The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[Roy H.]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

Here’s my problem: in a vacuum it makes sense that Kyrie should stay. The Celtics retain their most talented player from last year, and he seemingly buys into the team more.

But in reality the case of Kyrie isn’t so simple. He’s mercurial and not a “Batman” (as Perk said). Most fans cheer for this team because it’s fun to watch basketball and the Celtics always compete. If that’s your reason to be a fan—and you aren’t going to have a mental breakdown if they aren’t a “contender”—Kyrie isn’t a guy you want on the team.

I just want to say I love the way you articulated this.  Really concise and accurate.

It’s an opinion, anyway.

I like watching Kyrie play basketball. It’s enjoyable to me.  I’m glad he plays basketball for us.

I don’t like Kyrie when he’s talking to the media. Rooting for him playing beside a superstar, with some veteran role players sprinkled in, would suit me just fine.

[Rondo9]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

Here’s my problem: in a vacuum it makes sense that Kyrie should stay. The Celtics retain their most talented player from last year, and he seemingly buys into the team more.

But in reality the case of Kyrie isn’t so simple. He’s mercurial and not a “Batman” (as Perk said). Most fans cheer for this team because it’s fun to watch basketball and the Celtics always compete. If that’s your reason to be a fan—and you aren’t going to have a mental breakdown if they aren’t a “contender”—Kyrie isn’t a guy you want on the team.

So just allow an All-Star walk then?

[Pvictor11]

The biggest problem for me is the franchise being hostage of Davis and Kyrie. It's impossible to forget that both recently demanded trades from their teams and set back both franchises. Kyrie messed with the Cavs last playoff run and Davis created that whole deadline drama that we all know about.

Imagine if we sign both (Kyrie and AD) to multiple years. If something starts to go the wrong way for them, I'm not sure one or the other wouldn't demand a trade. We are not the Pelicans or the Cavs, we can't be held hostages by any player. The franchise is bigger than any player in this league.

So, my biggest fear with these guys is that apparently we would have to get rid of everything of value that we have to get them (Brown, Tatum, picks, etc), and then in two years we are without titles and both are demanding a trade to some other team.

I was watching parts of some games of the 2017-2018 playoffs again and Brown and Tatum played so good that is hard for me to think they can't become great players, specially in this day and age, with two-way wings dominating the league. I think that having a great wing duo is better suited for the actual NBA than a PG - Center combo (Kyrie and AD). It's not the 90's or the 00's anymore.

[gpap]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

Maybe one question that needs to be asked is, does Ainge want to go this route?

While I’m not 100% sure that you’ve got the right trade, conceptually this may be the only feasible way to keep Kyrie and get AD.  Kyrie has to at least hear the Celtics out with potentially 50M extra on the line for staying.  Danny’s “sell” could essentially be that they’d go all in on building around KI and AD — that they’d look to use the young talent as trade bait for AD AND to land other veteran talent. KI and AD would have a hand in recruitment (MLE) and would have input re: trade acquisitions.

Frankly, as much as I don’t particularly like my own post here, I think appealing to KIs ego while maximizing his bank account may ultimately put the C’s in play as contenders over the next 5 years.

That's the gist of it.

I don't necessarily like catering to superstars, however the NBA is a superstar league and the thought of the Celtics building around Tatum and Brown is a little unnerving.

I know Kyrie can be a pain in the ass, but he's also a phenomenal player (Bucks series aside) and I think building around him, AD and whomever else we can bring in over the next couple years gives us our best chance at competing with Milwaukee and Toronto.

Not that there aren't other ways the Celts could be competitive, but this just seems like the most obvious route to me.

[Ogaju]

The biggest problem for me is the franchise being hostage of Davis and Kyrie. It's impossible to forget that both recently demanded trades from their teams and set back both franchises. Kyrie messed with the Cavs last playoff run and Davis created that whole deadline drama that we all know about.

