Shams: Celtics Interested In Simmons

[Kernewek]

I don't think it's a big stretch of the imagination for Simmons to have legitimate mental health issues regarding the Sixers (they did about all they could to hurl him as hard as they could under the bus, deserved or not) and for that to not come to light until later in The Process (  ) when Rich Paul actually learned how the CBA worked.

But I'm not sure it's very worth our time to figure out what's going on in Simmons's head or to comment on the legitimacy of those issues.

[greg683x]

I have social anxiety issues, but they are under control now and have been for a while through therapy and medication.

If Simmons issues are due to the anxiety if returning to an environment where he needs to face certain people, I can understand that.

But....

Those anxiety issues will not magically disappear right away, even if he changes teams. That's not how the crippling effects of anxiety work, especially if he isn't addressing the issue with some combination of therapy and medication.

That he is healthy enough to go to the Philly facilities and put in some practice work with some people there, tells me a bunch of this might be performance anxiety and not social anxiety. And again, he would still need to perform wherever he was traded to, so that won't be some magical panacea to getting back onto the court.

If Simmons is traded and immediately is playing, I am calling bunk on his mental illness. Anxiety that causes you to not be able to work doesn't disappear immediately just from changing workplaces. That simply is not the way any mental illness works. You don't just, coining a popular stigmatic phrase associated with mental illness, "snap out of it".

and yet we pretty consistently see people who are physically, mentally, or sexually harassed get significantly better and function much better when they (or their abuser) are removed from the environment.  I have no idea what has happened between Simmons and the Sixers, but it isn't a crazy thought to think that if the Sixers are causing or significantly contributing to his issues that when he is no longer on the Sixers a lot of his issues will alleviate.  That doesn't mean he will be 100%, but it might mean he can actually play.  I also have no idea if he is just making this up, but he is apparently getting help from mental health professionals from the player's association and now the Sixers themselves.  Those doctors are presumably in a position to diagnose and treat him.

Completely disagree with your assessment of abused people getting significantly better by simply being removed from the abuser. Seems like you really have no idea what you are saying with such a statement. None whatsoever. So I will just bow out here. No need to argue with you when you don't know what you are talking about.

I've seen first hand many times people significantly improve their own well being when their environment changes when it is the environment that is causing many of the issues.  I never said they were 100% better or anything like that.  Of course Simmons isn't being abused in that sort of manner either.  His issues presumably stem from the Sixers and how they've treated him so removing him from that environment very easily could allow him to play whereas staying in Philly he may not be able to.  And that doesn't mean he is faking it.

How do you know the bolded?  There is as much public evidence that 'his issues' stem completely from himself.  I don't get your over the top love for Ben Simmons.  I don't get you distorting the facts to be some kind of Ben Simmons apologist.  It is kind of creepy.

I'm with Moranis on this. He's an elite talent and the Sixers organization sucks.

People will see. He will likely end up playing for someone and be very, very good doing it. He's perfect for an elite Andre Igoudale/Draymond Green type role on that Warriors team that won the championship. But the Sixers want him to be Giannis instead.

I think he could eventually be good on another team, although I have questioned how much he wants to play basketball a bit lately. I just don’t think we should go the top in how we discuss it and use domestic abuse survivors as comparable to what simmons has been through. I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him and he had previously given 6-7 other reasons he wouldn’t show up. This isn’t a unique position I hold on this, just about every major publication has made mention the league is watching this and it will be an issue in the new cba.

He brought up the mental health issues long before the Sixers fined him.  The Sixers fined him because he wasn't going to the Sixers doctor or sharing his records from the NBAPA doctor with the Sixers.

I believe That was the second round of fining him. They put his money in an escrow account, we’re taking out money and rich paul investigated with the nba players association whether they could get the money back when he was traded (didn’t fully understand cba). When they learned he wouldn’t get any of the fined money back simmons reported to 76ers and said he wasn’t ready to play mentally and had public support from his teammates. Then he stopped giving updates to the team so they started fining him again.

