The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[indeedproceed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZUG5bmfTgE&feature=youtu.be

[celticsclay]

Mods can we lock this?

[Tr1boy]

The guy would risk his reputation and market value to get back at a small but vocal percentage of Celtics fans?

Kyrie Truthers unite!

Fingerlake is probably still in disbelief of how much Irving sukked the last 3 games

[rondofan1255]

I get people having their own opinion of Kyrie, I also think its weird that for holding Marcus in such high respect so many assume he's bsing and not telling the truth.

No one really knows for sure. Even if Marcus were to have issues with other teammates, airing any of it out during interviews is bad PR imo.

Either way, it's a bad look to throw others under the bus like Rozier did postgame with the media.  The reactions to Rozier's comments have been overall negative. Now going into RFA, the disgruntled selfish teammate and locker room cancer narrative for Rozier will be everywhere. I saw his comments being talked about on ESPN the night of the loss. I don't remember most of what Rozier said about his teammates during the season, but iirc he said the right things publicly until things came to a boil after the MIL defeat. If he hadn't been, threads here would have been made blasting him (see: Jaylen Brown or Kyrie).

[wiley]

Let's look at Russel Westrbrook as a comparison to Kyrie. 

Westbrook is half God (MVP, Triple Double King), half post season problem/detriment to winning as game gets close near end.  Kyrie may not be as egregious as Westbrook at end game management (we can assume he'll be less tunnel vision than Westbrook), but he has yet to prove himself in that regard, and meanwhile is not as good as Westbrook in other areas, though younger.  How do we know that as a leader he is not going to be a high assist, then high turnover performer late in games?   His experience with Lebron as leader tells us very little in that regard.  This post season, he has shown a mix of team ball, good passing and assist numbers, combined with overly fancy moves, outrageous level of difficulty shots, and frequent and poorly timed turnovers.  Westbrook's on court game is a split personality, and so far, in important games, so is Kyrie's. 

Westbrook, who also has very high assist numbers, higher than Kyrie's, come under an avalanche of criticism every post season for poor game management and tunnel vision at the end of games.  Meanwhile, Russ, whom I assume most Celtic fans are not interested in, adds more in terms of getting to the rim, free throws, rebounds, size and physicality. 

Two camps: 
1. Kyrie is young and will improve his leadership, game management.
2. Kyrie is who he is, and will not improve his leadership, game management.

For me, combining the media related issues with the on court late game Westbrookism =
1.  Do not sign
2.  Sign in order to trade

[Monkhouse]

I'm sorry, but what is your point?

Are you comparing the two, or whether we should do a S&T for Westbrook via Kyrie?

[celticsclay]

What is this?

[Monkhouse]

What is this?

Yeah I'm confused also lol.

[RJ87]

I get people having their own opinion of Kyrie, I also think its weird that for holding Marcus in such high respect so many assume he's bsing and not telling the truth.

No one really knows for sure. Even if Marcus were to have issues with other teammates, airing any of it out during interviews is bad PR imo.

Either way, it's a bad look to throw others under the bus like Rozier did postgame with the media.  The reactions to Rozier's comments have been overall negative. Now going into RFA, the disgruntled selfish teammate and locker room cancer narrative for Rozier will be everywhere. I saw his comments being talked about on ESPN the night of the loss. I don't remember most of what Rozier said about his teammates during the season, but iirc he said the right things publicly until things came to a boil after the MIL defeat. If he hadn't been, threads here would have been made blasting him (see: Jaylen Brown or Kyrie).

As I said earlier in the thread, Marcus has sided with Kyrie before. After Young Guy-Gate, Marcus backed Kyrie saying, "he's right and if you take offense, you should look in the mirror."

[byennie]

Obviously a lot of this is speculation, but if the reality here is that:

1) Kyrie isn't a great leader, but he's not a trouble maker either
2) Rozier and Tatum are immature and it makes everything worse
3) Hayward has been deferring all year and just needs a clear green light
4) Smart "gets it" and sides with the vets
5) Horford just stays out of it
6) Brown has had his moments, but he works hard and gets veteran respect

... then what are the odds we're trading Tatum and every draft pick possible for Davis, and trying to re-sign Kyrie with Rozier & Tatum gone?

Irving/ Smart/ Brown/ Hayward/ Horford/ Davis/ Baynes

Looks like a much more mature core, given the above.

[Monkhouse]

Obviously a lot of this is speculation, but if the reality here is that:

1) Kyrie isn't a great leader, but he's not a trouble maker either
2) Rozier and Tatum are immature and it makes everything worse
3) Hayward has been deferring all year and just needs a clear green light
4) Smart "gets it" and sides with the vets
5) Horford just stays out of it
6) Brown has had his moments, but he works hard and gets veteran respect

... then what are the odds we're trading Tatum and every draft pick possible for Davis, and trying to re-sign Kyrie with Rozier & Tatum gone?

Irving/ Smart/ Brown/ Hayward/ Horford/ Davis/ Baynes

Looks like a much more mature core, given the above.

I agree, makes plausible sense. TP as usual byennie!

I just want to add onto your point. Kyrie mentioned that he wanted 14-15 year vet, and even though it was possibly hinted at Melo, the insinuation behind that comment was directed in the sense that they needed more 'veteran,' leadership.

"I think it just comes with, just some experience," Irving said. "Looking at this locker room, me being in my eighth year and being a 'veteran' as well as Al and Baynes. Right now I think it would be nice if we had someone that was a 15-year vet, a 14-year vet that could kind of help us race along the regular season and understand it's a long marathon rather than just a full-on sprint, when you want to play, when you want to do what you want to do. It's all about attitude and effort. That's all it is."

Irving thinks the 1-4 stretch was necessary to remind the Celtics how difficult it is to win in the NBA.

"We needed this," Irving said. "We're not as good as we think we are. I said it at the beginning of the season. The excitement is done. It's real basketball now, so it's not just about the potential of the team or where we'll be at the end of the season. It's right now and taking care of what presently is in front of us. We have challenges. We have barriers to get over as a team and individually. I'm going to be the most patient out of everyone. I'm not going to get too frazzled, too high or too low or stuff like that. It's a long season. I just understand that for us to be special we just have to get through some challenges."

[RJ87]

Obviously a lot of this is speculation, but if the reality here is that:

1) Kyrie isn't a great leader, but he's not a trouble maker either
2) Rozier and Tatum are immature and it makes everything worse
3) Hayward has been deferring all year and just needs a clear green light
4) Smart "gets it" and sides with the vets
5) Horford just stays out of it
6) Brown has had his moments, but he works hard and gets veteran respect

... then what are the odds we're trading Tatum and every draft pick possible for Davis, and trying to re-sign Kyrie with Rozier & Tatum gone?

Irving/ Smart/ Brown/ Hayward/ Horford/ Davis/ Baynes

Looks like a much more mature core, given the above.

I agree, makes plausible sense. TP as usual byennie!

I just want to add onto your point. Kyrie mentioned that he wanted 14-15 year vet, and even though it was possibly hinted at Melo, the insinuation behind that comment was directed in the sense that they needed more 'veteran,' leadership.

"I think it just comes with, just some experience," Irving said. "Looking at this locker room, me being in my eighth year and being a 'veteran' as well as Al and Baynes. Right now I think it would be nice if we had someone that was a 15-year vet, a 14-year vet that could kind of help us race along the regular season and understand it's a long marathon rather than just a full-on sprint, when you want to play, when you want to do what you want to do. It's all about attitude and effort. That's all it is."

Irving thinks the 1-4 stretch was necessary to remind the Celtics how difficult it is to win in the NBA.

