.

[Moranis]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding
 the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

Collins is very talented, but the only reason he may be available is Atlanta knows he is going to be difficult to make happy. He wants a ton of money and I assume he also wants the team status necessary to become a bigger star.That will be even more difficult for the C's than it would be for the Hawks.

To make it worse by bringing in another quality player who would erode his minutes and shots even further makes zero sense.

Barnes isn't going to really eat up anything for Collins and I'd absolutely pay Collins and I think Ainge would as well.  Collins is the perfect compliment to Tatum and Brown long term while Barnes and Walker are solid stop gap options. 

[colincb]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

That's a great move for SAC. They get younger, and Huerter is a really good replacement for Barnes.

Barnes is a much better player than Huerter and he's only 28.

https://stathead.com/tiny/uvg5u

TS% of  64% vs 53%, PER 17.2 vs 12.1.

[dannyboy35]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding
 the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

Collins is very talented, but the only reason he may be available is Atlanta knows he is going to be difficult to make happy. He wants a ton of money and I assume he also wants the team status necessary to become a bigger star.That will be even more difficult for the C's than it would be for the Hawks.

To make it worse by bringing in another quality player who would erode his minutes and shots even further makes zero sense.

Barnes isn't going to really eat up anything for Collins and I'd absolutely pay Collins and I think Ainge would as well.  Collins is the perfect compliment to Tatum and Brown long term while Barnes and Walker are solid stop gap options.

  I really agree with you from a hoop standpoint. If we were forced to could we give him the max or do we then she’d Kemba or smart? I would also do this if that’s what we have to as long as Collins is happy in that role. It SEEMS like he would really fit. 

[dannyboy35]

Oh my bad.

[Moranis]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

That's a great move for SAC. They get younger, and Huerter is a really good replacement for Barnes.

Barnes is a much better player than Huerter and he's only 28.

https://stathead.com/tiny/uvg5u

TS% of  64% vs 53%, PER 17.2 vs 12.1.

Barnes makes 60 million or so over the next 3 years and will be 31 when his contract ends.  The Kings aren't very good and getting 2 young players still on their rookie contracts and an expiring contract from a decent veteran is in fact a good trade for them.  Saves them a ton of money and they could still use Snell in a trade if they wanted to help a team do a salary dump for other assets.

[Roy H.]

Let’s say Sactown asks for Smart as part of any deal.  Is that prohibitive?

[td450]

Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.

I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

That's a great move for SAC. They get younger, and Huerter is a really good replacement for Barnes.

Barnes is a much better player than Huerter and he's only 28.

https://stathead.com/tiny/uvg5u

TS% of  64% vs 53%, PER 17.2 vs 12.1.

Barnes makes 60 million or so over the next 3 years and will be 31 when his contract ends.  The Kings aren't very good and getting 2 young players still on their rookie contracts and an expiring contract from a decent veteran is in fact a good trade for them.  Saves them a ton of money and they could still use Snell in a trade if they wanted to help a team do a salary dump for other assets.

Except they haven't got a payroll problem at all, and if they want to shed salary, Parker and Bjelica cost just under $14M and are in their final contract year. Cory Joseph makes $12.6M through next year and they don't need him either. Get rid of them and the money is in all the right places.

Harrison Barnes is a mature guy who isn't a bargain, but mostly earns his money. If they had a young star behind him, I could see it but they've got no one who qualifies as a larger wing and until they can convince someone better to play there it makes no sense to go backwards just to have the lowest payroll in the league. They need a considerably better reason than just salary.

The real issue is whether they want to keep Buddy Hield, who makes $2M more than Barnes. Halliburton is going to be a better player. Neither guy is strong enough to be a full time small forward. They would be better off getting rid of Hield.

[Vermont Green]

Let’s say Sactown asks for Smart as part of any deal.  Is that prohibitive?

It would be for me if the return was just Barnes.  Could start to expand the trade to more players so maybe there is a combination but I don't feel it is worth it for Barnes.

[Atzar]

Let’s say Sactown asks for Smart as part of any deal.  Is that prohibitive?

IMO yes, right now. 

My willingness to trade Smart hinges on Langford, actually.  If he returns and demonstrates the ability to be a disruptive defender with some secondary playmaking (and can stay on the court), then I would be willing to move on Smart.  But this probably happens in the offseason at the earliest.

Until then, I'm only moving Smart if it's for somebody we can project to be an important long-term piece.  Somebody like Collins would fit, if we could reach an understanding with him on role and contract terms.  I feel like Barnes falls short of that benchmark though.