Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.

[byennie]

Hinkie may be a smart guy, but extreme tanking for #1 picks isn't exactly rocket science. He got Simmons and Embiid basically as planned, minus all the injuries. The question is can they turn those two guys & change into a real contender?

If they can attract another star, a better coach and get some experience, maybe. But they've only really accomplished step #1: get two #1 overall guys on your squad at once. That puts them a couple steps behind teams like Golden State or Houston that have multiple stars *and* everything else, or Boston that's stacked top to bottom as an organization. And that still assumes improvement, because Simmons and Embiid as talented as they are, are not on the level of a Harden, Durant, Curry, LeBron etc that know how to win games.

[Boris Badenov]

It'll be interesting to see how they do as a FA draw this summer. Losing to us in 4-5 games certainly won't help the case.

[Donoghus]

It'll be interesting to see how they do as a FA draw this summer. Losing to us in 4-5 games certainly won't help the case.

I don't think it'll hurt much either.  All it takes is convincing one guy that he's the missing piece to put them over the top.   Philly is certainly on the rise and a high profile team. 

I don't think drawing FAs will be an issue.

[Moranis]

It'll be interesting to see how they do as a FA draw this summer. Losing to us in 4-5 games certainly won't help the case.

I don't think it'll hurt much either.  All it takes is convincing one guy that he's the missing piece to put them over the top.   Philly is certainly on the rise and a high profile team. 

I don't think drawing FAs will be an issue.

I am more interested to see if they swing a trade for someone like Leonard, or just decide to run it back (assuming they don't land James) and try for Klay Thompson the following summer.  With the Colangelos running the show I can totally see the Sixers wasting their cap space on mid-tier players this summer and blow a shot at Klay. 

[Boris Badenov]

It'll be interesting to see how they do as a FA draw this summer. Losing to us in 4-5 games certainly won't help the case.

I don't think it'll hurt much either.  All it takes is convincing one guy that he's the missing piece to put them over the top.   Philly is certainly on the rise and a high profile team. 

I don't think drawing FAs will be an issue.

I am more interested to see if they swing a trade for someone like Leonard, or just decide to run it back (assuming they don't land James) and try for Klay Thompson the following summer.  With the Colangelos running the show I can totally see the Sixers wasting their cap space on mid-tier players this summer and blow a shot at Klay.

They need to decide what to do with Reddick. He fits, for sure. But he will want what, $3/60?

[Big333223]

It'll be interesting to see how they do as a FA draw this summer. Losing to us in 4-5 games certainly won't help the case.

I don't think it'll hurt much either.  All it takes is convincing one guy that he's the missing piece to put them over the top.   Philly is certainly on the rise and a high profile team. 

I don't think drawing FAs will be an issue.

I am more interested to see if they swing a trade for someone like Leonard, or just decide to run it back (assuming they don't land James) and try for Klay Thompson the following summer.  With the Colangelos running the show I can totally see the Sixers wasting their cap space on mid-tier players this summer and blow a shot at Klay.

They need to decide what to do with Reddick. He fits, for sure. But he will want what, $3/60?

I doubt it. The Sixers overpaid to get him to come mentor the young'uns for a year. He knows that. I doubt his next contract will be $20 mil a year.

[spikelovetheCelts]

They have 2 picks this year if we don't get 1 and a ton of seconds to help them move up,
Fultz will be a good player. They should have a good playoff run. We need to get us a big to go them.

[Celtics4ever]

Fultz will be a good player

I'll take this bet.

[LarBrd33]

Why did this guy “step down,” again? I vaguely recall him being fired, but it looks like he just stepped down. Says a lot about his genius ideas that he vacated his position...

Short version is that the rest of the league was getting pretty irritated that Philly was exploiting the lotto.  Also important, NBA agents and the players union were getting irritated that Philly wasn't giving vets contracts and instead was just staying near the cap floor and bringing up d-leaguers.  The media was in an uproar about it as well.  So the Colangelos were brought in - some say the league forced Philly's hand.  Hinkie stayed on initially, but eventually stepped down when it was clear he was going to have to share power.

