Author Topic: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches  (Read 4062 times)

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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2020, 07:54:20 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2020, 08:13:09 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth

I'm hoping that something  more substantive comes out of this.

For ME - the existence of this article means there's a problem.
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Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2020, 08:22:24 PM »

Online Amonkey

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I am on the belief that where there’s smoke, there’s fire and considering that it seems the NFL wants to force this thing, there must be something that they’re trying to fix. After all, this is the league that has dealt with Kapernick in bad faith (although I don’t necessarily agree with Kaps approach anyway).

However, to give a team a competitive advantage for this I think is the wrong way to do it. I think it would be more beneficial to incentivize owners where they care the most, with $. What if there’s a program that can educate and help minorities coaches grow where all the owners have to invest in, and the owner that hires a minority coach gets a write off or some kind of money back, that could help teams hire as well as build strong candidates in the future.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2020, 08:36:07 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth

I'm hoping that something  more substantive comes out of this.

For ME - the existence of this article means there's a problem.

Im not trying to come off as ignorant in this thread, even though Im sure to some I have.  At the end of the day, Im not saying more minority coaches dont need to be given opportunities to coach and GM in the NFL.  Im saying there are a lot more factors at play here than just 'people refuse to hire minority coaches and theyre being held back' and this rule proposal makes it seem as clear cut as 'just these racist owners just wont hire a minority'.   I would hope though that we can all agree that this rule proposal is completely ridiculous no matter what side youre on (if you dont believe me, there already articles out saying this rule could actually lead to less minority coaches being hired).

I know we can agree on one thing though......Go Skins :)


as for the part I bolded above.  Thats a dangerous way to form your opinions.
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2020, 09:15:29 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth

I'm hoping that something  more substantive comes out of this.

For ME - the existence of this article means there's a problem.

Im not trying to come off as ignorant in this thread, even though Im sure to some I have.  At the end of the day, Im not saying more minority coaches dont need to be given opportunities to coach and GM in the NFL.  Im saying there are a lot more factors at play here than just 'people refuse to hire minority coaches and theyre being held back' and this rule proposal makes it seem as clear cut as 'just these racist owners just wont hire a minority'.   I would hope though that we can all agree that this rule proposal is completely ridiculous no matter what side youre on (if you dont believe me, there already articles out saying this rule could actually lead to less minority coaches being hired).

I know we can agree on one thing though......Go Skins :)


as for the part I bolded above.  Thats a dangerous way to form your opinions.

I have no issues with you or anyone else here, Greg.

And YES - the article...the proposal - in itself - is extreme, it appears. I can see where folks would get upset with it...I get it.

But I remember Steven A Smith has been beating these war drums the last few years - with his most recent comments about this being even more vivid.

And we ALL KNOW that Steven A does "vivid" very well. But he's right a good amount of the time and he was right here.

He is no agitator...he deals out enough fair criticism when players / superstars get in trouble as well.

At the end of the day I'd hope and expect that this proposal gets ratcheted down...things de-escalate...and owners / teams can make good faith efforts to improve conditions.
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2020, 03:57:37 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth

I'm hoping that something  more substantive comes out of this.

For ME - the existence of this article means there's a problem.

Im not trying to come off as ignorant in this thread, even though Im sure to some I have.  At the end of the day, Im not saying more minority coaches dont need to be given opportunities to coach and GM in the NFL.  Im saying there are a lot more factors at play here than just 'people refuse to hire minority coaches and theyre being held back' and this rule proposal makes it seem as clear cut as 'just these racist owners just wont hire a minority'.   I would hope though that we can all agree that this rule proposal is completely ridiculous no matter what side youre on (if you dont believe me, there already articles out saying this rule could actually lead to less minority coaches being hired).

I know we can agree on one thing though......Go Skins :)


as for the part I bolded above.  Thats a dangerous way to form your opinions.

Here's the problem with this rule and it's the same things that happens in the private sector when affirmative action was instituted. The obvious reaction that white men with all the power have when they feel that power is threatened is to push back and say "on principal, on protest we won't hire any people of color, qualified or not" --which perpetuates the same situation as before. And every old predictable, timeless rebuttal is trotted out.

"You won't be taken seriously because you didn't earn it"
"you're penalizing us because we like who we like"
"communism"
"you're not the boss of me!! I do what I want!!"
"I love black people. I employ lots of them. And my sister's best friend's former roommate was black so...yeah."

and let's not forget my all time favorite...

