The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[gouki88]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

Exactly! Which is why it makes too much sense for Smart and Tatum to be the two main outgoing pieces in a potential AD trade. With a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis, you have balance and clearly defined roles (as you mentioned.)

Trust me, you wouldn't want to trade defensive cogs on a contender. It didn't worked back then, it clearly won't work now. AD is a premier talent but the league is now perimeter oriented. Back with the KG trade, KG specifically requested that Rondo should stay because he like how fierce young Rondo was. And Tony Allen were also retained and provided us a defensive tenacity on what's already a deep defensive team.

I'm not saying don't trade for AD, but you would want to keep impact players on your team. AB was traded because he can't stay healthy. Smart was healthy for majority of the season. Crowder was traded because he doesn't have much impact and is unhappy with his future roles.

All fell apart when James Posey, another scrappy player left for another team. Talent is nice, but you would prefer to retain scrappy, hard-nosed glue guys in a contending team. So far the Bucks series showed that we needed toughness when things aren't going our way and Smart have provided that for past few years.

Brown has shown he has that toughness and can be an impact defensive player. And Davis is a first team All-NBA type defender. Add Horford's exceptional 2nd team All-Defense quality defense and Hayward's better than average defense and the starters will most likely be a league best two way unit.

And Tatum is not a defensive cog. If anything, this past year, Tatum has regressed into our poorest starting defender as Kyrie's defense is much, much better and Tatum took a clear step backwards on that end.

Agree 100%. Horford and Davis would be a comically good defensive duo as they can both do it all. Hayward is a solid defender, and is quite good at reading offences.
Brown is getting to borderline elite wing defence, and he constantly steps up in the big games. Despite what most would say is a considerable gap in terms of offensive skill between Tatum and Brown, Brown wills his way into games and produces more than Tatum.

Plus, Kyrie has gotten better at defence. Particularly in terms of taking charges and picking passes. Baynes & Semi off the bench is solid too. I would like if Semi got more of a chance going forward. His only offensive game is 3’s but I’m a huge fan of his defence.

[seancally]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

On that team who stops anybody? Better yet, who slows anyone down?

That team will be much worse, and I can't wait for it to happen and  becomes obvious to anyone watching.

That is a ludicrous take. Davis is a monster. Horford is a monster. Brown can become a monster. Hayward is fine... Kyrie is kyrie. Of course the team would play good defense.

[gpap]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

Exactly! Which is why it makes too much sense for Smart and Tatum to be the two main outgoing pieces in a potential AD trade. With a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis, you have balance and clearly defined roles (as you mentioned.)

Trust me, you wouldn't want to trade defensive cogs on a contender. It didn't worked back then, it clearly won't work now. AD is a premier talent but the league is now perimeter oriented. Back with the KG trade, KG specifically requested that Rondo should stay because he like how fierce young Rondo was. And Tony Allen were also retained and provided us a defensive tenacity on what's already a deep defensive team.

I'm not saying don't trade for AD, but you would want to keep impact players on your team. AB was traded because he can't stay healthy. Smart was healthy for majority of the season. Crowder was traded because he doesn't have much impact and is unhappy with his future roles.

All fell apart when James Posey, another scrappy player left for another team. Talent is nice, but you would prefer to retain scrappy, hard-nosed glue guys in a contending team. So far the Bucks series showed that we needed toughness when things aren't going our way and Smart have provided that for past few years.

With all due respect to Marcus Smart, I'm pretty sure we'd able to survive just fine without him if we have the starting lineup mentioned above.

[IDreamCeltics]

I would just be happy if Kyrie would keep his mouth shut and dribble the ball less - Isaiah Thomas was not seen as the team leader when he was here - just as our most explosive scorer. Why can't Irving be happy being a great scoring guard in the league, an all-star and help a team win multiple titles, the Boston Celtics no less. That would be enough to get your #11 retired. Problem is, Kyrie Irving, by nature, is a restless soul. He is always going to find discontent in his current circumstance, for whatever reason that is. He gets in his own way.

You do realize Isaiah Thomas's big mouth, and backing the 'Brinks Truck,' comments inevitably led to his departure from the Celtics?

I think it had more to do with the Celtics learning he had a major injury to his hip - that and the subsequent mismanagement of the injury by the training staff.

[zeitgeist49]

Many Celtic fans are enamored by Kyrie's incredible shot making and ball handling. He's fun to watch. But at the end of the day, it doesn't necessarily win ball games. My criticism of Kyrie is he often turns the ball over in critical situations and doesn't trust his teammates enough. It seems the only time he passes to teammates is when he drives to the basket, nothing is there for him and he passes it back out for others to shoot 3's. Kyrie should focus more on being a facilitator and being a more creative passer. Kyrie seems to trust Horford much more than he does Tatum, Brown, Haywood and others.  And his leadership skills are suspect. Instead of calling out team mates in public, he should be leading by example and/or holding private discussions with team mates. Some fans minimize the importance of team chemistry. I don't believe it's a coincidence the Celts over-achieved without Kyrie and have under-achieved with Kyrie. I, for one, wouldn't be terribly upset if Irving left when he becomes a FA.   

[Rosco917]

Curry has Durant AND Thompson.

The "Beard" had Paul.

Embiid has Jimmy Butler.

