Author Topic: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches  (Read 4060 times)

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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2020, 10:14:30 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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What's sad is that the NFL evidently believes that qualified and experienced people are being passed over.

If this is truly the case then I applaud this decision.

How many persons like this are in actual pipelines for coaching or GM'ing?

I've been hearing / reading for several years how the NFL is lagging behind in this.

The other side of the coin is that white coaches that are qualified and can win should not be passed over, either.

This is a fine line to walk....care needs to be applied here. But if this is the course the NFL believes needs to be taken then I support it.

I think that this policy promotes tokenism, and will foster a mindset that people are not being hired due to qualifications, but rather to manipulate a team痴 draft pick situation. It is insulting that you qualified candidates who earned their spots.

I

I'd suppose a list of folks passed over should be made public.

On the deck plates I'd assume that there is knowledge of some solid individuals that are being passed over - hence the seemingly extreme nature of this plan.

Off the top of my head - our own Bill Russell broke MANY barriers...Kareem did as well.

Is there ONE Black player in the NFL like Russell or Kareem? Granted Kareem did not coach but he was right there with Bill in promoting change.

For those that disagree with this plan from the NFL - what other course of action should they take to promote change?

Outside of Tomlin in Pittsburgh and a few others....how many Black coaches have received opportunities? How many GMs?

I think that there are three African-American coaches in the NFL. Whether that is representative depends on how you view representation.  Based upon percentage of the population, three out of 32 coaches being black is about right.  White coaches are represented too heavily, and Hispanic coaches are underrepresented.  But, it is within reasonable margins, I suppose.

At the same time, if representation should reflect the sport itself, then there should obviously be many more black coaches.

Here痴 the thing, though. I doubt that there is one single owner in the NFL who discriminates based upon race.  The NFL is concerned with winning, and I suspect they値l hire whoever helps them win.

The issue I have with your plan, Roy, is that in the event there are MORE than 3 qualified Black coaches (or GMs) out there that are being passed over for whatever reason then there should not be an arbitrary "Societal Cap" placed on them.

If qualifications dictate that there should be 7 more qualified Black coaches coaching (or GM'ing) then they should have that opportunity.

The other thing here is that by not giving Black coaches OPPORTUNITY then how will they learn?

Is there an NBA-like plan in place to mitigate the lack of opportunity?

I really don't believe that the NFL woke up this morning and came up with this plan....it has apparently been festering for a while.

What if qualifications dictate that there shouldn稚 be more than 3 on a given year?  The opposite can be true as well.  So if that痴 the case is there gonna be a huge uproar if less than three are hired or retain their jobs?  I bet their would be.

Who sets the bar on what qualifications would necessitate a hire?  Are we going to start limiting who teams can hire to a head coaching pool? 

Trying to control issues like this with stats and numbers is ludicrous if you ask me, it brings about an endless rabbit hole of issues

Opportunity and Privilege....somethings that I think we've taken a step BACK in society over the last 3-4 years....and perhaps longer in the NFL.

It'd appear that the NFL has chosen NOT to pipeline minority candidates...grow them...so they could one day be successful coaches or GMs.....OR they DID and for whatever God knows reason they got passed over.

There could very well be a list of candidates out there already that have been passed over...like I've said in this thread already the NFL has NOT just come up with this overnight....the issue has apparently been festering for some time.

For ME this is quite clear....the NFL has NOT had NEARLY the same success with minority coaches OR GMs as the NBA has....how long are we going to wait for one of "America's favorite pastimes" to catch up?

I mean - there COULD be a thing where minority coaches or GMs may NOT want to coach or GM....is this true? I'd think not.

They really haven't. And the reason is pretty simple:

The NFL doesn't want people of color in positions of authority. 3 black HCs, 2 black GMs, 2 owners that are of color. The problem with the tokenism argument is that it precludes the possibility that people of color would even be worthy of consideration. They are passed over so casually in favor of "white candidate of choice" to even give them an interview comes off like affirmative action. This will be polarizing if it passes because all it will do is reveal people's inherent prejudices and biases even further.

My Friend - Society cannot get any FURTHER polarized, if you ask me.

We are already THERE.

If some of these teams need a jolt to get them to give opportunities to the James Jones' of the NFL then so be it.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2020, 10:15:32 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I知 a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he壇 have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he値l have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I知 only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I知 not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2020, 10:30:19 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I’m a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he’d have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he’ll have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I’m only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I’m not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job

I've heard the same refrain about Doug...not sure if that's the entire story but I've heard similar rumblings...

On the same token we cannot use him as an example to NOT actively seek out quality and bright minority candidates. They are out there.

How many are there besides Ozzie? The reverse side of the coin here is that we parade around the "Few talented and Bright Ozzie Newsomes and Mike Tomlins" and then sit back, pat each other on the back and say...