Nothing really changed, though.  They finished out their tank job that year.  They didn't make any veteran signings.  They didn't trade for any quality role players.  They kept with Hinkie's plan.  Basically Hinkie was the scapegoat that allowed them to say "things are different now!" when really they weren't.

Yeah, it's not like they signed JJ Redick for 1 year, $23 million.

Oh wait...

You misunderstood what I was saying.

When Hinkie stepped down, nothing changed.  They didn't make any veteran signings (other than bring in Elton Brand which was basically just a publicity stunt).   They still tanked.  Even the year after once they realized Simmons was hurt, they didn't really try to put together a competitive team.   That was what Hinkie would have done... maximize the chance of getting a good pick.

This year once they realized Embiid and Simmons were healthy, they finally opened up the pocketbooks and signed guys like Amir and Redick.  That was always going to happen.  I literally said three years ago that Philly would have no trouble signing the Amir Johnsons of the world once they were ready.  The loose "plan" was to put themselves into position to a foundation talent (or two) and then fill out the roster.  They did exactly that.  A rare instance where a 5 year re-build actually works out.  It's been less than 5 years since Hinkie was hired and Philly has gone from an irrelevant non-factor to one of the most talented teams in the East with cap space to spare.

[Bucketgetter]

Why did this guy “step down,” again? I vaguely recall him being fired, but it looks like he just stepped down. Says a lot about his genius ideas that he vacated his position...

Short version is that the rest of the league was getting pretty irritated that Philly was exploiting the lotto.  Also important, NBA agents and the players union were getting irritated that Philly wasn't giving vets contracts and instead was just staying near the cap floor and bringing up d-leaguers.  The media was in an uproar about it as well.  So the Colangelos were brought in - some say the league forced Philly's hand.  Hinkie stayed on initially, but eventually stepped down when it was clear he was going to have to share power.

Nothing really changed, though.  They finished out their tank job that year.  They didn't make any veteran signings.  They didn't trade for any quality role players.  They kept with Hinkie's plan.  Basically Hinkie was the scapegoat that allowed them to say "things are different now!" when really they weren't.

Yeah, it's not like they signed JJ Redick for 1 year, $23 million.

Oh wait...

You misunderstood what I was saying.

When Hinkie stepped down, nothing changed.  They didn't make any veteran signings (other than bring in Elton Brand which was basically just a publicity stunt).   They still tanked.  Even the year after once they realized Simmons was hurt, they didn't really try to put together a competitive team.   That was what Hinkie would have done... maximize the chance of getting a good pick.

This year once they realized Embiid and Simmons were healthy, they finally opened up the pocketbooks and signed guys like Amir and Redick.  That was always going to happen.  I literally said three years ago that Philly would have no trouble signing the Amir Johnsons of the world once they were ready.  The loose "plan" was to put themselves into position to a foundation talent (or two) and then fill out the roster.  They did exactly that.  A rare instance where a 5 year re-build actually works out.  It's been less than 5 years since Hinkie was hired and Philly has gone from an irrelevant non-factor to one of the most talented teams in the East with cap space to spare.

You said "Nothing really changed, though". That's why I told you that things have changed. If you meant to say to things didn't change until last offseason, you should have said that. Then I would know what you're trying to articulate.

[colincb]

Not a genius. Not 100% right.

He made a lot of good moves and some bad ones. PO'd a lot of people though, especially agents.

[LarBrd33]

Why did this guy “step down,” again? I vaguely recall him being fired, but it looks like he just stepped down. Says a lot about his genius ideas that he vacated his position...

Short version is that the rest of the league was getting pretty irritated that Philly was exploiting the lotto.  Also important, NBA agents and the players union were getting irritated that Philly wasn't giving vets contracts and instead was just staying near the cap floor and bringing up d-leaguers.  The media was in an uproar about it as well.  So the Colangelos were brought in - some say the league forced Philly's hand.  Hinkie stayed on initially, but eventually stepped down when it was clear he was going to have to share power.

Nothing really changed, though.  They finished out their tank job that year.  They didn't make any veteran signings.  They didn't trade for any quality role players.  They kept with Hinkie's plan.  Basically Hinkie was the scapegoat that allowed them to say "things are different now!" when really they weren't.

Yeah, it's not like they signed JJ Redick for 1 year, $23 million.

Oh wait...

You misunderstood what I was saying.

When Hinkie stepped down, nothing changed.  They didn't make any veteran signings (other than bring in Elton Brand which was basically just a publicity stunt).   They still tanked.  Even the year after once they realized Simmons was hurt, they didn't really try to put together a competitive team.   That was what Hinkie would have done... maximize the chance of getting a good pick.

This year once they realized Embiid and Simmons were healthy, they finally opened up the pocketbooks and signed guys like Amir and Redick.  That was always going to happen.  I literally said three years ago that Philly would have no trouble signing the Amir Johnsons of the world once they were ready.  The loose "plan" was to put themselves into position to a foundation talent (or two) and then fill out the roster.  They did exactly that.  A rare instance where a 5 year re-build actually works out.  It's been less than 5 years since Hinkie was hired and Philly has gone from an irrelevant non-factor to one of the most talented teams in the East with cap space to spare.

You said "Nothing really changed, though". That's why I told you that things have changed. If you meant to say to things didn't change until last offseason, you should have said that. Then I would know what you're trying to articulate.

Nothing changed with the plan.  I was specifically referring to the season Hinkie stepped down.  People expected some immediate change now that Hinkie had been vanquished, but he was just a fallguy that allowed Philly to keep chugging along with the plan while taking less heat from the naysayers.

Hinkie wouldn't have perpetually tanked.  At some point he was going to fill out the rosters with the Amir Johnsons of the world.  I told people that in 2016. 

But in the short-term it made the most sense to tank.  I'm specifically talking about when Hinkie stepped down in April 6th 2016. 

That very same day I had the following to say on Celticsblog:

The other thing, like you say, is that the process was never a guarantee to land the next Lebron James.  Having skimmed hinkies letter it's clear he's aware of this.  He said at best an elite prospect has a 10% chance of ending up a superstar.  But you miss every shot you don't take.  The team was dedicated to the idea that you need a superstar to contend in this league (fact) and they needed to do everything possible to maximize their chances at getting one.  So for 3 years they avoided doing anything (like sign the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world) to maximize their chance of getting stars via the draft.  They decided free agency wasn't a viable option for them (at the time they were over the cap) and they didn't have the assets to trade for one.

Now, when the dust settles on this, one of their 6+ seeds might actually end up growing into a superstar. Beyond that they now have 80 mil in cap space so they can at least go after big name free agents... Lastly, they can probably add about 15-20 wins just by opening their pockets for some veteran role players.  Even if the Durants of the world are unlikely, I guarantee you the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world will be happy to take Philly's money when offered.

They are in great position for a quick turnaround.  Some folks just don't get it.  Tunnel vision prevents some fans from seeing the possibilities there.

When Hinkie stepped down there was all sorts of celebration about how the league was forcing Philly to stop tanking.  That they'd trade their assets for decent players.  That they'd sign a bunch of veterans immediately and go all-in on winning.  I knew that was ridiculous.  They finished out the tank job that season and landed Ben Simmons.  They didn't make any additions that following Summer that would take them out of the bottom 5.  They actually went for one more bonus tank job.

Then, sure enough just as I guaranteed, as soon as they saw Embiid and Simmons were going to be healthy, they literally signed Amir Johnson on July 2017.  Just as I promised, vets were more than willing to take PHilly's money - and JJ Reddick took 23 million that same month. 

The point I was making was that the general plan that Hinkie laid out (and I explained the day he stepped down) didn't really change.   

[Bucketgetter]

Why did this guy “step down,” again? I vaguely recall him being fired, but it looks like he just stepped down. Says a lot about his genius ideas that he vacated his position...

