Shaq discusses Glen Davis' selfishness

[bfrombleacher]

Kinda related to this... You guys see what Shaq said about the Cavs babying LeBron?  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216276/Shaq_Cavaliers_Allowed_LeBron_To_Do_Whatever_He_Wanted

In the anecdote he mentions Delonte being the one guy willing to point it out.  Kinda interesting.

“I remember one day in a film session LeBron didn’t get back on defense after a missed shot. Mike Brown didn’t say anything about it. He went to the next clip and it was Mo Williams not getting back and Mike was saying, ‘Yo, Mo, we can’t have that. You’ve got to hustle a little more.’ So Delonte West is sitting there and he’s seen enough and he stands up and says, ‘Hold up, now. You can’t be ****footing around like that. Everyone has to be accountable for what they do, not just some us.’ Mike Brown said, ‘I know, Delonte. I know.’ Mike knew Delonte was right.

Love Delonte even more for that now.

[makaveli]

I think that the contract situation really influenced him, I hope he gets a 3 year deal WITH THE CELTICS...remember, he led the league by a landslide in charges if first 30 game, I taught very highly of him and still I do.
I hope he lost 15-20 pounds and cleared his head a little bit, really that's the best he could have done this LONG off season

That is a disgusting statistic.  Leading the league in flopping (cheating) is nothing to hang one's hat on.  He should have led the league in technicals for all of the flopping he did last season.  If Stern had any conviction, he'd have had the balls to address this as he said he would.

If he lost 15-20 lbs, Davis would be lucky to make an NBA roster.  His bulk is his only asset at his height.  He could lose 50 lbs and still be too slow to play SF.

Davis was exposed because one O'Neal was too out of shape and injured and the other was too out of shape and "injured".  Davis is a 7-8-9th man on a title contending team.  He's not nearly as bad as some in here portray him...But he's not nearly tall enough to play 30ppg at PF and center for said team.

Had Shaq amd Jermaine showed up in any semblence of shape this discussion wouldn't be occurring. 

Shaq should rant about his own selfishness instead of Davis'

OMG will do just fine o.O
any championship team would want BBD as 6-7th man
i would love to see you “flooping“ like he does. show some respect

[Finkelskyhook]

I think that the contract situation really influenced him, I hope he gets a 3 year deal WITH THE CELTICS...remember, he led the league by a landslide in charges if first 30 game, I taught very highly of him and still I do.
I hope he lost 15-20 pounds and cleared his head a little bit, really that's the best he could have done this LONG off season

That is a disgusting statistic.  Leading the league in flopping (cheating) is nothing to hang one's hat on.  He should have led the league in technicals for all of the flopping he did last season.  If Stern had any conviction, he'd have had the balls to address this as he said he would.

If he lost 15-20 lbs, Davis would be lucky to make an NBA roster.  His bulk is his only asset at his height.  He could lose 50 lbs and still be too slow to play SF.

Davis was exposed because one O'Neal was too out of shape and injured and the other was too out of shape and "injured".  Davis is a 7-8-9th man on a title contending team.  He's not nearly as bad as some in here portray him...But he's not nearly tall enough to play 30ppg at PF and center for said team.

Had Shaq amd Jermaine showed up in any semblence of shape this discussion wouldn't be occurring. 

Shaq should rant about his own selfishness instead of Davis'

OMG will do just fine o.O
any championship team would want BBD as 6-7th man
i would love to see you “flooping“ like he does. show some respect

You wouldn't see me flopping because it makes a mockery of the game I love.  Want to know how Donaghy got away with what he did??  Look at star calls and flopping.  That brought "subjectivity" to officiating and basically Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.izes the rulebook.  There were plenty of charges called 20 years ago and back without all of the professional wrestling theatrics that we see with the likes of Davis.  It discredits the game.

First of all, I have a lot of respect for most of Davis' game.  Just not the flopping stuff.  He's undersized and has found ways to compete against much bigger players.  I hope we resign him. 

Again, REALLY? You obviously know nothing about Shaq b/c he has always come into seasons out of shape (even for his 4 chips), ask KoMe! Doesn't mean he didn't take winning the chip seriously (again, check his 4 rings) b/c he gets his act together when it mattered, the playoffs (sans injury)... heck, the guy needed surgery but he tried everything he could to play anyway. He got surgery just to walk around, you see dude is retired but he still had surgery!

ImShakHeIsShaq, You are right for the most part here. You're kind of making my point.  KoMe doesn't come into seasons out of shape.  Shaq always has.  I checked his 4 rings.  How many would he have won had he stayed in shape?  Worked on his game?  Played in more than say...75% of the games in his 20 seasons.  Compare Shaq, who should have been by far..The most dominant player in NBA history to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar...Who stayed in shape and was still playing a critical role in his late 30s on great teams.  Shaq was no Bill Walton or Greg Oden.  Shaq was blessed with great athletism and a great body.  He's never put in the work.  His injuries are symtomatic of somebody who hasn't taken the time to get in shape.

It's also extremely classless that O'Neal does this same trashing of players as he exits every team. 

[BballTim]

Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating, its playing into what the refs will call. Better to fall down than get bulldozed by a player with the ball and get called for the block anyways. That's what happens when a defending player doesn't take the impact and stays upright.

Either that or the offensive player gets away with a travel when he's off balance.

Davis acts like he was bulldozed when somebody half his size runs into him.  That's disgusting and cheating....Puts Davis in a class with sleazballs like Derek Fisher and Turkodudo.

  Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating. Falling down when someone *doesn't* run into you and acting like they did is cheating.

[Fafnir]

Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating, its playing into what the refs will call. Better to fall down than get bulldozed by a player with the ball and get called for the block anyways. That's what happens when a defending player doesn't take the impact and stays upright.

Either that or the offensive player gets away with a travel when he's off balance.

Davis acts like he was bulldozed when somebody half his size runs into him.  That's disgusting and cheating....Puts Davis in a class with sleazballs like Derek Fisher and Turkodudo.

I really don't much care if that's "playing into what the refs will call".  It's crappy basketball and it discredits the game.  In allowing this type of silliness, Stern has pussified the game.  When the players policed themselves, a Karl Malone or Maurice Lucas...etc would have given Davis a reason to hit the floor the first time he celebrated a flop.

The problem with this attitude is that there are a great number of players who would crash into Davis against whom he could absorb the blow due to his size. Is he supposed to just stand tall and not get the call, or worse get called for a block?

He gave an interview where he talked about it, how he learned his rookie year that you have to hit the floor to get the charge call.

[Interceptor]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

And how many more posts do I need to make before his stupid name goes away from underneath my handle?

[Fafnir]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

[Finkelskyhook]

Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating, its playing into what the refs will call. Better to fall down than get bulldozed by a player with the ball and get called for the block anyways. That's what happens when a defending player doesn't take the impact and stays upright.

Either that or the offensive player gets away with a travel when he's off balance.

Davis acts like he was bulldozed when somebody half his size runs into him.  That's disgusting and cheating....Puts Davis in a class with sleazballs like Derek Fisher and Turkodudo.

  Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating. Falling down when someone *doesn't* run into you and acting like they did is cheating.

Well, players like Davis, Fisher, Ginobili, Turkododo, (great creativity by Rasheed there) etc do a lot of both.  

When they overtly flop...Instead of a no-call, A technical should be called.  That's what Stern said was supposed to happen.  That's what should happen.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, Fafnir.  My point is..There were plenty of charging calls made when people didn't flop.  To honor the flop by either calling a charge or a no-call facilitates rationalizing an "interpretation" of the rules that leads to what Donaghy...And I would contend other officials...Got and get away with to influence games.  The rule is the rule.  A player shouldn't have to fall over in order for a charge to be called.  By not penalizing players for flopping, the rule becomes too ambiguous and subjective.

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

And how many more posts do I need to make before his stupid name goes away from underneath my handle?

Really?  You think a 300lb man is less likely to get injured if he flails himself and hits a hardwood floor than if he stays on his feet?  I guess I'm not a physics major....Because I'm not understanding.

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

LOL...So if things stay the way they are...Perhaps players like Davis and Fisher have a future in the league.  They could be assistant coaches in charge of proper flopping techniques.

[mmmmm]

Are you saying O'Neal started the season in shape?  Please  Had he come in in remotely decent shape he wouldn't have been dealing with the nagging injuries he dealt with while playing barely 20mpg over less than half a season.

The achilles tendon injury almost certainly had nothing to do with whether he was 'in shape' or not.  That injury just happens when it happens - nothing to do with conditioning.

As for what kind of shape he was in keeping him to only about 20mpg prior to that, well, he was very cheap (vet minimum) compared to the value we got.  Our starter's +/- with Shaq on the floor during those 20 minutes were through the roof.

[Interceptor]

Really?  You think a 300lb man is less likely to get injured if he flails himself and hits a hardwood floor than if he stays on his feet?  I guess I'm not a physics major....Because I'm not understanding.

The point is that you don't flail, you make a controlled fall and spread out the force of the impact. That's why if you jump from a high place, you're supposed to roll to the ground on landing; if you try to stand stiff like a tree trunk you are probably going to break something.

It's simliar to the reason why modern cars will crumple up like accordians in a crash; it is much safer for the passengers. If you go from full speed to 0 MPH instantly, it doesn't really matter if you were wearing a seatbelt, because you are pizza. The extra fraction of a second that your plastic car's crumple zone affords you, will save your life.

[Fafnir]

Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating, its playing into what the refs will call. Better to fall down than get bulldozed by a player with the ball and get called for the block anyways. That's what happens when a defending player doesn't take the impact and stays upright.

Either that or the offensive player gets away with a travel when he's off balance.

Davis acts like he was bulldozed when somebody half his size runs into him.  That's disgusting and cheating....Puts Davis in a class with sleazballs like Derek Fisher and Turkodudo.

  Falling down when someone runs into you isn't cheating. Falling down when someone *doesn't* run into you and acting like they did is cheating.

Well, players like Davis, Fisher, Ginobili, Turkododo, (great creativity by Rasheed there) etc do a lot of both.  

When they overtly flop...Instead of a no-call, A technical should be called.  That's what Stern said was supposed to happen.  That's what should happen.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, Fafnir.  My point is..There were plenty of charging calls made when people didn't flop.  To honor the flop by either calling a charge or a no-call facilitates rationalizing an "interpretation" of the rules that leads to what Donaghy...And I would contend other officials...Got and get away with to influence games.  The rule is the rule.  A player shouldn't have to fall over in order for a charge to be called.  By not penalizing players for flopping, the rule becomes too ambiguous and subjective.

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

And how many more posts do I need to make before his stupid name goes away from underneath my handle?

Really?  You think a 300lb man is less likely to get injured if he flails himself and hits a hardwood floor than if he stays on his feet?  I guess I'm not a physics major....Because I'm not understanding.

Yes he is, to stay on his feet Davis has to apply a greater amount of force to the player charging into him. This results in an increase in the amount of energy from the impact. Further more proper falling technique allows you to channel the impact to areas of your body that can absorb the blow (your butt for example). A rigid body is more likely to snap than one that can bend and give after all.

If you take the blow and fall under control you can prevent your body from falling ackwardly and catching your knees/ankle/writs in a position where it is vulnerable.

Davis as big as he is couldn't absorb most nba players going into him with a head of steam anyways. 1/2 m v^2 = KE, speed is always more important than mass when it comes to impacts.

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

LOL...So if things stay the way they are...Perhaps players like Davis and Fisher have a future in the league.  They could be assistant coaches in charge of proper flopping techniques.

Its not even on flops that it bothers me. Its how when Rondo is knocked into the seats he has his arms out where his body weight could easily snap a wrist, stuff like that. Tucking your arms in and shielding your head as much as possible are key to falling with as little chance of injury.

[Celtics4ever]

Drawing fouls is a legit skill.  Flopping or taking one for the team is no more cheating than a head or ball fake.  The object is too get possession and take away a foul from the other team in hopes of causing them problems.

I wish Glenn Davis was more selfish on the boards!

[action781]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

[Fafnir]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

[Finkelskyhook]

BBD would be a fool if he didn't fall over when someone ran into him, he's much more likely to get hurt if he stands his ground.

This is also a good point, if someone runs into you its better to fall correctly than try and stand tall. Less likely to be an injury if you do it right for either player.

(the number of NBA players who don't fall correctly always bugs me, far too many don't tuck their arms into their bodies)

If you're trying to prevent injury, then yes, tucking your arms into your body is probably "correct".  But in terms of trying to draw the charge, you're supposed to let your arms flail out, hit the ground with your butt/lower back, and try to soften the fall by rolling out the fall with your entire back while lifting your head up so it doesn't smack the ground.  That's why they don't tuck their arms in.  I was taught to flail my arms to draw attention to the action.

Yeah that certainly could be part of it. If you're taking a charge it makese sense, but players do it all the time when they get whacked...

......And even when they don't