Imagine if we sign both (Kyrie and AD) to multiple years. If something starts to go the wrong way for them, I'm not sure one or the other wouldn't demand a trade. We are not the Pelicans or the Cavs, we can't be held hostages by any player. The franchise is bigger than any player in this league.

So, my biggest fear with these guys is that apparently we would have to get rid of everything of value that we have to get them (Brown, Tatum, picks, etc), and then in two years we are without titles and both are demanding a trade to some other team.

I was watching parts of some games of the 2017-2018 playoffs again and Brown and Tatum played so good that is hard for me to think they can't become great players, specially in this day and age, with two-way wings dominating the league. I think that having a great wing duo is better suited for the actual NBA than a PG - Center combo (Kyrie and AD). It's not the 90's or the 00's anymore.

This !!!

[Ogaju]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

[Roy H.]

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

How many max-level players is this actually true of?

It seems like just about every all-star player at least entertains offers in free agency.  Plenty of great players leave, too.  (Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, Horford, Hayward, Durant, etc.)

[Csfan1984]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

Maybe he is just a poor loser who wants no criticism. I suppose that means he isn't a good leader. When things are going well and he is praised he seems to love it here. He probably needs to be a Clipper.

[LilRip]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

[Ogaju]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

KD? Name the team he has led. Everyone knows Dubs belong to Steph, Klay and Dray. KD is just along for the ride. If it wasnt so Dray would not have called him out to his face. He is not a leader of the dubs. A leader does not sign 1 year deals an opportunist does.

If KD were available I would take him with open arms, as I would Kyrie, that does not make either of them a leader. Every player has his role. Neither of these two would I hand the leadership keys.

I will take Wade and Lebron in their primes, LeBron over Wade, he is and was the better player. Wade would lead, because even Lebron recognizes Wade's leadership.

Any other questions?
 

[LilRip]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

KD? Name the team he has led. Everyone knows Dubs belong to Steph, Klay and Dray. KD is just along for the ride. If it wasnt so Dray would not have called him out to his face. He is not a leader of the dubs. A leader does not sign 1 year deals an opportunist does.

If KD were available I would take him with open arms, as I would Kyrie, that does not make either of them a leader. Every player has his role. Neither of these two would I hand the leadership keys.

I will take Wade and Lebron in their primes, LeBron over Wade, he is and was the better player. Wade would lead, because even Lebron recognizes Wade's leadership.

Any other questions?

KD led the Thunder. Then he left them, which was cruel. For a rival team, which was cruel. If he goes here, you thjnk he won’t be the leader?

Lebron led the Cavs. Even won a championship that 2nd time. You’re right that Lebron recognized Wade but Wade deferred to Lebron, which I guess makes him a good leader too. Besides, a team can have multiple leaders (see your example above with steph, klay and dray).

Also, what about Horford? Is he a poor leader?

Also, let me hit u with another player: Steve Nash. Was he a poor leader?

Double standards

[Ogaju]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

KD? Name the team he has led. Everyone knows Dubs belong to Steph, Klay and Dray. KD is just along for the ride. If it wasnt so Dray would not have called him out to his face. He is not a leader of the dubs. A leader does not sign 1 year deals an opportunist does.

If KD were available I would take him with open arms, as I would Kyrie, that does not make either of them a leader. Every player has his role. Neither of these two would I hand the leadership keys.

I will take Wade and Lebron in their primes, LeBron over Wade, he is and was the better player. Wade would lead, because even Lebron recognizes Wade's leadership.

Any other questions?

KD led the Thunder. Then he left them, which was cruel. For a rival team, which was cruel. If he goes here, you thjnk he won’t be the leader?

Lebron led the Cavs. Even won a championship that 2nd time. You’re right that Lebron recognized Wade but Wade deferred to Lebron, which I guess makes him a good leader too. Besides, a team can have multiple leaders (see your example above with steph, klay and dray).

Also, what about Horford? Is he a poor leader?

Also, let me hit u with another player: Steve Nash. Was he a poor leader?

