Author Topic: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches  (Read 4096 times)

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Offline Roy H.

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The NFL is considering improving draft picks for teams that hire minority candidates as head coaches or general managers, sources confirmed to ESPN.

Under the proposal, aimed at fixing diversity problems leaguewide, a team could improve its third-round draft selection by up to 16 picks -- going up 10 spots for hiring a minority candidate as general manager or an equivalent-level position and six spots for hiring a minority head coach.

NFL.com first reported on the proposal, which was submitted by the league's diversity committee and is expected to be addressed during Tuesday's virtual meeting with team owners, a league source confirmed. The proposal would need 24 of 32 votes in favor to pass.

Under this plan, a team could move up five spots in the fourth round if a minority head coach or general manager successfully entered the third year on the job, according to the report. Retaining a minority quarterbacks coach after one year would net a fourth-round compensatory pick, a nod to the importance of quarterback expertise to the head-coaching pipeline, according to the report.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 06:28:41 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Silly and unnecessary.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 06:50:58 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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What’s even more lame is that it penalizes teams that have stable coaching situations and don’t need to hire a new coach.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2020, 07:27:49 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.
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Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2020, 07:46:26 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 07:57:41 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2020, 08:10:18 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here’s the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they’ll hire whoever helps them win.


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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 08:31:47 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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The NFL is a "plantation league" and it's pretty sad that a polarizing move like this has to be considered to get more representation in the coaching ranks. White men have been loathed to relinquish any positions of authority to African-Americans in this sport (people of color don't have the intelligence to QB, stick to running).  Any position that requires displaying a higher level of intellect, analysis and authority, people of color can't be trusted.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2020, 08:34:26 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Yeah, this totally wouldn’t backfire and lead to tokenism... ::)

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2020, 08:36:06 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here’s the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they’ll hire whoever helps them win.

The issue I have with your plan, Roy, is that in the event there are MORE than 3 qualified Black coaches (or GMs) out there that are being passed over for whatever reason then there should not be an arbitrary "Societal Cap" placed on them.

If qualifications dictate that there should be 7 more qualified Black coaches coaching (or GM'ing) then they should have that opportunity.

The other thing here is that by not giving Black coaches OPPORTUNITY then how will they learn?

Is there an NBA-like plan in place to mitigate the lack of opportunity?

I really don't believe that the NFL woke up this morning and came up with this plan....it has apparently been festering for a while.
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 06:42:15 AM »

Offline action781

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Wins generated by clear #1 choice of coach vs. clear #2 choice of coach/GM.
Wins generated by pick 3.1 vs. 3.16 in the draft.

My guess is that the choice of coach/GM impacts winning a lot more than the improvement in third round pick.  I don't see any NFL teams choosing a clearly less preferred coach only so they can get a better 3rd draft pick one year.  It just won't translate to winning as much as the better coach/GM would.  I see this as being an incentive for a team considering two equally qualified coaches to choose the minority candidate.  It will probably lead to 1-2 more qualified minority head coaches/GMs being hired instead of a coin-toss white candidate over a few year time span.  I don't see this as a bad thing.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2020, 08:41:35 AM »

Offline greg683x

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here’s the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they’ll hire whoever helps them win.

The issue I have with your plan, Roy, is that in the event there are MORE than 3 qualified Black coaches (or GMs) out there that are being passed over for whatever reason then there should not be an arbitrary "Societal Cap" placed on them.

If qualifications dictate that there should be 7 more qualified Black coaches coaching (or GM'ing) then they should have that opportunity.

The other thing here is that by not giving Black coaches OPPORTUNITY then how will they learn?

Is there an NBA-like plan in place to mitigate the lack of opportunity?

I really don't believe that the NFL woke up this morning and came up with this plan....it has apparently been festering for a while.

What if qualifications dictate that there shouldn’t be more than 3 on a given year?  The opposite can be true as well.  So if that’s the case is there gonna be a huge uproar if less than three are hired or retain their jobs?  I bet their would be.

Who sets the bar on what qualifications would necessitate a hire?  Are we going to start limiting who teams can hire to a head coaching pool? 

Trying to control issues like this with stats and numbers is ludicrous if you ask me, it brings about an endless rabbit hole of issues
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2020, 09:17:04 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here’s the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they’ll hire whoever helps them win.