Short version is that the rest of the league was getting pretty irritated that Philly was exploiting the lotto.  Also important, NBA agents and the players union were getting irritated that Philly wasn't giving vets contracts and instead was just staying near the cap floor and bringing up d-leaguers.  The media was in an uproar about it as well.  So the Colangelos were brought in - some say the league forced Philly's hand.  Hinkie stayed on initially, but eventually stepped down when it was clear he was going to have to share power.

Nothing really changed, though.  They finished out their tank job that year.  They didn't make any veteran signings.  They didn't trade for any quality role players.  They kept with Hinkie's plan.  Basically Hinkie was the scapegoat that allowed them to say "things are different now!" when really they weren't.

Yeah, it's not like they signed JJ Redick for 1 year, $23 million.

Oh wait...

You misunderstood what I was saying.

When Hinkie stepped down, nothing changed.  They didn't make any veteran signings (other than bring in Elton Brand which was basically just a publicity stunt).   They still tanked.  Even the year after once they realized Simmons was hurt, they didn't really try to put together a competitive team.   That was what Hinkie would have done... maximize the chance of getting a good pick.

This year once they realized Embiid and Simmons were healthy, they finally opened up the pocketbooks and signed guys like Amir and Redick.  That was always going to happen.  I literally said three years ago that Philly would have no trouble signing the Amir Johnsons of the world once they were ready.  The loose "plan" was to put themselves into position to a foundation talent (or two) and then fill out the roster.  They did exactly that.  A rare instance where a 5 year re-build actually works out.  It's been less than 5 years since Hinkie was hired and Philly has gone from an irrelevant non-factor to one of the most talented teams in the East with cap space to spare.

You said "Nothing really changed, though". That's why I told you that things have changed. If you meant to say to things didn't change until last offseason, you should have said that. Then I would know what you're trying to articulate.

Nothing changed with the plan.  I was specifically referring to the season Hinkie stepped down.  People expected some immediate change now that Hinkie had been vanquished, but he was just a fallguy that allowed Philly to keep chugging along with the plan while taking less heat from the naysayers.

Hinkie wouldn't have perpetually tanked.  At some point he was going to fill out the rosters with the Amir Johnsons of the world.  I told people that in 2016. 

But in the short-term it made the most sense to tank.  I'm specifically talking about when Hinkie stepped down in April 6th 2016. 

That very same day I had the following to say on Celticsblog:

The other thing, like you say, is that the process was never a guarantee to land the next Lebron James.  Having skimmed hinkies letter it's clear he's aware of this.  He said at best an elite prospect has a 10% chance of ending up a superstar.  But you miss every shot you don't take.  The team was dedicated to the idea that you need a superstar to contend in this league (fact) and they needed to do everything possible to maximize their chances at getting one.  So for 3 years they avoided doing anything (like sign the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world) to maximize their chance of getting stars via the draft.  They decided free agency wasn't a viable option for them (at the time they were over the cap) and they didn't have the assets to trade for one.

Now, when the dust settles on this, one of their 6+ seeds might actually end up growing into a superstar. Beyond that they now have 80 mil in cap space so they can at least go after big name free agents... Lastly, they can probably add about 15-20 wins just by opening their pockets for some veteran role players.  Even if the Durants of the world are unlikely, I guarantee you the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world will be happy to take Philly's money when offered.

They are in great position for a quick turnaround.  Some folks just don't get it.  Tunnel vision prevents some fans from seeing the possibilities there.

When Hinkie stepped down there was all sorts of celebration about how the league was forcing Philly to stop tanking.  That they'd trade their assets for decent players.  That they'd sign a bunch of veterans immediately and go all-in on winning.  I knew that was ridiculous.  They finished out the tank job that season and landed Ben Simmons.  They didn't make any additions that following Summer that would take them out of the bottom 5.  They actually went for one more bonus tank job.

Then, sure enough just as I guaranteed, as soon as they saw Embiid and Simmons were going to be healthy, they literally signed Amir Johnson on July 2017.  Just as I promised, vets were more than willing to take PHilly's money - and JJ Reddick took 23 million that same month. 