Double standards

My bad, I forgot the most important question. Horford leads with example. He is a good leader. Steve Nash was a good leader.  KD did not lead the Thunder. Westbrook led and leads the Thunder.

[LilRip]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

KD? Name the team he has led. Everyone knows Dubs belong to Steph, Klay and Dray. KD is just along for the ride. If it wasnt so Dray would not have called him out to his face. He is not a leader of the dubs. A leader does not sign 1 year deals an opportunist does.

If KD were available I would take him with open arms, as I would Kyrie, that does not make either of them a leader. Every player has his role. Neither of these two would I hand the leadership keys.

I will take Wade and Lebron in their primes, LeBron over Wade, he is and was the better player. Wade would lead, because even Lebron recognizes Wade's leadership.

Any other questions?

KD led the Thunder. Then he left them, which was cruel. For a rival team, which was cruel. If he goes here, you thjnk he won’t be the leader?

Lebron led the Cavs. Even won a championship that 2nd time. You’re right that Lebron recognized Wade but Wade deferred to Lebron, which I guess makes him a good leader too. Besides, a team can have multiple leaders (see your example above with steph, klay and dray).

Also, what about Horford? Is he a poor leader?

Also, let me hit u with another player: Steve Nash. Was he a poor leader?

Double standards

My bad, I forgot the most important question. Horford leads with example. He is a good leader. Steve Nash was a good leader.  KD did not lead the Thunder. Westbrook led and leads the Thunder.

And yet Horford and Nash were open to being recruited by other teams.

If you think Kyrie is a bad leader, then fine. But his being open to being recruited by another team isn’t something that adds up to him being a bad leader. The whole concept of free agency is that players have a choice.
 

[Ogaju]

Is it really too much to ask for a player that actually wants to play for your team? Nothing about what Kyrie Irving has done since the Cs got bounced says he wants to play for the Cs - nothing!

A leader does not behave this way.

A leader will be busy recruiting for his own team, and not be open to being recruited by other teams.

The double standards are real!

I guess KD isn’t a real leader then. So if he’s available, would you say no? Going back in time a bit, would you have taken Wade over Lebron in their primes since Wade recruited for his team but Lebron moved to Miami? Do you think Horford is a poor leader?

KD? Name the team he has led. Everyone knows Dubs belong to Steph, Klay and Dray. KD is just along for the ride. If it wasnt so Dray would not have called him out to his face. He is not a leader of the dubs. A leader does not sign 1 year deals an opportunist does.

If KD were available I would take him with open arms, as I would Kyrie, that does not make either of them a leader. Every player has his role. Neither of these two would I hand the leadership keys.

I will take Wade and Lebron in their primes, LeBron over Wade, he is and was the better player. Wade would lead, because even Lebron recognizes Wade's leadership.

Any other questions?

KD led the Thunder. Then he left them, which was cruel. For a rival team, which was cruel. If he goes here, you thjnk he won’t be the leader?

Lebron led the Cavs. Even won a championship that 2nd time. You’re right that Lebron recognized Wade but Wade deferred to Lebron, which I guess makes him a good leader too. Besides, a team can have multiple leaders (see your example above with steph, klay and dray).

Also, what about Horford? Is he a poor leader?

Also, let me hit u with another player: Steve Nash. Was he a poor leader?

Double standards

My bad, I forgot the most important question. Horford leads with example. He is a good leader. Steve Nash was a good leader.  KD did not lead the Thunder. Westbrook led and leads the Thunder.

And yet Horford and Nash were open to being recruited by other teams.

If you think Kyrie is a bad leader, then fine. But his being open to being recruited by another team isn’t something that adds up to him being a bad leader. The whole concept of free agency is that players have a choice.

I did not say Kyrie is a bad leader. I do not think he is a team leader at all.

By the way, Horford nine years on the Hawks, Nash 16 years with the Suns.

[Csfan1984]

When I saw "Horford leads by example". I thought no wonder why so many guys disappear at times it's just following Horford.

Sorry I know it's been Horford's best year with us but its what came to mind.