Kawhi has Siakam and a solid team of veterans.

Each "star" has someone to divert the attention away from them at one time or another.

Kyrie has Zilch. Tatum on and off, mostly off, Hayward on and off, mostly off, Horford (not really his game) Brown more and more.

Team up Kyrie with a sidekick that he trusts and has faith in. Give him enough rope and see how he deals with it.

[Moranis]

Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.

The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


I agree that it would be ideal, and would make more sense, if Horford and Smart were the leaders in the locker room and on the court.  It would be ideal if the media treated them as such.  The team would be better off if the younger players tried to emulate Horford and/or Smart rather than Kyrie or Morris.


Unfortunately, that's not what has happened.  For better or worse, the most famous, highest scoring guy on your team is going to tend to be viewed and treated as the leader. 

Yes, Kyrie is not a natural leader and clearly has a lot of work to do in that area. That shouldn't be an excuse for him.  Rather, it means that currently he's not as well equipped to be the lead guy on a good team as we hoped.

I never said it should be an excuse for him. Rather, I said he hasn't been a good leader but that I don't understand why there's a rush to write him off as we've seen other players lack in that area grow into the role.

And again, there's a complete lack of accountability for other guys on the roster that's odd. The best teams, the ones we should be trying to emulate, haven't been led solely by one guy. GSW has Curry and Draymond, the Spurs teams had Timmy/Manu/Parker - even as Kawhi emerged as the team's best player. Mavs had Dirk and Terry. Even the Heatles had Wade and Bron, and to some extent, Bosh.

Kyrie has been in the league for 8 years.  He is who is at this point.  He isn't going to change and all of a sudden morph into the leader we want him to be.  That quite simply has never been his personality and it never will be.  And speaking of that, he is a pretty strange dude and always has been.  His odd world views aren't the easiest to get along with.  Couple that with his tremendous ego (and I'm not saying that is a bad thing in and of itself), and Kyrie quite simply shouldn't be the face of a franchise for his personality (let alone his actual game which isn't good enough).  Irving is at his best when he has someone as good or better than him next to him.  A person to take the spot light off, but that also recognizes that Irving can be the best closer in the game when he is on.  That is why him and James worked so well on the court and why I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Irving in a Lakers uniform next year.

I get you hate the guy, but to declare the person you are in your mid-20s is who you're always going to be is incredibly short-sighted and wrong.

I would just be happy if Kyrie would keep his mouth shut and dribble the ball less - Isaiah Thomas was not seen as the team leader when he was here - just as our most explosive scorer.

Ah. The "shut up and dribble" spiel. But even IT didn't keep his mouth shut, he had his share of quotable moments, too. Including him calling out the coaching staff and the rotations ("We can't be experimenting in game 63"), and saying other guys had to step up and make shots.

I don't hate Kyrie at all, but I fully recognize his many flaws and have never overrated his ability like many on this board have. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Curry has Durant AND Thompson.

The "Beard" had Paul.

Embiid has Jimmy Butler.

Kawhi has Siakam and a solid team of veterans.

Each "star" has someone to divert the attention away from them at one time or another.

Kyrie has Zilch. Tatum on and off, mostly off, Hayward on and off, mostly off, Horford (not really his game) Brown more and more.

Team up Kyrie with a sidekick that he trusts and has faith in. Give him enough rope and see how he deals with it.

i like this .  What you say n is Kyrie needs another REAL star .  Al is old ,  and Hayward is not play n like a star .   Tatum and Brown are not  consistent 20 pt per game.  .   Kyrie needs STAR help. 

[bopna]

Enter Anthony Davis...

[cltc5]

What’s sad is Tatum and rozier not showing up.  For all the boo hoping about what they did last year and for them not to be better is shameful.

[mctyson]

Kyrie's ugly G2 performance swung the series...if the Bucks had to grind for that win they come into Boston feeling different.

[RJ87]

Kyrie's ugly G2 performance swung the series...if the Bucks had to grind for that win they come into Boston feeling different.

Because his other teammates really showed up in that game.

[Phantom255x]

Kyrie's ugly G2 performance swung the series...if the Bucks had to grind for that win they come into Boston feeling different.

Because his other teammates really showed up in that game.

Lol right? If it weren't for Kyrie we're down 3-0 in this series and probably blown out every game by 25+. Are people actually seeing Tatum, Rozier, etc. doing a lot of good things this series?? 

[RJ87]

Kyrie's ugly G2 performance swung the series...if the Bucks had to grind for that win they come into Boston feeling different.

Because his other teammates really showed up in that game.

Lol right? If it weren't for Kyrie we're down 3-0 in this series and probably blown out every game by 25+. Are people seeing Tatum, Rozier, etc. doing a lot of good things this series?? 

And it's not even about absolving him of blame. He didn't shoot well that game at all, but I don't get the need to blame ONE guy when literally the entire team - except Marcus Morris - pulls a no-show.

[LarBrd33]

I don’t think it will play out like this but there’s a path here where Kyrie jumps ship, Boston misses the playoffs without him, and fans with opinions like this realize what an oopsie they made.

Kudos to Kyrie for taking this 1-star team as far as he has.   He took them further than Paul George took the Thunder despite having Russell Westbrook as a sidekick.