“Simmons’ side had been dealt a blow the previous week when the NBA and players’ union issued a memo stating a player without a “reasonable excuse” will not be paid for games he does not play. Previously, the collectively bargained league memos had used slightly softer language, like “would not” be paid, which Paul’s agency believed left room to argue Simmons could ask to be paid for the salary he lost if and when he was traded, sources said.”

Simmons reported to team and mentioned mental health issues shortly after this.

He has made it clear from the beginning he is done with the Sixers and had no intention of playing for them again.  If you are mentally done with a team, you may not ever be mentally able to play for them.

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong about the fines? I’ll take it.

No.  I'm saying he was always not mentally prepared for the Sixers, but he didn't have to say anything until he actually reported.

Oh darn you were going to get some respect from me if that was the case. What you said was clearly inaccurate. But I guess we carry on.

What did I say that was inaccurate?

You are smart enough to figure this out man. I’m gonna be like Nick and see my way out. Your embarrassing yourself at this point.

Got it.  So you realize I said nothing inaccurate and then try to save face.  Sounds good.

You literally had the timing of the fines wrong. You are comparing Simmons to a domestic abuse survivor. I don’t get what is wrong with you. As another poster put it this is getting creepy.

I absolutely did not have the timing of the fines wrong.

Simmons fails to report saying he doesn't want to play in Philly anymore
Sixers fine him
Simmons eventually reports, and says he is not mentally ready to play
Sixers stop fining him
Simmons gets treatment
Simmons doesn't share treatment with Sixers
Sixers fine him for not meeting with their doctor or sharing his treatment


That is the timeline, which matches pretty much exactly what I said, and was not at all what you said.  You said

I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him

.  That isn't correct at all and that is what I called you on.  Simmons wasn't being fined when he mentioned he was having mental health issues.  So you flat out lied about a fact, for you to then say I was being inaccurate just isn't borne in reality.  The only one of us talking about inaccurate facts is you.

You almost it had pal. But very close. Fixed it for you. You only referenced the second round of fining originally. Was inaccurate and not borne in reality.

You two need to just quit fooling yourselves and go out on a date.

[celticsclay]

I don't think it's a big stretch of the imagination for Simmons to have legitimate mental health issues regarding the Sixers (they did about all they could to hurl him as hard as they could under the bus, deserved or not) and for that to not come to light until later in The Process (  ) when Rich Paul actually learned how the CBA worked.

But I'm not sure it's very worth our time to figure out what's going on in Simmons's head or to comment on the legitimacy of those issues.

Yeah I guess at this point we just have to wait and see what happens. I’ve been really upset with Ben Simmons at kind of a personal level because I do really honestly believe (as do many others) that he is doing damage to the progress made in reducing stigma around mental health. My prior company had a very large partnership with numerous nba players (Including old friend Gordon Hayward) on reducing stigma on anxiety and depression. While I do believe there is a very reasonable chance he does have some issues (a very substantial amount of the the general population and pro athletes do) the way rich paul and simmons have gone about this has raised a lot of questions about what exactly is happening and has suspicious timing around fines and lost game checks (I don’t think 76ers are doing everything perfect either). My biggest fear is this is going to be a setback towards the days of “just toughen up and get out there.” But we may never actually even know what was really going on, so it is pointless to speculate further. Just a disappointing situation all around.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think it's a big stretch of the imagination for Simmons to have legitimate mental health issues regarding the Sixers (they did about all they could to hurl him as hard as they could under the bus, deserved or not) and for that to not come to light until later in The Process (  ) when Rich Paul actually learned how the CBA worked.

But I'm not sure it's very worth our time to figure out what's going on in Simmons's head or to comment on the legitimacy of those issues.