"I don't see color."
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2020, 11:45:02 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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God help us - the insanity and obsession regarding race in this country knows no bounds.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2020, 12:00:39 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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God help us - the insanity and obsession regarding race in this country knows no bounds.

For some crazy reason when I saw this post I immediately thought of the Billy Joel classic:

"We didn't start the Fire."
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2020, 09:33:44 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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This is all about a team getting a better 3rd round pick?

I don't think this will be an effective policy but if considered in context, the idea that the NFL wants to promote diversity within league and team management is something any business can decide to do and for a number of different reasons.

One reality is that the league's players are majority African American.  Relations with those employees is important to the success and sustainability of the league.  If the league feels that they will be better off for having more diversity, this shouldn't just be written off as petty discrimination.  It may be about optics, or it may be that the league owners really feel that better diversity will be good for the league.

If there was something more to this than shuffling 3rd round picks, maybe it would be worth getting worked up about.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2020, 02:42:43 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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NFL discriminates against the hiring of blacks for decades, no one says boo.

NFL simply proposes something to remedy that decades long discrimination, not enact, just propose, and it's labeled discrimination against white people and suddenly people are up in arms about it.

NFL is composed of 68% blacks, according to a 2014 survey. There are 2 black head coaches and 6 black GMs in the NFL. That's 12.5% of the 64 positions going to blacks in a league made up of 68% black players.

That said, something needs to be done about it but this sure isn't it.

I find this proposal to be insulting. Not to white people but black people. You hired a black coach, or GM, or both, so because you hired a black person, you get a competitive advantage for a year because.....why?

Is it because the white people in the NFL who were discriminating against blacks for decades, who are the ones coming up with this proposal, feel if you are hiring a black person that you are hiring an inferior candidate, so you need a competitive advantage, even if just for a year? Sure could be looked at in that vein.

There are better ways to get qualified blacks into the positions they should be in but this, this is not one of them. The NFL has to do more to get more blacks into those positions as I refuse to believe that there aren't a bunch of extremely qualified black people that could be holding those positions.

Well stated, nick.  You pretty much captured my thoughts on this as well.   

Yes, the NFL definitely has a racial disparity problem between management and the players.  No, this particular proposal does not sound like a good way to address it.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2020, 03:04:20 PM »

Online Moranis

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NFL discriminates against the hiring of blacks for decades, no one says boo.

NFL simply proposes something to remedy that decades long discrimination, not enact, just propose, and it's labeled discrimination against white people and suddenly people are up in arms about it.

NFL is composed of 68% blacks, according to a 2014 survey. There are 2 black head coaches and 6 black GMs in the NFL. That's 12.5% of the 64 positions going to blacks in a league made up of 68% black players.

That said, something needs to be done about it but this sure isn't it.

I find this proposal to be insulting. Not to white people but black people. You hired a black coach, or GM, or both, so because you hired a black person, you get a competitive advantage for a year because.....why?

Is it because the white people in the NFL who were discriminating against blacks for decades, who are the ones coming up with this proposal, feel if you are hiring a black person that you are hiring an inferior candidate, so you need a competitive advantage, even if just for a year? Sure could be looked at in that vein.

There are better ways to get qualified blacks into the positions they should be in but this, this is not one of them. The NFL has to do more to get more blacks into those positions as I refuse to believe that there aren't a bunch of extremely qualified black people that could be holding those positions.

Well stated, nick.  You pretty much captured my thoughts on this as well.   

Yes, the NFL definitely has a racial disparity problem between management and the players.  No, this particular proposal does not sound like a good way to address it.
Not that many NFL coaches even played in the league though.  I mean the entire current list is Vrabel, Reich, Rivera, Marrone, Lynn, Pederson, and Kingsbury.  So 7 of the 32 coaches, and let's be clear only the 1st 3 had any real success.  I just don't think NFL players want to be coaches.  Of the other 25 coaches, like 3 played in other pro-leagues and less than 5 total even played at a major university in college.  The reality is football players that reach the pinnacle of the sport rarely have the desire to coach, so I'm not sure you can put much stock in the player makeup vs. coaching makeup.  That isn't to say the league shouldn't do better, it should, but I just don't say well because the players are 70% black, 70% of the coaches should be.  That just doesn't make sense to me.  Now if the players want to coach and aren't given the same opportunities, that is a problem, I just have no idea if that is the case.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2020, 04:18:18 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we’re trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I’m not saying the NFL doesn’t have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires

Sure, plenty of info can be dropped in their ears.  Do you think minority former players are being denied jobs as assistants, position coaches and coordinators??  The two hottest coaching candidates that teams were gonna be after this off-season were minorities!  and former players!  there are plenty of former players that are assistant coaches and coordinators and also team executives.  Sean McVay was a very young hire for a head coach but he still spent years as a position coach and a coordinator.


and OF COURSE Roger Goodell signed off on this, the league has been in a PR nightmare since all the National Anthem stuff, can you imagine the response if he didnt sign off??  Whenever youre under the scrutiny of the public eye, perception means just as much, if not MORE than truth

I'm hoping that something  more substantive comes out of this.

For ME - the existence of this article means there's a problem.

Im not trying to come off as ignorant in this thread, even though Im sure to some I have.  At the end of the day, Im not saying more minority coaches dont need to be given opportunities to coach and GM in the NFL.  Im saying there are a lot more factors at play here than just 'people refuse to hire minority coaches and theyre being held back' and this rule proposal makes it seem as clear cut as 'just these racist owners just wont hire a minority'.   I would hope though that we can all agree that this rule proposal is completely ridiculous no matter what side youre on (if you dont believe me, there already articles out saying this rule could actually lead to less minority coaches being hired).

I know we can agree on one thing though......Go Skins :)


as for the part I bolded above.  Thats a dangerous way to form your opinions.

Here's the problem with this rule and it's the same things that happens in the private sector when affirmative action was instituted. The obvious reaction that white men with all the power have when they feel that power is threatened is to push back and say "on principal, on protest we won't hire any people of color, qualified or not" --which perpetuates the same situation as before. And every old predictable, timeless rebuttal is trotted out.

"You won't be taken seriously because you didn't earn it"
"you're penalizing us because we like who we like"
"communism"
"you're not the boss of me!! I do what I want!!"
"I love black people. I employ lots of them. And my sister's best friend's former roommate was black so...yeah."

and let's not forget my all time favorite...

"I don't see color."

well thats not what i was referencing when I mentioned that people are already saying this rule could lead to less minority coaches being hired.

"If a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere, his former club would receive a fifth-round compensatory pick. And if a person of color leaves to become a head coach or general manager, his previous team would receive a third-round compensatory pick."

https://www.nfl.com/news/owners-to-vote-on-resolution-to-incentivize-minority-hc-gm-hires

Quoted above is what Im talking regarding this could lead to less minority coaches being hired.

Think about it, if youre the Redskins, would you sign a minority coach to a contract that currently works on the Cowboys, or any other division rival, if you know youre going to have to be giving your competitor a 3rd round pick?  If Im the Redskins and Im loooking at two very qualified coaches, one is a minority defensive coordinator on the philadelphia eagles and the other is a white offensive coordinator on the LA Rams, I would have to believe a major factor in the decision is that hiring one of these wont give your rival a compensatory pick.
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2020, 05:42:01 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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NFL discriminates against the hiring of blacks for decades, no one says boo.

NFL simply proposes something to remedy that decades long discrimination, not enact, just propose, and it's labeled discrimination against white people and suddenly people are up in arms about it.

NFL is composed of 68% blacks, according to a 2014 survey. There are 2 black head coaches and 6 black GMs in the NFL. That's 12.5% of the 64 positions going to blacks in a league made up of 68% black players.

That said, something needs to be done about it but this sure isn't it.

I find this proposal to be insulting. Not to white people but black people. You hired a black coach, or GM, or both, so because you hired a black person, you get a competitive advantage for a year because.....why?

Is it because the white people in the NFL who were discriminating against blacks for decades, who are the ones coming up with this proposal, feel if you are hiring a black person that you are hiring an inferior candidate, so you need a competitive advantage, even if just for a year? Sure could be looked at in that vein.

There are better ways to get qualified blacks into the positions they should be in but this, this is not one of them. The NFL has to do more to get more blacks into those positions as I refuse to believe that there aren't a bunch of extremely qualified black people that could be holding those positions.

Well stated, nick.  You pretty much captured my thoughts on this as well.   