The issue I have with your plan, Roy, is that in the event there are MORE than 3 qualified Black coaches (or GMs) out there that are being passed over for whatever reason then there should not be an arbitrary "Societal Cap" placed on them.

If qualifications dictate that there should be 7 more qualified Black coaches coaching (or GM'ing) then they should have that opportunity.

The other thing here is that by not giving Black coaches OPPORTUNITY then how will they learn?

Is there an NBA-like plan in place to mitigate the lack of opportunity?

I really don't believe that the NFL woke up this morning and came up with this plan....it has apparently been festering for a while.

What if qualifications dictate that there shouldn’t be more than 3 on a given year?  The opposite can be true as well.  So if that’s the case is there gonna be a huge uproar if less than three are hired or retain their jobs?  I bet their would be.

Who sets the bar on what qualifications would necessitate a hire?  Are we going to start limiting who teams can hire to a head coaching pool? 

Trying to control issues like this with stats and numbers is ludicrous if you ask me, it brings about an endless rabbit hole of issues

Opportunity and Privilege....somethings that I think we've taken a step BACK in society over the last 3-4 years....and perhaps longer in the NFL.

It'd appear that the NFL has chosen NOT to pipeline minority candidates...grow them...so they could one day be successful coaches or GMs.....OR they DID and for whatever God knows reason they got passed over.

There could very well be a list of candidates out there already that have been passed over...like I've said in this thread already the NFL has NOT just come up with this overnight....the issue has apparently been festering for some time.

For ME this is quite clear....the NFL has NOT had NEARLY the same success with minority coaches OR GMs as the NBA has....how long are we going to wait for one of "America's favorite pastimes" to catch up?

I mean - there COULD be a thing where minority coaches or GMs may NOT want to coach or GM....is this true? I'd think not.

Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2020, 09:51:53 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2020, 10:02:51 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team’s draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here’s the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they’ll hire whoever helps them win.

The issue I have with your plan, Roy, is that in the event there are MORE than 3 qualified Black coaches (or GMs) out there that are being passed over for whatever reason then there should not be an arbitrary "Societal Cap" placed on them.

If qualifications dictate that there should be 7 more qualified Black coaches coaching (or GM'ing) then they should have that opportunity.

The other thing here is that by not giving Black coaches OPPORTUNITY then how will they learn?

Is there an NBA-like plan in place to mitigate the lack of opportunity?

I really don't believe that the NFL woke up this morning and came up with this plan....it has apparently been festering for a while.

What if qualifications dictate that there shouldn’t be more than 3 on a given year?  The opposite can be true as well.  So if that’s the case is there gonna be a huge uproar if less than three are hired or retain their jobs?  I bet their would be.

Who sets the bar on what qualifications would necessitate a hire?  Are we going to start limiting who teams can hire to a head coaching pool? 

Trying to control issues like this with stats and numbers is ludicrous if you ask me, it brings about an endless rabbit hole of issues

Opportunity and Privilege....somethings that I think we've taken a step BACK in society over the last 3-4 years....and perhaps longer in the NFL.

It'd appear that the NFL has chosen NOT to pipeline minority candidates...grow them...so they could one day be successful coaches or GMs.....OR they DID and for whatever God knows reason they got passed over.

There could very well be a list of candidates out there already that have been passed over...like I've said in this thread already the NFL has NOT just come up with this overnight....the issue has apparently been festering for some time.

For ME this is quite clear....the NFL has NOT had NEARLY the same success with minority coaches OR GMs as the NBA has....how long are we going to wait for one of "America's favorite pastimes" to catch up?

I mean - there COULD be a thing where minority coaches or GMs may NOT want to coach or GM....is this true? I'd think not.

They really haven't. And the reason is pretty simple:

The NFL doesn't want people of color in positions of authority. 3 black HCs, 2 black GMs, 2 owners that are of color. The problem with the tokenism argument is that it precludes the possibility that people of color would even be worthy of consideration. They are passed over so casually in favor of "white candidate of choice" to even give them an interview comes off like affirmative action. This will be polarizing if it passes because all it will do is reveal people's inherent prejudices and biases even further.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...