Opinion: The Bucks are in Trouble

[footey]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

Agree with you. The East looks deeper than we all projected at start of season.  Philly still seems a cut above, at the moment. But Boston, Heat and Raptors should now be put in the same category with the Bucks in the next tier.

This could all change after 10 games, but is how it feels this morning. 

Plus Philly looked very vulnerable vs the Hawks.  And we shot horribly against them on open looks.  I think Brad is a much better coach than Brown and any talent differential on the court can be off set by better coaching.

Would be awesome to see an Eastern Conf Finals between Sixers and Celtics. I'd sign up for that today.

[Donoghus]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist. 

[dannyboy35]

I think the Bucks are in trouble of not getting to the Finals again. While they are deep, Brogdon was a huge loss. There’s just a lot more leaning on role players and less margin for error. It SEEMS like Philly SHOULD be the fave of the East and the Bucks slightly more vulnerable to a hot shooting team or when they go cold. Their 3rd best guy is s big drop off this year from Middleton.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist.

What depth? Illyasova? Canaughton? Bender?

Korver? Hill? Robin Lopez? These guys are fine. They're fine. But I don't see depth. I see "guys."

[CelticsPoetry]

Fantastic win for the C's.  Great comeback, but the C's needed a comeback because the Bucks were up 19.  The Bucks then forgot how to shoot.  Some of that was the C's defense of course, but they also just missed a lot of wide open shots.  It happens.  I wouldn't write their demise quite yet.

Maybe it wasn't forgetting how to shoot, but coming down to earth. They just hit a lot of 3 pointers in the first half and they simply missed those same ones in the second. Whenever we play them, I just feel that every shot they put up will go in, like the one Middleton hit as the shot clock was expiring, I mean come on....

[PhoSita]

I agree that the Bucks are slow and reliant on jumpshots.


However, it's hard for me to say that a team is in trouble when they have Giannis plus a bunch of size and shooting.  They also have a very good coach (though his post-season bona fides could use some work).


The Bucks seem more vulnerable than last year, but Giannis is so good that they can still get to the Finals and maybe even win a title if their shooters get hot.

[Donoghus]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist.

What depth? Illyasova? Canaughton? Bender?

Korver? Hill? Robin Lopez? These guys are fine. They're fine. But I don't see depth. I see "guys."

Yes.  Those guys are serviceable NBA players.    How's the depth on Toronto?  Miami?  Atlanta?  Heck, how did the bench for Boston look in the first half last night.  It's all relative.  You might see "guys" but stack them against the other "guys" out there in the Eastern Conference.

[CelticsPoetry]

I don't think they're in trouble, they are just unlikely to win 60 games this year. Bledsoe/Lopez had such amazing years repeating that feat was always a stretch.

Just playing Matthews/Korver less and giving DJ Wilson, Dante DiVincenzo, and Pat Connaughton his minutes would help the issue you highlight.

Two things: 1) I don't think Bud intends to play young guys, and 2) Are we sure they are really better options? Aren't those guys fringe NBA players?

Connaughton has his moments against us in the playoff series, so he’s probably not a fringe player.  Not great, but showed he can give 15-20 useful minutes.  Ultimately management would probably like to see the other two get some minutes, as both of their rookie contract options were picked up for next season.

I think they’re really going to miss Brogdon.

Connaughton is a guy. He's fine. He's probably not a fringe player, but I also don't think he's a significant role player. He's just a guy.

I agree about Brogdon. In fact, if you visit their RealGM forum, he is brought up like every other post. They also complain a lot about Giannis' development, Middleton's garbage time stats, and Bud's coaching.

The Bucks wiped us out most of the playoff series without Brogdon.  I'm skeptical he would have mattered in a game like last night.  Frankly, he has looked pretty pedestrian/slow for the Pacers so far.  Granted, the Bucks was a better system for him.

Let's also not lose site of the fact that we made our comeback win without our best player this season, Jaylen Brown.

I agree with you on the first part, but he's averaging 22, 5 and 11 this year, nothing pedestrian about that.

[seancally]

In response to the OP, I think that's a good point. They're a slow team. Giannis the obvious exception and he alone is good enough to make them a credible title threat. But this was a good size vs speed game, and this Celtics team is gonna need to be comfortable with speed in order to make noise this season.