Yes, the NFL definitely has a racial disparity problem between management and the players.  No, this particular proposal does not sound like a good way to address it.
Not that many NFL coaches even played in the league though.  I mean the entire current list is Vrabel, Reich, Rivera, Marrone, Lynn, Pederson, and Kingsbury.  So 7 of the 32 coaches, and let's be clear only the 1st 3 had any real success.  I just don't think NFL players want to be coaches.  Of the other 25 coaches, like 3 played in other pro-leagues and less than 5 total even played at a major university in college.  The reality is football players that reach the pinnacle of the sport rarely have the desire to coach, so I'm not sure you can put much stock in the player makeup vs. coaching makeup.  That isn't to say the league shouldn't do better, it should, but I just don't say well because the players are 70% black, 70% of the coaches should be.  That just doesn't make sense to me.  Now if the players want to coach and aren't given the same opportunities, that is a problem, I just have no idea if that is the case.

Well, all that is saying that the background pool from which coaching candidates are drawn from includes a large pool of people who never played in the NFL and so shouldn't necessarily be expected to mirror the racial makeup of NFL players, which is reasonable. 

 ... but I suspect that pool (I suspect it is largely former college players, college assistants & coaches, etc., who didn't play in the NFL) also has a pretty different racial makeup compared to the coaching & management tiers of the NFL.

Last I heard, some 46-47% percent of NCAA football bowl subdivision players are black.


NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2020, 05:58:34 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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I don't think this is a good idea.

The amount of people extremely concerned with it's possible application could probably be used as a metric for how large of an issue it seeks to address is though.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2020, 07:32:33 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Dave Cowens
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NFL discriminates against the hiring of blacks for decades, no one says boo.

NFL simply proposes something to remedy that decades long discrimination, not enact, just propose, and it's labeled discrimination against white people and suddenly people are up in arms about it.

NFL is composed of 68% blacks, according to a 2014 survey. There are 2 black head coaches and 6 black GMs in the NFL. That's 12.5% of the 64 positions going to blacks in a league made up of 68% black players.

That said, something needs to be done about it but this sure isn't it.

I find this proposal to be insulting. Not to white people but black people. You hired a black coach, or GM, or both, so because you hired a black person, you get a competitive advantage for a year because.....why?

Is it because the white people in the NFL who were discriminating against blacks for decades, who are the ones coming up with this proposal, feel if you are hiring a black person that you are hiring an inferior candidate, so you need a competitive advantage, even if just for a year? Sure could be looked at in that vein.

There are better ways to get qualified blacks into the positions they should be in but this, this is not one of them. The NFL has to do more to get more blacks into those positions as I refuse to believe that there aren't a bunch of extremely qualified black people that could be holding those positions.

Well stated, nick.  You pretty much captured my thoughts on this as well.   

Yes, the NFL definitely has a racial disparity problem between management and the players.  No, this particular proposal does not sound like a good way to address it.
Not that many NFL coaches even played in the league though.  I mean the entire current list is Vrabel, Reich, Rivera, Marrone, Lynn, Pederson, and Kingsbury.  So 7 of the 32 coaches, and let's be clear only the 1st 3 had any real success.  I just don't think NFL players want to be coaches.  Of the other 25 coaches, like 3 played in other pro-leagues and less than 5 total even played at a major university in college.  The reality is football players that reach the pinnacle of the sport rarely have the desire to coach, so I'm not sure you can put much stock in the player makeup vs. coaching makeup.  That isn't to say the league shouldn't do better, it should, but I just don't say well because the players are 70% black, 70% of the coaches should be.  That just doesn't make sense to me.  Now if the players want to coach and aren't given the same opportunities, that is a problem, I just have no idea if that is the case.

Well, all that is saying that the background pool from which coaching candidates are drawn from includes a large pool of people who never played in the NFL and so shouldn't necessarily be expected to mirror the racial makeup of NFL players, which is reasonable. 

 ... but I suspect that pool (I suspect it is largely former college players, college assistants & coaches, etc., who didn't play in the NFL) also has a pretty different racial makeup compared to the coaching & management tiers of the NFL.

Last I heard, some 46-47% percent of NCAA football bowl subdivision players are black.
Sure, but a lot of coaches never played in the bowl subdivision.  I mean look at Bill, he played at Wesleyan.  And that sort of school isn't that uncommon for NFL head coaches.  Coaching in the NFL just strikes me as different than coaching in the NBA.  Very few people seem to have the skill or makeup to do it and the very best tend to be mediocre, at best, football players. 
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty