The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[PAOBoston]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

Turned out well for Golden State 🤔
Then the Spurs were “homegrown” to think they did alright

[BringToughnessBack]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

16 out of the last 19 NBA champions had homegrown super stars leading the way. From Spurs to Lakers to Warriors to even the Cavs and Pistons. We will be fine either way and 2021 is not that far away if we have to wait a few more years to add to our equation.

The Celtics in 08 and Lebron Wade mixture were exceptions to the rule.

[PAOBoston]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

Turned out well for Golden State 🤔
Then the Spurs were “homegrown” to think they did alright

Sure. It *might* work. It’s likely that it won’t though building that way.

I’m also not sure how keen fans are in waiting another 4-5 years for a rebuild because that’s what is going to happen if Irving  leaves and Horford get traded/opts out.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

Turned out well for Golden State 🤔
Then the Spurs were “homegrown” to think they did alright

Sure. It *might* work. It’s likely that it won’t though building that way.

I’m also not sure how keen fans are in waiting another 4-5 years for a rebuild because that’s what is going to happen if Irving  leaves and Horford get traded/opts out.

I mean the only difference is our homegrown has ALREADY MADE KT TO GAME 7 in the ECF. Wake up man lol

[Neurotic Guy]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

Maybe one question that needs to be asked is, does Ainge want to go this route?

While I’m not 100% sure that you’ve got the right trade, conceptually this may be the only feasible way to keep Kyrie and get AD.  Kyrie has to at least hear the Celtics out with potentially 50M extra on the line for staying.  Danny’s “sell” could essentially be that they’d go all in on building around KI and AD — that they’d look to use the young talent as trade bait for AD AND to land other veteran talent. KI and AD would have a hand in recruitment (MLE) and would have input re: trade acquisitions.

Frankly, as much as I don’t particularly like my own post here, I think appealing to KIs ego while maximizing his bank account may ultimately put the C’s in play as contenders over the next 5 years.

[Celtics4ever]

People are in denial in this poll.

[Jiri Welsch]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

[PAOBoston]

Even though I've just about checked out on any hope of Kyrie coming back, I still think there's a slim possibility.

If Ainge were to still end up landing AD by offering Hayward, Brown and Tatum, I think Kyrie can be talked into coming back.

He'll probably only agree to a 1 +1 deal. HOWEVER, by having dealt 3 contracts to get AD and if Horford can restructure his deal, we would be in a very good position to re-sign both Ky and AD in the summer of 2020.

I'd also think the competition wouldn't be as stiff because the Knicks, Nets, Lakers and Clippers will all hopefully use up their existing cap space this summer.

It's a HUGE risk, but one I'm willing to take.

In this instance, you'd still have Smart and the Celts would probably re-sign Morris to be the starting SF. Rozier would go bye-bye. Baynes would come back for 1 more year and the rest of the roster is filled out with vet minimum players, players we draft this summer, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, Wannamaker, etc.

That's an insane overpay

Yes and no. I look at it as addition by subtraction. We rid ourselves of the Hayward albatross and the upcoming increases in Brown and Tatum's contracts. Also, I don't think Kyrie and Hayward had much chemistry on the court. If I had to guess, Kyrie would much rather come back if his teammates were Smart, Morris, Horford and AD as opposed to Hayward, Brown and Terry Rozier. Also, the hope would be you wouldn't have to give up as many draft picks (maybe just the Memphis one) and perhaps take back the Solomon Hill contract. Which means, we could keep all 3 for our 1st rounders this summer for roster filler. I would think this would get Griffin's attention. The competition for Davis is going to be stiff as I think they'll be MANY teams trying to vie for his services.

Ive come to realize that this is far too big of a gamble for a team I truly don’t even want. The most entertaining team to me was the ones where Brad Stevens was the star. There were obvious moments where you can see the team just decided to do their own things a lot. This also happened in the playoffs last year so it’s not completely Kyries fault.