[keevsnick]

Fantastic win for the C's.  Great comeback, but the C's needed a comeback because the Bucks were up 19.  The Bucks then forgot how to shoot.  Some of that was the C's defense of course, but they also just missed a lot of wide open shots.  It happens.  I wouldn't write their demise quite yet.

Maybe it wasn't forgetting how to shoot, but coming down to earth. They just hit a lot of 3 pointers in the first half and they simply missed those same ones in the second. Whenever we play them, I just feel that every shot they put up will go in, like the one Middleton hit as the shot clock was expiring, I mean come on....

The Celtics shot 41.5% from three, the Bucks shot 31.1%. Just normalize those two numbers and its pretty much a even game despite holding Giannis to only 22 points, which the C's  wont every night. Then again we didn't have Jaylen and I suspect by the time the C's and Bucks match up in the playoffs (2 and 3 seed second round/) the C's young guys will be better than they are now.

[Moranis]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist.

What depth? Illyasova? Canaughton? Bender?

Korver? Hill? Robin Lopez? These guys are fine. They're fine. But I don't see depth. I see "guys."

Yes.  Those guys are serviceable NBA players.    How's the depth on Toronto?  Miami?  Atlanta?  Heck, how did the bench for Boston look in the first half last night.  It's all relative.  You might see "guys" but stack them against the other "guys" out there in the Eastern Conference.

Exactly.  The Bucks are one of the deepest teams in the league (not just the East).  They have quality NBA players 2 deep (or more) at every position.  They aren't a team of retreads or young GLeauge type players.  Hill, Connaughton, Korver, Ilyasova, and Lopez is a very strong bench, not to mention the deeper rotation is Sterling Brown, DJ Wilson, and Donte DiVincenzio.  All 3 of those guys were rotation level players for the Bucks last year and have now been relegated to barely playing. 

[tonydelk]

... and they know it.

This is something I've thought for a while now, but there is a serious problem with their roster construction.

Almost every player that plays rotation minutes for them is among the slowest in the league: Middleton, Illyasova, Lopez, Lopez, Matthews, Korver, and Hill. Giannis is obviously amazing, but Bledsoe is very inconsistent, especially in big games. That just leaves players like Pat, Brown, Wilson, and Bender.

All that means that they are forced to shoot a lot of jumpshots and they really struggle to defend. Against quick teams like the Cs, they are hoping they can lure ball-handlers into no-man's land and get swallowed up by the Lopez brothers at the rim. The problem is that if the opposing team is able/willing to move the ball, it gets everyone out of position and a step slow.

Come playoff time, this team will struggle to defend and will struggle to hit their shots without another player to stir their offense.

It's not like the team has a lot of upside either. It will just get worse next year. Another year older. Another year slower. Without any youth to help Giannis.

The only concern I have as a Celtic fan is if the Bucks make a trade for Chris Paul. They would be a much tougher out this year, but they would also get older and their window would get smaller. The Bucks actually don't have many trade packages that could work. A crazy 4-1 or 5-1 with Bledsoe and Hill as the core pieces would get it close. The other option is to trade Middleton.

I really think we might be seeing the beginning of the end of Giannis in Milwaukee.

I think Milwakee is absolutely fine.  They did lose some key players.  Brogdon is a beast and losing him really hurts.  Losing Mirotic is another big loss.  It will take time for George Hill and Wes Matthews to integrate as well but right now this is the best team in the East.  If they didn't get so cold on there 3pt shots in the 2nd half yesterday it could have been a blowout.  They will live and die by the 3.  I think by the end of the year it should be close between Philly, Milwaukee and hopefully the C's.

However I've always thought Giannis was going to leave and go to a bigger market.  He seems to say the right things but we've heard that before.  There will be some start in some big market that wants to team up with him that does.  The only way he stays in Milwaukee is if they make the finals.  If they lose in the 2nd round he's gone.  If they make it to the ECF depending on how bad they lose I still feel he's gone.   

[CelticsPoetry]

Fantastic win for the C's.  Great comeback, but the C's needed a comeback because the Bucks were up 19.  The Bucks then forgot how to shoot.  Some of that was the C's defense of course, but they also just missed a lot of wide open shots.  It happens.  I wouldn't write their demise quite yet.

Maybe it wasn't forgetting how to shoot, but coming down to earth. They just hit a lot of 3 pointers in the first half and they simply missed those same ones in the second. Whenever we play them, I just feel that every shot they put up will go in, like the one Middleton hit as the shot clock was expiring, I mean come on....

The Celtics shot 41.5% from three, the Bucks shot 31.1%. Just normalize those two numbers and its pretty much a even game despite holding Giannis to only 22 points, which the C's  wont every night. Then again we didn't have Jaylen and I suspect by the time the C's and Bucks match up in the playoffs (2 and 3 seed second round/) the C's young guys will be better than they are now.

I was just talking about the eye test, I always get the feeling they hit more than their share against us, and it was evident in the first half. When we pulled our heads out of our a**** in the second half, we beat them handily, not just by hitting threes, but having a balanced game, rebounding well and hustling. You know what they say, it's a game of runs.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist.

What depth? Illyasova? Canaughton? Bender?

Korver? Hill? Robin Lopez? These guys are fine. They're fine. But I don't see depth. I see "guys."

Yes.  Those guys are serviceable NBA players.    How's the depth on Toronto?  Miami?  Atlanta?  Heck, how did the bench for Boston look in the first half last night.  It's all relative.  You might see "guys" but stack them against the other "guys" out there in the Eastern Conference.

Raptors
Lowry > Bledsoe
VanFleet > Hill
Gasol > Lopez
Ibaka > R Lopez
Powell > Matthews

Their depth is better. Admittedly, it drops off after their first 7, but their depth is better.

Heat: Herro, Nunn, Dragic, Adebayo, Olynyk, Waiters, Johnson, Jones are greater depth than the Bucks.

Hawks stink. I never brought them up. I brought up the Sixers, Heat, Raptors, and Cs.

Cs
Walker > Bledsoe
Smart > Hill
Brown > Lopez
Kanter > R Lopez
Theis > Illyasova
Williams, Williams, Ojeleye > Cannaughton, Matthews, Korver

Maybe the narrative will flip at some point this season and you will see what I'm trying to say, but the Bucks are filled with washed up, old, slow, has-beens. Their depth is terrible.

[Donoghus]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

When all is said & done, I'd be shocked if that Bucks team wasn't a top 3 team in the East.   As long as Giannis is healthy and the team maintains their depth, they're a team not to be taken lightly. It might be an ugly style of basketball at times but they have plenty of talented veterans who know their roles and understand what they're doing.  Teams like that genuinely have success.  I'm certainly not going to sleep on a team that has a top 3 player in the NBA.

They might coast more in the regular season which could affect their seeding but that's not exactly a team I want to be facing in a 7 game series.  At worst, they're a conference semi-finalist.

What depth? Illyasova? Canaughton? Bender?

Korver? Hill? Robin Lopez? These guys are fine. They're fine. But I don't see depth. I see "guys."

Yes.  Those guys are serviceable NBA players.    How's the depth on Toronto?  Miami?  Atlanta?  Heck, how did the bench for Boston look in the first half last night.  It's all relative.  You might see "guys" but stack them against the other "guys" out there in the Eastern Conference.

Raptors
Lowry > Bledsoe
VanFleet > Hill
Gasol > Lopez
Ibaka > R Lopez
Powell > Matthews

Their depth is better. Admittedly, it drops off after their first 7, but their depth is better.

Heat: Herro, Nunn, Dragic, Adebayo, Olynyk, Waiters, Johnson, Jones are greater depth than the Bucks.

Hawks stink. I never brought them up. I brought up the Sixers, Heat, Raptors, and Cs.

Cs
Walker > Bledsoe
Smart > Hill
Brown > Lopez
Kanter > R Lopez
Theis > Illyasova
Williams, Williams, Ojeleye > Cannaughton, Matthews, Korver

Maybe the narrative will flip at some point this season and you will see what I'm trying to say, but the Bucks are filled with washed up, old, slow, has-beens. Their depth is terrible.

And maybe it won't & you're just underestimating them.  Let's see come April/May.