Shaq discusses Glen Davis' selfishness

[CaptainJackLee]

My thing is this...if what Shaq is saying is true, and he's exhibited selfish motives....why is he still on the team - going on 4 years or so?

That's my question as well, and also why did Doc not get involved in that example Shaq gave? Why did he leave them to work it out themselves?

Good Question.

I'm confused even moreso than normal, now .

As good a coach as Doc is, I find it hard to believe that he'd allow a chemistry issue to continue on, if there was one.

I tend to defend Glen a lot, so I'm admittedly partial towards him.

Maybe what Shaq is discussing is an isolated issue.

Whatever the case is (if there is one), I hope Doc/Danny/Big Four work it out this season.

Remove/release the non-team players (if any) etc, and bring in parts that can work together, without agendas.

This is our last shot. I want Banner 18.

I agree with all of this - tp. I am not the biggest Baby supporter, but it sounds more like a little drama than anything else. I agree that Baby shoots the ball more often than he should, but I doubt he refused to give Shaq the ball time and time again. I always thought one of the biggest problems with the second unit was their lack of assertiveness to take a shot. That's why Baby was always the one taking a stupid jumper with no time left on the shot clock.

I like Shaq and all and wish things went differently this past season, but he really needs to keep his mouth shut sometimes [unless he has something good to say]. This can't help chemistry and sounds like he just hates Baby.

No. Anyone who truly watched BBD play last season recognizes this is true. BBD was looking for a contract. He is a selfish player who is about half as good as he thinks he is. He quit doing the things that made him a solid backup (taking charges, hustling after loose balls, pushing away from the plate of chicken wings), and thought that HE was the star of that second unit. I am sure Doc figured that anyone hearing Shaq scream at them is going to have the wisdom to follow suit. Obviously BBD wasn’t one that would.

If BBD is on our squad again I am going to pull my League Pass subscription… He peaked a couple years back and will only get worse and worse from here on out. Bad teammate, out of shape player. Out you go Chubs!

But - can we trust Shaq here?

Or is this an isolated issue?

I trust Jackie M., and Doc indicated a few times over the years that he was unhappy with Glen's mentality.

Good Point.


Still baffling why Doc didn't fix it.

How? By playing Luke Harangody and Troy Murphy? Would that produce a better end result?

There are lots of players in the league that play selfish basketball and it's not like their coaches like it.

[4THQTR]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

......And even when they don't

Just out of curiosity:

Would u consider pierce as a flopper for flailing his arms whenever he drives to the hole looking to get the occasional extra call...?

[Finkelskyhook]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

......And even when they don't

Just out of curiosity:

Would u consider pierce as a flopper for flailing his arms whenever he drives to the hole looking to get the occasional extra call...?

I think his theatrics suck, actually.  But the star call I object to that only Pierce gets every time...Is when he upfakes and barrels into the defender who has gone straight up.  Again, 90% of the time, the defender is going straight up and Pierce is charging into the defender.  Should be an easy charge call....And it is...For everybody except Paul Pierce.

[nickagneta]

 Should be an easy charge call....And it is...For everybody except Paul Pierce.

And Lebron and Wade and Kobe and Rose and Paul and Deron and Melo and....

The problem is all the stars get that call, not just Pierce. And you are right, its ridiculous. That call should be offensive every time but it never is unless you are a rookie or a bench player with no NBA cred.

[Celtics4ever]

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

I was told to cover your genital areas it makes sense to me.   I also think landing across a large area lessen's the impact.  I always pushed off with my arms  when I hit the ground so I slid so the charge looks more brutal than was it was really.  Another trick is to pull the guy down on top on you by his jersey.  There are all kinds of little tricks to draw a charge or make one look better.   In post play it's inherently dirty and you have to know little tricks to help you out.

[BballTim]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

......And even when they don't

Just out of curiosity:

Would u consider pierce as a flopper for flailing his arms whenever he drives to the hole looking to get the occasional extra call...?

I think his theatrics suck, actually.  But the star call I object to that only Pierce gets every time...Is when he upfakes and barrels into the defender who has gone straight up.  Again, 90% of the time, the defender is going straight up and Pierce is charging into the defender.  Should be an easy charge call....And it is...For everybody except Paul Pierce.

  I agree that should either be a charge or a no-call. But everybody gets that call, not just Paul Pierce. It's been that way for years.

[Finkelskyhook]

 Should be an easy charge call....And it is...For everybody except Paul Pierce.

And Lebron and Wade and Kobe and Rose and Paul and Deron and Melo and....

The problem is all the stars get that call, not just Pierce. And you are right, its ridiculous. That call should be offensive every time but it never is unless you are a rookie or a bench player with no NBA cred.

Perhaps everybody does...But it's not their signature move so it's not so noticable.  With the exception of the messiah, who gets called for little or nothing, the others listed get offensive fouls called when they make that move more often than not.  One of the funniest expressions I've seen in an NBA game last season was the exhaspeated look when Pierce actually got called for it. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that games can be manipulated in any which way when absolutes like overt flopping, Pierce's signature move, every star's extra steps, etc...Become subjective instead of absolute. 

Back to Shaq.  It's a testement to the body Shaq was blessed with that he could be so out of shape for so long and still manage to play as long as he did....Albiet many less games than he could have.  I think it'd be a big risk for the C's or anybody else to sign Davis long term because players with that body type typically break down fast. 

[LilRip]

i really wish we could've traded away BBD. i've never been a fan of ballhogs

[TA9]

Im really tired of this guy. He isnt capable of anything, cant rebound, cant score when needed (Against the Heat (Also the Knicks but we didnt really need him there)). Lets just sign and trade him and get rid of him...
He´s is a funny guy i love his humor etc. But the Celtics aint a comedy club, we need someone who can ball.

[ben]

i really wish we could've traded away BBD. i've never been a fan of ballhogs

agree a thousand times

[Celtics18]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

......And even when they don't

Just out of curiosity:

Would u consider pierce as a flopper for flailing his arms whenever he drives to the hole looking to get the occasional extra call...?

I think his theatrics suck, actually.  But the star call I object to that only Pierce gets every time...Is when he upfakes and barrels into the defender who has gone straight up.  Again, 90% of the time, the defender is going straight up and Pierce is charging into the defender.  Should be an easy charge call....And it is...For everybody except Paul Pierce.

"90% of the time"?  I think it's tough to come up with objective data on this, but I definitely think you're wrong. 

Paul Pierce is one of the craftiest up fakers in the league.  The up fake has been a legitimate part of the craft of basketball for long, long before Paul Pierce started playing the game.

When an offensive player gets a defender in the air too early, catching him with a good up-fake, the defender is generally out of position.  He is rarely going straight up and down, but, rather, usually jumping in towards the offensive player.

You don't have to like the play, but it's one of our captain's go-to moves.  Personally, I've grown to love it over the years.  He is a master of getting defenders to leave their feet and commit the unavoidable foul.  Yes, he draws fouls, but he does it because he's a smart, crafty baller, not because he relies on calls that he shouldn't be getting from refs.

That's my opinion. 

[gar]

Not sure if this has been brought up; but Davis appeared to be hiding some knee issues last season as well. He seems to have lost what little leaping ability he had and was not getting the same lift on  his shot. If he is with the C's it is for one year and soley because of the need for someone who knows the system.

[Celtics4ever]

With his weight how long can his knees take the pounding?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

With his weight how long can his knees take the pounding?

Yep, that's what I was saying in so many words when someone was talking about Shaq's weight in defence of BBD, LAUGHABLE! As if BBD is a picture of fitness! An almost 40 year old can't stay health b/c of not keeping his weight in check, well of course BBD can stay LESS injured, he's in his mid- to early 20s but so could Shaq when he was that young (even in his early-mid 30s, relatively)!

I think Shaq greatly underachieved, he should have easily had about 6 rings but w/e, that's over now. He was definitely selfish back when he was the younger, thing is, he could back that up, should a player like BBD get away with being selfish w/ the talents he has?! Definitely not, especially w/ the way Shaq was performing pre-injury and when 4 other REAL stars are around him!

Maybe BBD is going to put up big numbers on a team who let's him loose (doubtful), but I like him when he plays his role and not try to do too much (play like earlier in the season... that's the BBD I would cheer on and not roll my eyes)! I'm not mad at him for wanting to be "the man" (who wouldn't want to be the star?), I just wish he would realize, from what I have seen so far, he needs to worry more about being the best 6th man(a la Jason Terry or Manu, both who could and should be starters on other teams)!


I actually don't want to give up on BBD so easily as most people have, he is good when he is playing his role... I'd love to keep him if he did. Thing is, he is, in his mind, too great for that! This ain't college Baby, these boys aren't intimidated by your girth! I wish him the best whether he stays or goes b/c I don't wish harm on anyone (well, unless you consider playing terrible harm... I mean injury and such... I don't like to put those vibes on ppl for fear of my team's players karmic injuries)!