Yeah I guess at this point we just have to wait and see what happens. I’ve been really upset with Ben Simmons at kind of a personal level because I do really honestly believe (as do many others) that he is doing damage to the progress made in reducing stigma around mental health. My prior company had a very large partnership with numerous nba players (Including old friend Gordon Hayward) on reducing stigma on anxiety and depression. While I do believe there is a very reasonable chance he does have some issues (a very substantial amount of the the general population and pro athletes do) the way rich paul and simmons have gone about this has raised a lot of questions about what exactly is happening and has suspicious timing around fines and lost game checks (I don’t think 76ers are doing everything perfect either). My biggest fear is this is going to be a setback towards the days of “just toughen up and get out there.” But we may never actually even know what was really going on, so it is pointless to speculate further. Just a disappointing situation all around.

I think we just had a breakthrough     Both are true.  Simmons does have some underlying mental health issues, or at least he is not 100% mentally fit, and it is also true that Rich Paul worked it to protect as much of his client's money as he could.  I think both of these things are pretty obvious.

Now, all the GMs in the league know this and are not going to give up a star or a star package to get Simmons so the stalemate continues.  Philly is going to have to adjust their expectation or they will never trade Simmons.  Kind of lose-lose for them.

[mobilija]

I have social anxiety issues, but they are under control now and have been for a while through therapy and medication.

If Simmons issues are due to the anxiety if returning to an environment where he needs to face certain people, I can understand that.

But....

Those anxiety issues will not magically disappear right away, even if he changes teams. That's not how the crippling effects of anxiety work, especially if he isn't addressing the issue with some combination of therapy and medication.

That he is healthy enough to go to the Philly facilities and put in some practice work with some people there, tells me a bunch of this might be performance anxiety and not social anxiety. And again, he would still need to perform wherever he was traded to, so that won't be some magical panacea to getting back onto the court.

If Simmons is traded and immediately is playing, I am calling bunk on his mental illness. Anxiety that causes you to not be able to work doesn't disappear immediately just from changing workplaces. That simply is not the way any mental illness works. You don't just, coining a popular stigmatic phrase associated with mental illness, "snap out of it".

and yet we pretty consistently see people who are physically, mentally, or sexually harassed get significantly better and function much better when they (or their abuser) are removed from the environment.  I have no idea what has happened between Simmons and the Sixers, but it isn't a crazy thought to think that if the Sixers are causing or significantly contributing to his issues that when he is no longer on the Sixers a lot of his issues will alleviate.  That doesn't mean he will be 100%, but it might mean he can actually play.  I also have no idea if he is just making this up, but he is apparently getting help from mental health professionals from the player's association and now the Sixers themselves.  Those doctors are presumably in a position to diagnose and treat him.

Completely disagree with your assessment of abused people getting significantly better by simply being removed from the abuser. Seems like you really have no idea what you are saying with such a statement. None whatsoever. So I will just bow out here. No need to argue with you when you don't know what you are talking about.

I've seen first hand many times people significantly improve their own well being when their environment changes when it is the environment that is causing many of the issues.  I never said they were 100% better or anything like that.  Of course Simmons isn't being abused in that sort of manner either.  His issues presumably stem from the Sixers and how they've treated him so removing him from that environment very easily could allow him to play whereas staying in Philly he may not be able to.  And that doesn't mean he is faking it.

How do you know the bolded?  There is as much public evidence that 'his issues' stem completely from himself.  I don't get your over the top love for Ben Simmons.  I don't get you distorting the facts to be some kind of Ben Simmons apologist.  It is kind of creepy.

I'm with Moranis on this. He's an elite talent and the Sixers organization sucks.

People will see. He will likely end up playing for someone and be very, very good doing it. He's perfect for an elite Andre Igoudale/Draymond Green type role on that Warriors team that won the championship. But the Sixers want him to be Giannis instead.

I think he could eventually be good on another team, although I have questioned how much he wants to play basketball a bit lately. I just don’t think we should go the top in how we discuss it and use domestic abuse survivors as comparable to what simmons has been through. I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him and he had previously given 6-7 other reasons he wouldn’t show up. This isn’t a unique position I hold on this, just about every major publication has made mention the league is watching this and it will be an issue in the new cba.