"Gee folks we made it"........

No we haven't and I think we are backsliding as a society over the last few years.
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2020, 10:39:42 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Well, the NFL is free to do as they wish, I suppose.  I can't say I think this proposal is a good idea, or something I agree with, though.  Attempting to remedy discrimination with incentivized discrimination is not exactly noble nor wise.  Bitterness and resentment is all that will lead to.  The rule, as proposed, is also highly likely to lead to gainful manipulation of the rule in manners that go against the spirit of the rule.

It's also not at all clear qualified minority candidates are actually being passed over for lesser qualified white men.  NFL teams are in the business of winning.  It doesn't serve the ends of their business for teams to pass on more qualified candidates in favor of lesser qualified candidates simply because of race.  There have been and are successful minority GMs and coaches.

But I'm not sure this proposal has much chance of being approved.  Getting a majority of owners to agree to this proposal as it is written seems unlikely.  I wouldn't be surprised to see something in this vein ultimately passed, but the draft compensation portion of it is almost assuredly going to be scrapped.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2020, 10:46:15 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I知 a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he壇 have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he値l have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I知 only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I知 not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job

I've heard the same refrain about Doug...not sure if that's the entire story but I've heard similar rumblings...

On the same token we cannot use him as an example to NOT actively seek out quality and bright minority candidates. They are out there.

How many are there besides Ozzie? The reverse side of the coin here is that we parade around the "Few talented and Bright Ozzie Newsomes and Mike Tomlins" and then sit back, pat each other on the back and say...

"Gee folks we made it"........

No we haven't and I think we are backsliding as a society over the last few years.

not saying youre wrong but its just as foolish to think rules like this will fix the problem.  There are better ways to encourage the hiring of fresh faces in the league than reverse discrimination
Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2020, 11:41:28 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I知 a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he壇 have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he値l have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I知 only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I知 not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job

I've heard the same refrain about Doug...not sure if that's the entire story but I've heard similar rumblings...

On the same token we cannot use him as an example to NOT actively seek out quality and bright minority candidates. They are out there.

How many are there besides Ozzie? The reverse side of the coin here is that we parade around the "Few talented and Bright Ozzie Newsomes and Mike Tomlins" and then sit back, pat each other on the back and say...

"Gee folks we made it"........

No we haven't and I think we are backsliding as a society over the last few years.

not saying youre wrong but its just as foolish to think rules like this will fix the problem.  There are better ways to encourage the hiring of fresh faces in the league than reverse discrimination

Are there better ways? I've already asked in the thread for folks to come up with a better way........

I don't call it Reverse Discrimination, myself....

I'd like to call it Forced Equality......a "More Perfect Union"......

For ME - to simply say that Ozzie Newsome...Doug Williams...Ron Rivera...Mike Tomlin...are it?

They cannot be.
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2020, 12:19:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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NFL discriminates against the hiring of blacks for decades, no one says boo.

NFL simply proposes something to remedy that decades long discrimination, not enact, just propose, and it's labeled discrimination against white people and suddenly people are up in arms about it.

NFL is composed of 68% blacks, according to a 2014 survey. There are 2 black head coaches and 6 black GMs in the NFL. That's 12.5% of the 64 positions going to blacks in a league made up of 68% black players.

That said, something needs to be done about it but this sure isn't it.

I find this proposal to be insulting. Not to white people but black people. You hired a black coach, or GM, or both, so because you hired a black person, you get a competitive advantage for a year because.....why?

Is it because the white people in the NFL who were discriminating against blacks for decades, who are the ones coming up with this proposal, feel if you are hiring a black person that you are hiring an inferior candidate, so you need a competitive advantage, even if just for a year? Sure could be looked at in that vein.

There are better ways to get qualified blacks into the positions they should be in but this, this is not one of them. The NFL has to do more to get more blacks into those positions as I refuse to believe that there aren't a bunch of extremely qualified black people that could be holding those positions.


Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2020, 12:25:14 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I知 a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he壇 have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he値l have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I知 only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I知 not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job

I've heard the same refrain about Doug...not sure if that's the entire story but I've heard similar rumblings...

On the same token we cannot use him as an example to NOT actively seek out quality and bright minority candidates. They are out there.

How many are there besides Ozzie? The reverse side of the coin here is that we parade around the "Few talented and Bright Ozzie Newsomes and Mike Tomlins" and then sit back, pat each other on the back and say...

"Gee folks we made it"........

No we haven't and I think we are backsliding as a society over the last few years.

not saying youre wrong but its just as foolish to think rules like this will fix the problem.  There are better ways to encourage the hiring of fresh faces in the league than reverse discrimination

Are there better ways? I've already asked in the thread for folks to come up with a better way........

I don't call it Reverse Discrimination, myself....

I'd like to call it Forced Equality......a "More Perfect Union"......