"We needed this," Irving said. "We're not as good as we think we are. I said it at the beginning of the season. The excitement is done. It's real basketball now, so it's not just about the potential of the team or where we'll be at the end of the season. It's right now and taking care of what presently is in front of us. We have challenges. We have barriers to get over as a team and individually. I'm going to be the most patient out of everyone. I'm not going to get too frazzled, too high or too low or stuff like that. It's a long season. I just understand that for us to be special we just have to get through some challenges."

People thought he was talking about Melo? I always thought he was talking about a Channing Frye or Jose Calderon type of player.

[Monkhouse]

Obviously a lot of this is speculation, but if the reality here is that:

1) Kyrie isn't a great leader, but he's not a trouble maker either
2) Rozier and Tatum are immature and it makes everything worse
3) Hayward has been deferring all year and just needs a clear green light
4) Smart "gets it" and sides with the vets
5) Horford just stays out of it
6) Brown has had his moments, but he works hard and gets veteran respect

... then what are the odds we're trading Tatum and every draft pick possible for Davis, and trying to re-sign Kyrie with Rozier & Tatum gone?

Irving/ Smart/ Brown/ Hayward/ Horford/ Davis/ Baynes

Looks like a much more mature core, given the above.

I agree, makes plausible sense. TP as usual byennie!

I just want to add onto your point. Kyrie mentioned that he wanted 14-15 year vet, and even though it was possibly hinted at Melo, the insinuation behind that comment was directed in the sense that they needed more 'veteran,' leadership.

"I think it just comes with, just some experience," Irving said. "Looking at this locker room, me being in my eighth year and being a 'veteran' as well as Al and Baynes. Right now I think it would be nice if we had someone that was a 15-year vet, a 14-year vet that could kind of help us race along the regular season and understand it's a long marathon rather than just a full-on sprint, when you want to play, when you want to do what you want to do. It's all about attitude and effort. That's all it is."

Irving thinks the 1-4 stretch was necessary to remind the Celtics how difficult it is to win in the NBA.

"We needed this," Irving said. "We're not as good as we think we are. I said it at the beginning of the season. The excitement is done. It's real basketball now, so it's not just about the potential of the team or where we'll be at the end of the season. It's right now and taking care of what presently is in front of us. We have challenges. We have barriers to get over as a team and individually. I'm going to be the most patient out of everyone. I'm not going to get too frazzled, too high or too low or stuff like that. It's a long season. I just understand that for us to be special we just have to get through some challenges."

People thought he was talking about Melo? I always thought he was talking about a Channing Frye or Jose Calderon type of player.

Melo, Channing Frye, Richard Jefferson, or even James Jones.

I mean it could've literally been anybody. People were even angling for Pierce to come back from retirement lol.

[KGs Knee]

I get people having their own opinion of Kyrie, I also think its weird that for holding Marcus in such high respect so many assume he's bsing and not telling the truth.

No one really knows for sure. Even if Marcus were to have issues with other teammates, airing any of it out during interviews is bad PR imo.

Either way, it's a bad look to throw others under the bus like Rozier did postgame with the media.  The reactions to Rozier's comments have been overall negative. Now going into RFA, the disgruntled selfish teammate and locker room cancer narrative for Rozier will be everywhere. I saw his comments being talked about on ESPN the night of the loss. I don't remember most of what Rozier said about his teammates during the season, but iirc he said the right things publicly until things came to a boil after the MIL defeat. If he hadn't been, threads here would have been made blasting him (see: Jaylen Brown or Kyrie).

As I said earlier in the thread, Marcus has sided with Kyrie before. After Young Guy-Gate, Marcus backed Kyrie saying, "he's right and if you take offense, you should look in the mirror."

This is such a critically important piece of the puzzle so many conveniently ignore.

If 'Mr lockerroom good guy' is going to vouch for you, I'm going to take him at his word.  What Smart says here caries a lot of weight.

Smart saw what was up and said what needed to be said.  Shame on the media for portraying this situation as something other than what it was because it made for sensational headlines and gave them a way to stick it to Kyrie for not getting along well with them.

[wiley]

will have to explain later....at work now.  Sorry for confusion.