He brought up the mental health issues long before the Sixers fined him.  The Sixers fined him because he wasn't going to the Sixers doctor or sharing his records from the NBAPA doctor with the Sixers.

I believe That was the second round of fining him. They put his money in an escrow account, we’re taking out money and rich paul investigated with the nba players association whether they could get the money back when he was traded (didn’t fully understand cba). When they learned he wouldn’t get any of the fined money back simmons reported to 76ers and said he wasn’t ready to play mentally and had public support from his teammates. Then he stopped giving updates to the team so they started fining him again.

“Simmons’ side had been dealt a blow the previous week when the NBA and players’ union issued a memo stating a player without a “reasonable excuse” will not be paid for games he does not play. Previously, the collectively bargained league memos had used slightly softer language, like “would not” be paid, which Paul’s agency believed left room to argue Simmons could ask to be paid for the salary he lost if and when he was traded, sources said.”

Simmons reported to team and mentioned mental health issues shortly after this.

He has made it clear from the beginning he is done with the Sixers and had no intention of playing for them again.  If you are mentally done with a team, you may not ever be mentally able to play for them.

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong about the fines? I’ll take it.

No.  I'm saying he was always not mentally prepared for the Sixers, but he didn't have to say anything until he actually reported.

Oh darn you were going to get some respect from me if that was the case. What you said was clearly inaccurate. But I guess we carry on.

What did I say that was inaccurate?

You are smart enough to figure this out man. I’m gonna be like Nick and see my way out. Your embarrassing yourself at this point.

Got it.  So you realize I said nothing inaccurate and then try to save face.  Sounds good.

You literally had the timing of the fines wrong. You are comparing Simmons to a domestic abuse survivor. I don’t get what is wrong with you. As another poster put it this is getting creepy.

I absolutely did not have the timing of the fines wrong.

Simmons fails to report saying he doesn't want to play in Philly anymore
Sixers fine him
Simmons eventually reports, and says he is not mentally ready to play
Sixers stop fining him
Simmons gets treatment
Simmons doesn't share treatment with Sixers
Sixers fine him for not meeting with their doctor or sharing his treatment


That is the timeline, which matches pretty much exactly what I said, and was not at all what you said.  You said

I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him

.  That isn't correct at all and that is what I called you on.  Simmons wasn't being fined when he mentioned he was having mental health issues.  So you flat out lied about a fact, for you to then say I was being inaccurate just isn't borne in reality.  The only one of us talking about inaccurate facts is you.

You almost it had pal. But very close. Fixed it for you. You only referenced the second round of fining originally. Was inaccurate and not borne in reality.

You two need to just quit fooling yourselves and go out on a date.

LOL. TP gregx.
They're like a sitcom couple....Sam and Diane from Cheers being best example.

[Kernewek]

I don't think it's a big stretch of the imagination for Simmons to have legitimate mental health issues regarding the Sixers (they did about all they could to hurl him as hard as they could under the bus, deserved or not) and for that to not come to light until later in The Process (  ) when Rich Paul actually learned how the CBA worked.

But I'm not sure it's very worth our time to figure out what's going on in Simmons's head or to comment on the legitimacy of those issues.

Yeah I guess at this point we just have to wait and see what happens. I’ve been really upset with Ben Simmons at kind of a personal level because I do really honestly believe (as do many others) that he is doing damage to the progress made in reducing stigma around mental health. My prior company had a very large partnership with numerous nba players (Including old friend Gordon Hayward) on reducing stigma on anxiety and depression. While I do believe there is a very reasonable chance he does have some issues (a very substantial amount of the the general population and pro athletes do) the way rich paul and simmons have gone about this has raised a lot of questions about what exactly is happening and has suspicious timing around fines and lost game checks (I don’t think 76ers are doing everything perfect either). My biggest fear is this is going to be a setback towards the days of “just toughen up and get out there.” But we may never actually even know what was really going on, so it is pointless to speculate further. Just a disappointing situation all around.

100% agreed with the bolded. It's a bummer.

[greg683x]

I have social anxiety issues, but they are under control now and have been for a while through therapy and medication.