The point I was making was that the general plan that Hinkie laid out (and I explained the day he stepped down) didn't really change.

I understand what you were trying to say now. You just need to articulate yourself better. I can only read what you're writing, not what you're thinking. So when you make a statement like, "nothing really changed, though", I'm going to assume you think nothing changed.

[Moranis]

Why did this guy “step down,” again? I vaguely recall him being fired, but it looks like he just stepped down. Says a lot about his genius ideas that he vacated his position...

Short version is that the rest of the league was getting pretty irritated that Philly was exploiting the lotto.  Also important, NBA agents and the players union were getting irritated that Philly wasn't giving vets contracts and instead was just staying near the cap floor and bringing up d-leaguers.  The media was in an uproar about it as well.  So the Colangelos were brought in - some say the league forced Philly's hand.  Hinkie stayed on initially, but eventually stepped down when it was clear he was going to have to share power.

Nothing really changed, though.  They finished out their tank job that year.  They didn't make any veteran signings.  They didn't trade for any quality role players.  They kept with Hinkie's plan.  Basically Hinkie was the scapegoat that allowed them to say "things are different now!" when really they weren't.

Yeah, it's not like they signed JJ Redick for 1 year, $23 million.

Oh wait...

You misunderstood what I was saying.

When Hinkie stepped down, nothing changed.  They didn't make any veteran signings (other than bring in Elton Brand which was basically just a publicity stunt).   They still tanked.  Even the year after once they realized Simmons was hurt, they didn't really try to put together a competitive team.   That was what Hinkie would have done... maximize the chance of getting a good pick.

This year once they realized Embiid and Simmons were healthy, they finally opened up the pocketbooks and signed guys like Amir and Redick.  That was always going to happen.  I literally said three years ago that Philly would have no trouble signing the Amir Johnsons of the world once they were ready.  The loose "plan" was to put themselves into position to a foundation talent (or two) and then fill out the roster.  They did exactly that.  A rare instance where a 5 year re-build actually works out.  It's been less than 5 years since Hinkie was hired and Philly has gone from an irrelevant non-factor to one of the most talented teams in the East with cap space to spare.

You said "Nothing really changed, though". That's why I told you that things have changed. If you meant to say to things didn't change until last offseason, you should have said that. Then I would know what you're trying to articulate.

Nothing changed with the plan.  I was specifically referring to the season Hinkie stepped down.  People expected some immediate change now that Hinkie had been vanquished, but he was just a fallguy that allowed Philly to keep chugging along with the plan while taking less heat from the naysayers.

Hinkie wouldn't have perpetually tanked.  At some point he was going to fill out the rosters with the Amir Johnsons of the world.  I told people that in 2016. 

But in the short-term it made the most sense to tank.  I'm specifically talking about when Hinkie stepped down in April 6th 2016. 

That very same day I had the following to say on Celticsblog:

The other thing, like you say, is that the process was never a guarantee to land the next Lebron James.  Having skimmed hinkies letter it's clear he's aware of this.  He said at best an elite prospect has a 10% chance of ending up a superstar.  But you miss every shot you don't take.  The team was dedicated to the idea that you need a superstar to contend in this league (fact) and they needed to do everything possible to maximize their chances at getting one.  So for 3 years they avoided doing anything (like sign the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world) to maximize their chance of getting stars via the draft.  They decided free agency wasn't a viable option for them (at the time they were over the cap) and they didn't have the assets to trade for one.

Now, when the dust settles on this, one of their 6+ seeds might actually end up growing into a superstar. Beyond that they now have 80 mil in cap space so they can at least go after big name free agents... Lastly, they can probably add about 15-20 wins just by opening their pockets for some veteran role players.  Even if the Durants of the world are unlikely, I guarantee you the Amir johnsons and Brandon basses of the world will be happy to take Philly's money when offered.

They are in great position for a quick turnaround.  Some folks just don't get it.  Tunnel vision prevents some fans from seeing the possibilities there.