For ME - to simply say that Ozzie Newsome...Doug Williams...Ron Rivera...Mike Tomlin...are it?

They cannot be.

Forced equality? Sounds like communism to me.  You can change the name for it all you want, but if a team chooses to hire a head coach because hes latino/black/asian over a white coach because he gets a prize, thats called discrimination against both the white coach and the minority coach

there are better ways.

How about making owners actually live up to the contracts that they sign GMs and coaches too, and also making the minimum contract you can give a coach a 3 or 5 year deal.

If a GM signs a 5 year contract KNOWING hes going to be the GM of that team for 5 years and not fired after 1 bad season, then maybe he'll be open to hiring a promising young coach who may not have proven himself yet, and not some guy hes familiar and comfortable with and has a track record and a system he feels good about.   If he knows he can afford to make a mistake and have a chance to rectify it, he might be willing to take more risks with personel.

How about after a coach or coordinator has been fire more than 3 times he cant be hired again?  Sounds extreme, but it would force teams to find new coaches to hire instead of us watching Jim Haslett get fired as defensive coordinator for 873 times

The problem is the league it too cut throat. "Forced equality" sounds great until youre the person that loses their job after one season because the team owner is too impatient and doesnt buy into your philosophy anymore.

Would their be loopholes with these rules?  Sure!  But theres MANY loopholes with the rules youre supporting and at least these dont feature reverse discrimination and leave a coach or GM feeling he only got hired because of his skin color and a higher draft pick. 

This is just a more extreme version of the Rooney rule and all that did was complicate Dennis Greens schedule.

Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2020, 12:52:19 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Quote
The NFL is considering improving draft picks for teams that hire minority candidates as head coaches or general managers, sources confirmed to ESPN.

Under the proposal, aimed at fixing diversity problems leaguewide, a team could improve its third-round draft selection by up to 16 picks -- going up 10 spots for hiring a minority candidate as general manager or an equivalent-level position and six spots for hiring a minority head coach.

NFL.com first reported on the proposal, which was submitted by the league's diversity committee and is expected to be addressed during Tuesday's virtual meeting with team owners, a league source confirmed. The proposal would need 24 of 32 votes in favor to pass.

Under this plan, a team could move up five spots in the fourth round if a minority head coach or general manager successfully entered the third year on the job, according to the report. Retaining a minority quarterbacks coach after one year would net a fourth-round compensatory pick, a nod to the importance of quarterback expertise to the head-coaching pipeline, according to the report.
Roy, your thread title was truncated somehow. It cut off the part that says...

"so as to attempt to overcome existing structures and practices that discriminate against people of color, as can be evidenced by decades of hiring that privileged white men."
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2020, 01:22:34 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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So why does the NFL like to hire white coaches more

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2020, 01:31:15 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Look, I could be wrong with this comparison but if I am? Prove it...



The SAME player that our Celtic Legend Kevin Garnett dunked on in that near-miraculous Eastern Conf Finals series against MIA (James Jones) - is NOW the GM of the up-and-coming PHX Suns...



James was what? At most an 8th or 9th option on those Heat teams...a three point specialist? But obviously VERY bright and was able to get an OPPORTUNITY to GM (not even COACH) an up and coming PHX Suns team?

Why can't this stuff happen in the NFL? You telling me these college-educated bright young men can't do what James Jones did?

To quote my man Vince:



LOOK - I know there are a FEW exceptions..I look at my own Washington Redskins and they just snagged Ron Rivera from Carolina...we ALSO have Doug Williams up in the front office.

But again - you're telling me there are no James Jones out there in the NFL?

I知 a redskins fan too and I love Doug Williams but he is a perfect example of what setting rules like this will become

The redskins have labled Doug Williams senior president of player personal but it became a running joke in the media around here in the DC area that whenever you asked Doug about players the skins were drafting or scouting he壇 have a very clueless or uninformed response.  There were times the media would mention a report to him and you could tell this was the first he was hearing about it and would always defer to Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

All this rule is going to do is give a team like the Patriots, a team where Belicheck for the most part makes most of the personal decisions an opportunity to hire a minority executive, slap the GM label on him, but he値l have almost no say in personal decisions But the Patriots will receive higher draft picks because of it.

I知 only using the Patriots as an example because they seem to find every loophole in the rule book and exploit it (kudos to them)

I知 not understanding the James Jones comparison.  There are black GMs in the NFL, quite successful long tenured ones, Ozzie Newsome has been the GM in Baltimore for an enternity and he does a great job

I've heard the same refrain about Doug...not sure if that's the entire story but I've heard similar rumblings...

On the same token we cannot use him as an example to NOT actively seek out quality and bright minority candidates. They are out there.

How many are there besides Ozzie? The reverse side of the coin here is that we parade around the "Few talented and Bright Ozzie Newsomes and Mike Tomlins" and then sit back, pat each other on the back and say...