If Simmons issues are due to the anxiety if returning to an environment where he needs to face certain people, I can understand that.

But....

Those anxiety issues will not magically disappear right away, even if he changes teams. That's not how the crippling effects of anxiety work, especially if he isn't addressing the issue with some combination of therapy and medication.

That he is healthy enough to go to the Philly facilities and put in some practice work with some people there, tells me a bunch of this might be performance anxiety and not social anxiety. And again, he would still need to perform wherever he was traded to, so that won't be some magical panacea to getting back onto the court.

If Simmons is traded and immediately is playing, I am calling bunk on his mental illness. Anxiety that causes you to not be able to work doesn't disappear immediately just from changing workplaces. That simply is not the way any mental illness works. You don't just, coining a popular stigmatic phrase associated with mental illness, "snap out of it".

and yet we pretty consistently see people who are physically, mentally, or sexually harassed get significantly better and function much better when they (or their abuser) are removed from the environment.  I have no idea what has happened between Simmons and the Sixers, but it isn't a crazy thought to think that if the Sixers are causing or significantly contributing to his issues that when he is no longer on the Sixers a lot of his issues will alleviate.  That doesn't mean he will be 100%, but it might mean he can actually play.  I also have no idea if he is just making this up, but he is apparently getting help from mental health professionals from the player's association and now the Sixers themselves.  Those doctors are presumably in a position to diagnose and treat him.

Completely disagree with your assessment of abused people getting significantly better by simply being removed from the abuser. Seems like you really have no idea what you are saying with such a statement. None whatsoever. So I will just bow out here. No need to argue with you when you don't know what you are talking about.

I've seen first hand many times people significantly improve their own well being when their environment changes when it is the environment that is causing many of the issues.  I never said they were 100% better or anything like that.  Of course Simmons isn't being abused in that sort of manner either.  His issues presumably stem from the Sixers and how they've treated him so removing him from that environment very easily could allow him to play whereas staying in Philly he may not be able to.  And that doesn't mean he is faking it.

How do you know the bolded?  There is as much public evidence that 'his issues' stem completely from himself.  I don't get your over the top love for Ben Simmons.  I don't get you distorting the facts to be some kind of Ben Simmons apologist.  It is kind of creepy.

I'm with Moranis on this. He's an elite talent and the Sixers organization sucks.

People will see. He will likely end up playing for someone and be very, very good doing it. He's perfect for an elite Andre Igoudale/Draymond Green type role on that Warriors team that won the championship. But the Sixers want him to be Giannis instead.

I think he could eventually be good on another team, although I have questioned how much he wants to play basketball a bit lately. I just don’t think we should go the top in how we discuss it and use domestic abuse survivors as comparable to what simmons has been through. I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him and he had previously given 6-7 other reasons he wouldn’t show up. This isn’t a unique position I hold on this, just about every major publication has made mention the league is watching this and it will be an issue in the new cba.

He brought up the mental health issues long before the Sixers fined him.  The Sixers fined him because he wasn't going to the Sixers doctor or sharing his records from the NBAPA doctor with the Sixers.

I believe That was the second round of fining him. They put his money in an escrow account, we’re taking out money and rich paul investigated with the nba players association whether they could get the money back when he was traded (didn’t fully understand cba). When they learned he wouldn’t get any of the fined money back simmons reported to 76ers and said he wasn’t ready to play mentally and had public support from his teammates. Then he stopped giving updates to the team so they started fining him again.

“Simmons’ side had been dealt a blow the previous week when the NBA and players’ union issued a memo stating a player without a “reasonable excuse” will not be paid for games he does not play. Previously, the collectively bargained league memos had used slightly softer language, like “would not” be paid, which Paul’s agency believed left room to argue Simmons could ask to be paid for the salary he lost if and when he was traded, sources said.”

Simmons reported to team and mentioned mental health issues shortly after this.

He has made it clear from the beginning he is done with the Sixers and had no intention of playing for them again.  If you are mentally done with a team, you may not ever be mentally able to play for them.