What I will say is, I’ve been at peace with Kyrie leaving. Once I realized how truly unhappy I was with the team the whole year but was just in denial, opened my eyes. As incredible of a talent Kyrie is, it really is kind of ridiculous for anyone to think the young guys should have to sacrifice so much so early. These guys are still trying to find out what they can do at such a young age how are you going to ask them to sacrifice? Of all thing Kyrie as the veteran and obviously must skilled player should of been scouting his team to see what he needed to sacrifice in order to have the players around him be more effective.

My biggest fear was giving Kyrie a 5 year max knowing how he was not healthy to the development of the players whom were already here.

Catering to young players over established players is s recipe for disaster. There’s a good chance Tatum and Brown are what they are. There’s a reason why in the NBA, teams cater to star players so much. It’s because they drive your success. I’m on the trade the young guys for established talent and surround that talent with veteran role players train.

Turned out well for Golden State 🤔
Then the Spurs were “homegrown” to think they did alright

Sure. It *might* work. It’s likely that it won’t though building that way.

I’m also not sure how keen fans are in waiting another 4-5 years for a rebuild because that’s what is going to happen if Irving  leaves and Horford get traded/opts out.

I mean the only difference is our homegrown has ALREADY MADE KT TO GAME 7 in the ECF. Wake up man lol

Getting to game 7 of ECF two years ago in a weak East means nothing at this point considering the Cs were a 5 seed this year and got absolutely smoked by the Bucks. I think it’s you that needs to wake up. If Irving and Horford leave, this team is a borderline playoff team next year.

[PAOBoston]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

[Neurotic Guy]

People are in denial in this poll.

51% think he’s leaving according to the poll.   That may not be quite right — I think it’s more like 80% chance he leaves. But I wouldn’t call it denial. Danny has been pretty persuasive at times and I think that gives the C’s a somewhat realistic shot. 

[Jiri Welsch]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

Here’s my problem: in a vacuum it makes sense that Kyrie should stay. The Celtics retain their most talented player from last year, and he seemingly buys into the team more.

But in reality the case of Kyrie isn’t so simple. He’s mercurial and not a “Batman” (as Perk said). Most fans cheer for this team because it’s fun to watch basketball and the Celtics always compete. If that’s your reason to be a fan—and you aren’t going to have a mental breakdown if they aren’t a “contender”—Kyrie isn’t a guy you want on the team.

[PAOBoston]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

Here’s my problem: in a vacuum it makes sense that Kyrie should stay. The Celtics retain their most talented player from last year, and he seemingly buys into the team more.

But in reality the case of Kyrie isn’t so simple. He’s mercurial and not a “Batman” (as Perk said). Most fans cheer for this team because it’s fun to watch basketball and the Celtics always compete. If that’s your reason to be a fan—and you aren’t going to have a mental breakdown if they aren’t a “contender”—Kyrie isn’t a guy you want on the team.

Pretty much. And that feeling will likely wear off after a year when they see the team  just get lambasted in the playoffs similar to how it wore off early in the Stevens era when those plucky teams got bounced early.

[PhoSita]

People are in denial in this poll.

This whole board has been in denial since the season ended.

The best part is everyone thinks he’s staying per the poll but the majority of the comments are negative and geared towards him leaving.

Here’s my problem: in a vacuum it makes sense that Kyrie should stay. The Celtics retain their most talented player from last year, and he seemingly buys into the team more.

But in reality the case of Kyrie isn’t so simple. He’s mercurial and not a “Batman” (as Perk said). Most fans cheer for this team because it’s fun to watch basketball and the Celtics always compete. If that’s your reason to be a fan—and you aren’t going to have a mental breakdown if they aren’t a “contender”—Kyrie isn’t a guy you want on the team.

I just want to say I love the way you articulated this.  Really concise and accurate.

[Celtics4ever]

I will be here lose or win...