"Gee folks we made it"........

No we haven't and I think we are backsliding as a society over the last few years.

not saying youre wrong but its just as foolish to think rules like this will fix the problem.  There are better ways to encourage the hiring of fresh faces in the league than reverse discrimination

Are there better ways? I've already asked in the thread for folks to come up with a better way........

I don't call it Reverse Discrimination, myself....

I'd like to call it Forced Equality......a "More Perfect Union"......

For ME - to simply say that Ozzie Newsome...Doug Williams...Ron Rivera...Mike Tomlin...are it?

They cannot be.

Forced equality? Sounds like communism to me.  You can change the name for it all you want, but if a team chooses to hire a head coach because hes latino/black/asian over a white coach because he gets a prize, thats called discrimination against both the white coach and the minority coach

there are better ways.

How about making owners actually live up to the contracts that they sign GMs and coaches too, and also making the minimum contract you can give a coach a 3 or 5 year deal.

If a GM signs a 5 year contract KNOWING hes going to be the GM of that team for 5 years and not fired after 1 bad season, then maybe he'll be open to hiring a promising young coach who may not have proven himself yet, and not some guy hes familiar and comfortable with and has a track record and a system he feels good about.   If he knows he can afford to make a mistake and have a chance to rectify it, he might be willing to take more risks with personel.

How about after a coach or coordinator has been fire more than 3 times he cant be hired again?  Sounds extreme, but it would force teams to find new coaches to hire instead of us watching Jim Haslett get fired as defensive coordinator for 873 times

The problem is the league it too cut throat. "Forced equality" sounds great until youre the person that loses their job after one season because the team owner is too impatient and doesnt buy into your philosophy anymore.

Would their be loopholes with these rules?  Sure!  But theres MANY loopholes with the rules youre supporting and at least these dont feature reverse discrimination and leave a coach or GM feeling he only got hired because of his skin color and a higher draft pick. 

This is just a more extreme version of the Rooney rule and all that did was complicate Dennis Greens schedule.

To ME - it isn't "Forced" if that candidate is already qualified and just needs a CHANCE....

I think some of us here are thinking that we're hiring some unqualified person of color to a coach or GM position and that's not it....

Again - if the NFL has gotten to THIS point then it MUST be an issue...this didn't come about overnight.

People are TIRED...I know "I" am.....I'm tired of thinking my sons could be the next Arbery.

I'm tired of wanting to see more qualified people of color get opportunity.

I'm tired of seeing folks in the White House that have ZERO business there.

I'm tired of a LOT of stuff nowadays.
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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2020, 02:24:38 PM »

Online Donoghus

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It's a ridiculously stupid move by the NFL. 

Really shows how pathetic the NFL is on some levels that they're considering resorting to dangling this carrot to teams to incentivize hiring minority candidates.  Yes, the NFL has a serious problem when it comes to the skew in demographics at the head coach & front office level but this is not the way to do it.  Bribing teams isn't the way to do it.


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Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2020, 06:42:38 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2020, 07:10:33 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we池e trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I知 not saying the NFL doesn稚 have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?


Greg

Re: NFL proposes discrimination against teams that hire white coaches
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2020, 07:43:20 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Sorry just having a hard time wrapping my head around this...

In the event there ARE no qualified (and ready) minority candidates out there just start grooming them NOW...

Grab Ezekiel Elliot...Dak...Russell Wilson, etc, etc, etc...pull them aside and talk to them and get them in the pipeline to COACH or GM one day...

It's not hard.

Vast majority of these HUGE offensive linemen....cornerbacks...these young dudes come out of college with degrees in VARIOUS fields...learned to lead in their communities AND on campus...you telling me they can't lead a football team or put one together?

Do you think Todd Bowles, Eric Bienemy, Mike Tomlin, Darren Sproles we池e trained on the job during their playing careers? Or any of the white coaches for that matter during their playing careers?  (At least the ones that did play)

A lot of this is expressing a desire to coach, putting in the work to learn and do it, and also knowing the right people to get you an opportunity.

I知 not saying the NFL doesn稚 have a demographic problem, but can you provide any evidence that minority coaches are actively being denied opportunities in the NFL?  Perhaps a couple specific examples?

You can AT LEAST drop the info in their ears...of course they'd focus on playing for the time being.

If they express a desire, grab them right as their playing time is over and give them an opportunity.

And the only evidence I need is the fact that the ESPN article exists and Mr. Goodell even signed off on it.

Quote
A league source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that commissioner Roger Goodell is in favor of the proposal, with the diversity committee trying to incentivize teams with a stronger plan. Three of the past 20 NFL head-coaching hires were minorities, while two of the NFL's 32 general managers are minorities.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180225/nfl-proposal-improve-draft-picks-minority-hires
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.