NBA Playoffs 2019-2020

[KGs Knee]

In my opinion, those types of narratives are used mostly to belittle/discredit a player's or team's accomplishments and it's always felt like a little bit of sour grapes to me.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. It also manifests itself in a sort of jilted lover type of reaction towards players and coaches that leave for greener pastures.

These narratives just don't mean squat to me, because quite frankly, far more often than not they are created by biased fans with an agenda. If that is how some fans want to act, that's their business, I suppose. I just laugh at them.

[Redz]

I hate the Lakers as much or more than anyone, but you can't discredit them.  They did what none of the other "contenders" could do.  They got there.  If Lebron and Davis went down, I'd say the same about the Heat.  You win 16 games against whoever you're matched up against and you've earned a title.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

That's my point though. Every championship run has it's own narrative. You can go doing through the past and ascribe one to any trophy but in the grand scheme, a championship is a championship. Those narratives don't really matter.

You can always try to argue that one story of a title run is more compelling than another.  You can make your argument that the 2012 one is more meaningful than the 2013 one.

To me, apart from reacting emotionally in the moment, talking and arguing about those narratives is what being a fan is about.


Narrative is the main thing that matters.


Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree, I think. 


A title run that ends with a competitive series against a quality opponent has more weight and meaning, to me, especially if the players on the winning team had to go through adversity and struggle together on that team in order to reach that point.


A bunch of guys coming together via trade or free agency to play for a new team and then rolling to a title without ever really being in danger of elimination ... that's not a compelling story, to me.


Imagine if the Celtics in 2008 had never faced LeBron or the Pistons, they lost a total of 4 games, and the Finals win had come against, say, Chris Paul's young Hornets team.  I don't think that would be nearly as remarkable to look back on.  Sure, a title is a title.  Especially given the 20+ year drought, any title in 2008 would have been sweet.  But it was that much sweeter because of the teams they vanquished to get there, especially beating Kobe's Lakers at the end of it.


That Raptors title last year is a much better story because of their struggles earlier in the decade against LeBron and because Kyle Lowry, who was the face of those teams that struggled, was still on the team as a major contributor when they finally won it all.


I can't convince you of any of this, because it's subjective. But I believe most people care about narrative a lot more than you're suggesting.

Yeah, I do think we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, those types of narratives are used mostly to belittle/discredit a player's or team's accomplishments and it's always felt like a little bit of sour grapes to me. I'm not going to take away from GSW's success over the past few years because they were "stacked". That disregards the team building and player development they put into that team. The Lakers came into the bubble this year under the same circumstances other playoff teams did, those other squads couldn't take advantage of the opportunity. Doesn't result in an asterisk for me.

If it was the Celtics 3 wins away from a title, a narrative would mean diddly squat to me. I'd only care about banner 18.

Being sour toward another team's success—especially if that team is your hated rival—is part of the fan experience.

[PhoSita]

Being sour toward another team's success—especially if that team is your hated rival—is part of the fan experience.

Not to mention that differentiating between teams, strategies, outcomes, the way a series or a season unfolds ... why are we all here talking about this sport if not to do that?


This is like arguing about the meaning of MVP.

There's no way to argue over who "won" MVP in any given season.  But we can always argue about what the MVP award means. 


The only thing a title means from a concrete perspective is that the team won 4 best of 7 playoff series in a row. 

Any meaning you place on it, including what it suggests about the team or the players involved, whether it means that team was the best team in the league that year, or anything else -- all comes from you.

That also includes, by the way, caring about whether your team won a title.  Why does winning a title matter?  The only way to answer that is to provide an explanation of what it means to win a title.  That's inherently subjective.

[Ogaju]

I hate the Lakers as much or more than anyone, but you can't discredit them.  They did what none of the other "contenders" could do.  They got there.  If Lebron and Davis went down, I'd say the same about the Heat.  You win 16 games against whoever you're matched up against and you've earned a title.

This

[footey]

Dragic and Bam listed as doubtful for game 2.

This series should be over quick.

[hpantazo]

Dragic and Bam listed as doubtful for game 2.

This series should be over quick.

These Finals should be titled 'let's give Bron the [dang] trophy and get the heck outta the bubble!'

[PhoSita]

Dragic and Bam listed as doubtful for game 2.

This series should be over quick.

These Finals should be titled 'let's give Bron the [dang] trophy and get the heck outta the bubble!'

The nba survivor trophy.

In a sense, they were all on an island this whole time

[SparzWizard]

Lakers and Dodgers could both be bringing championships to Los Angeles in October.

What a travesty.

[Birdman]

Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

[RJ87]

In my opinion, those types of narratives are used mostly to belittle/discredit a player's or team's accomplishments and it's always felt like a little bit of sour grapes to me.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. It also manifests itself in a sort of jilted lover type of reaction towards players and coaches that leave for greener pastures.

These narratives just don't mean squat to me, because quite frankly, far more often than not they are created by biased fans with an agenda. If that is how some fans want to act, that's their business, I suppose. I just laugh at them.

Why does winning a title matter?  The only way to answer that is to provide an explanation of what it means to win a title.  That's inherently subjective.

Because that's the goal of the sport: a championship. Do you run a race for the experience or do you run the race to win it?

Being sour toward another team's success—especially if that team is your hated rival—is part of the fan experience.

Oh, it'll suck to see the Lakers win and tie us in banners. But that doesn't change the fact they'll be champions. People will try to whine and complain that they didn't have enough competition in the playoffs, but neglect to mention that's the benefit of being a #1 seed in the regular season - they played the same teams that we & everyone else played. They just took care of business.

Part of the game is free agency and trades, the Lakers saw an opportunity to go all in and it's looks like they're not going to fumble it away.

[jambr380]

Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?

[Donoghus]

Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?

I think its a combo of a lot of things.  You can't just point at BLM and go, that's the cause. 

There's pretty much generally apathy towards all sports right now with Covid.  Pretty much every sports' ratings are down right now.  Stanley Cup Finals were dreadful.  MLB playoffs haven't been good.   Derby, US Open, & Indy 500 were all down.

We're just living in a really weird time right now.  Prioritizations have changed.

[footey]

Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?

I think its a combo of a lot of things.  You can't just point at BLM and go, that's the cause. 

There's pretty much generally apathy towards all sports right now with Covid.  Pretty much every sports' ratings are down right now.  Stanley Cup Finals were dreadful.  MLB playoffs haven't been good.   Derby, US Open, & Indy 500 were all down.

We're just living in a really weird time right now.  Prioritizations have changed.

While you may be right, I suspect it was a big factor contributing to the decline in viewership. Anecdotally, I play hoops with a couple of guys in their early 20’s, die hard NBA fans, who said they stopped watching because of all the BLM messages, which they interpreted as anti-police. Another friend of mine, long time Celtic fan, said he couldn’t stomach the political messaging, and said he was done. Not statistical evidence I grant you.

Given the lack of sports, I would have thought the viewship would have gone off the charts. Look at the rating on the Last Dance. Country was hungry for sports.

[KGs Knee]

There's a lot of reasons, I suspect, for the lower viewership numbers, but one I haven't seen mentioned here yet is illegal streaming. I think that is playing a much larger role than people realize. I'd be surprised if there is a way to accurately assess just how many people watch via this method.