Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.

[Emmette Bryant]

If Hinkie was so smart, why didn't the Sixers draft better players?

Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum > Okafor, Noel, Simmons, Embiid

He forgot to draft a wing.

[celticsclay]

Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.

Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).

I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.

Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.

I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).

Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

I was rounding up😄

I couldn't remember where I had seen these saric numbers so tp for this being bumped. Genuinely curious if people are watching saric this series and somehow still have the ludicrous take of him averaging 18.8 and 4 and being an all star? Philly fans are convinced he would be best in a 6th man role and that his lack of athleticism has been exposed. 

[Eddie20]

I really hope Moranis doesn't still think Saric would average 20, 9, and 5.

[KGs Knee]

I ain't impressed with the Sixers at all. We're spanking them with our JV team. What do those chumps think is gonna happen when we're fully healthy?

Sixers fans might as well go crawl back under their rock.

[footey]

Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.

if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Nah, they would have sat Porzingis for the season  so that his broken toe nail could heal.

You seriously can’t believe they don’t regret taking Porzingis over Okafor.

[kgwannabe]

I wonder how much impact the constant losing has had on the 76ers young players. The Celts are just more focused with their execution. I don't think the talent is inferior, but Simmons and Embiid are not used to high level execution like the Celts are. Embiid has an excuse; he's coming back from injury, so maybe his lack of fitness and focus is excusable. But Simmons just hasn't exhibited a world class "compete level" whereas the Celtics young players are more focused/consistent/competitive. They aren't more talented, just more committed to doing the things that lead to winning.

#Don'ttrusttheprocess....

[footey]

I mean imagine if they drafted Tatum instead of Fultz.

Simmons
Covington
Taytum
Saric
Embid
------------
Redick


Plus they would still get upcoming picks smdh

That would have been really sly of them, if they pretended like they wanted Fultz only to draft Tatum #1. We probably would have thought we killed that trade at the time, only to be regretting it now.

That would never happen.  Ainge wanted Tatum and would never have agreed to the deal if Colangelo wasn't committed to taking Fultz.  If Colangelo had lied about it, he'd be done as a GM.  No one would trust him.

except Colangelo had no reason to tell Ainge who he would draft and almost certainly did not.

if this is true, would this have to be in writing somehow? like, we will deal #1 for your #3 as long as Philly HAVE to take Fultz with the #1 and hope LA takes Ball at 2?

I feel deals like this usually have to have some sort of agreement between the two parties right?

Not at all.  There is absolutely no reason for Philly to tell Boston who they are going to draft.  None at all.  Now I'm sure Ainge felt pretty confident that Philly was going to take Fultz, but there is no way Colangelo would tell Ainge that.

No basis for making this claim unless there is something in the CBA that prohibits building such a condition into the trade agreement. Would be interesting to see what in fact is agreed upon.

[mqtcelticsfan]

I wonder how much impact the constant losing has had on the 76ers young players. The Celts are just more focused with their execution. I don't think the talent is inferior, but Simmons and Embiid are not used to high level execution like the Celts are. Embiid has an excuse; he's coming back from injury, so maybe his lack of fitness and focus is excusable. But Simmons just hasn't exhibited a world class "compete level" whereas the Celtics young players are more focused/consistent/competitive. They aren't more talented, just more committed to doing the things that lead to winning.

#Don'ttrusttheprocess....

Zero impact. Simmons isn't having a bad series because the Sixers tanked. He's having a bad series because he's not yet a complete offensive player and has been beaten by the game plan.

[BitterJim]

Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.

Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).

I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.

Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.

I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).

Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

I was rounding up

I couldn't remember where I had seen these saric numbers so tp for this being bumped. Genuinely curious if people are watching saric this series and somehow still have the ludicrous take of him averaging 18.8 and 4 and being an all star? Philly fans are convinced he would be best in a 6th man role and that his lack of athleticism has been exposed.

Way to just ignore Saric's best attribute: he is absolutely elite at going over people's backs and somehow not realising that it's a foul

Honestly, it's like he's new to the game, but he's been a pro for 9 years

[rondofan1255]

Covington has been more disappoint than Saric IMO, considering his contract.

[cman88]

Not sure it takes a genius to say "lets be as bad as possible and get top picks each year!" but so far the sixers have whiffed on many of their top picks.

Celtics draft haul - Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Smart vs. Simmons, Embiid, Okafor, Fultz

All of the celtics picks are contributing to team wins. and Tatum/Brown look like potential all-stars. of the sixers haul. one guy cant get on the court, okafor is already gone. and Simmons/Embiid look like potential all-stars.

but it remains to be seen if you can build a championship team if your 2 best players are a big man  and a Point guard who cant shoot/hit free throws.

if you add in Noel/Michael carter williams then the sixers are 2 for 6 in hitting on the draft lottery....and the remainder of their picks arent even with the team/on the court as roleplayers. and they had higher picks than the celtics.

[kgwannabe]

I don't think it's zero impact. Simmons has be an incomplete player all year and has don'e well. He has been uneven this series, which is in part due to his limitations, but also due to his uneven focus and effort. That's not from offensive limitations, that's just not understanding what it takes to win at this level. The question is whether this is a permanent problem or part of a learning process. Regardless, the Celtics young players already understand.

[LarBrd33]

He wasn’t a genius but he made some quality trades and Philly’s plan to bottom out over multiple years made it statistically probable they would end up with a star.   They hit home runs on 2 out of 3 picks and have found themselves with arguably their best season in nearly 20 years in their first year together.  It was absolutely a success.  They changed the lotto rules for a reason 

[smokeablount]

contending

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...

Haha. That’s all this dude has for ammunition. Rough couple of weeks for the pessimists / crybabies.

[smokeablount]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

This certainly seems less silly by the day as both teams are now up 3-1 with the Jazz playing a superior opponent in the first round. Look for the Jazz to give Houston some trouble if they reach the second round as their defense is very legit. Gobert is a true difference maker.

No Clay, wrong, it’s silly to compare Philly and Utah.

Utah won a game in the second round on the road against the #1 seed without their point guard. Philly will be lucky to win a second round game at all while fully healthy and getting all the calls.