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong about the fines? I’ll take it.

No.  I'm saying he was always not mentally prepared for the Sixers, but he didn't have to say anything until he actually reported.

Oh darn you were going to get some respect from me if that was the case. What you said was clearly inaccurate. But I guess we carry on.

What did I say that was inaccurate?

You are smart enough to figure this out man. I’m gonna be like Nick and see my way out. Your embarrassing yourself at this point.

Got it.  So you realize I said nothing inaccurate and then try to save face.  Sounds good.

You literally had the timing of the fines wrong. You are comparing Simmons to a domestic abuse survivor. I don’t get what is wrong with you. As another poster put it this is getting creepy.

I absolutely did not have the timing of the fines wrong.

Simmons fails to report saying he doesn't want to play in Philly anymore
Sixers fine him
Simmons eventually reports, and says he is not mentally ready to play
Sixers stop fining him
Simmons gets treatment
Simmons doesn't share treatment with Sixers
Sixers fine him for not meeting with their doctor or sharing his treatment


That is the timeline, which matches pretty much exactly what I said, and was not at all what you said.  You said

I do think it is also pretty clear some of the mental health claims are just tied to money because we can’t ignore they keep getting brought up whenever the 76ers fine him

.  That isn't correct at all and that is what I called you on.  Simmons wasn't being fined when he mentioned he was having mental health issues.  So you flat out lied about a fact, for you to then say I was being inaccurate just isn't borne in reality.  The only one of us talking about inaccurate facts is you.

You almost it had pal. But very close. Fixed it for you. You only referenced the second round of fining originally. Was inaccurate and not borne in reality.

You two need to just quit fooling yourselves and go out on a date.

LOL. TP gregx.
They're like a sitcom couple....Sam and Diane from Cheers being best example.

They are, and it’s completely distorting my opinions of Michael Douglas and Rick Moranis

[Wretch]

I am not a fan of Klutch or Simmons right now and I think they are using mental health as a shield for the fact that they are staging what amounts to a "hold-in" rather than a hold out.

That said I wonder if Simmons is like Larry Sanders and the pressures of the NBA and being in the spotlight in a sports town like Philly have affected his mental health.

If either of these scenarios is accurate then I think the 76ers are in for a long and bumpy road and will not be able to trade him for what they are asking. 

If the second scenario is accurate I hope he get help and can continue to play, he's a phenomenal talent.  If the first scenario is accurate I hope both Simmons and Paul rot in Hell for creating a situation where the next player that has legitimate mental health issues will face unnecessary scrutiny due to Klutch and Simmon's abuse of the mental health protections.

[gift]

I am not a fan of Klutch or Simmons right now and I think they are using mental health as a shield for the fact that they are staging what amounts to a "hold-in" rather than a hold out.

That said I wonder if Simmons is like Larry Sanders and the pressures of the NBA and being in the spotlight in a sports town like Philly have affected his mental health.

If either of these scenarios is accurate then I think the 76ers are in for a long and bumpy road and will not be able to trade him for what they are asking. 

If the second scenario is accurate I hope he get help and can continue to play, he's a phenomenal talent.  If the first scenario is accurate I hope both Simmons and Paul rot in Hell for creating a situation where the next player that has legitimate mental health issues will face unnecessary scrutiny due to Klutch and Simmon's abuse of the mental health protections.

Simmons has legit mental health concerns, but very little of it should be resolved by playing literally any place other than Philly or by not playing at all. It's all too convenient his mental health issues are only a problem when he's asked to do anything involving his current team.

For real though, I hope he's seeing a counselor.

[dannyboy35]

  Not like I actually KNOW but I think Kutcher would try what they are doing legit or not. I think it’s legit that Simmons also has mental health issues. It’s frustrating watching somebody who doesn’t work hard then go to not working at all. Either way Simmons has disrespected teammates, coaches, fans by not working on his game.   He may be a nice person. Sure he has great qualities but he’s a pretty poor employee, coworker.