When Hinkie stepped down there was all sorts of celebration about how the league was forcing Philly to stop tanking.  That they'd trade their assets for decent players.  That they'd sign a bunch of veterans immediately and go all-in on winning.  I knew that was ridiculous.  They finished out the tank job that season and landed Ben Simmons.  They didn't make any additions that following Summer that would take them out of the bottom 5.  They actually went for one more bonus tank job.

Then, sure enough just as I guaranteed, as soon as they saw Embiid and Simmons were going to be healthy, they literally signed Amir Johnson on July 2017.  Just as I promised, vets were more than willing to take PHilly's money - and JJ Reddick took 23 million that same month. 

The point I was making was that the general plan that Hinkie laid out (and I explained the day he stepped down) didn't really change.

I understand what you were trying to say now. You just need to articulate yourself better. I can only read what you're writing, not what you're thinking. So when you make a statement like, "nothing really changed, though", I'm going to assume you think nothing changed.

it was pretty clear whay he meant

[smokeablount]

Someone posted this article in CB http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/ - it is one of the few that put things in the right perspective.

We can go on debating the value of picks all we want, but Bernandoni's article brings out another important aspect of strategic tanking that often goes unnoticed, namely that it can't be tolerated for long in a closed league like the NBA.

The part of Philly's tanking that was disturbing to other franchises wasn't so much their trades (although there is something to be said about trading Jrue Holiday for an injured Noel) nor drafting an injured Embiid - despite how absured it is now for the same franchise to claim Embiid's fragile health as an excuse.

Strategic tanking was a defense of egoism at its worse, abusing the letter of the law to get highly valued assets while ignoring your team's obligations to the league, as if Philadelphia itself wasn't part of the NBA and existed in a vaccuum. It was only a question of time for NBA to interfere and ask for Hinkie to be fired teaching them that egoism is a sword that cuts both ways.

the thing is Philly doesn't have the worst season ever, doesn't have the 2 worst consecutive seasons ever, doesn't have the 3 or 4 worst seasons ever either and only finished with the worst record in the league 1 time.  This idea that Philly was the worst ever just isn't true.  They were bad, but not record setting bad.  They weren't the first team to openly tank and aren't the last team to openly tank.  The league survives just fine.

What point are you trying to make? I don't see anyone who said the 76ers were the worst team ever. Per their record they were the 3rd worst team ever which was preceded by two seasons of under 20 wins. It may not be the worst 3 year stretch ever but it's close. The Dallas Mavs of 91-93 probably were worse as were one of Sterling's Clippers teams and maybe the expansion Grizzlies but it's tough to find many more cases of teams that were truly horrible. That they're not the "worst ever" isn't really an argument to make in favor of Hinkie. If that's your argument then you've lost the plot.

As I said before, Hinkie's entire game plan was hoping for luck. This doesn't take a genius to figure out nor did it take any imagination. It simply means you play those odds long enough for them to swing in your favor. I find it laughable that anyone thinks this is some sort of brilliant strategy.

would you rather be the Sixers or the Kings?  Or maybe you prefer to be the Suns?  Perhaps the Magic or Lakers?  Maybe the Knicks are more your style?

Playing the odds isn't luck, it is in fact a strategy.  Maybe if those 5 teams above were a bit smarter they wouldn't still be so bad and might have a brighter outlook.  I mean the Kings haven't made the playoffs in 12 seasons, the Suns have now gone 8 seasons, the Magic are at 6 and counting.  Even the Knicks and Lakers are now 5 years in without making the playoffs, which is the exact amount of time the Sixers were out of the playoffs (the Nuggets are 5 years in as well, though they at least just missed the playoffs this year). 

Or maybe you'd rather be a franchise like the Hornets that has now gone 15 seasons without reaching the 2nd round of the playoffs and only had 3 1st round losses in that time.  Does that seem like a winning strategy?  The Pistons have 1 playoff appearance in the last 9 seasons and just 1 winning season in the last 10 seasons.  Are they employing a winning strategy?

Id rather be the Celtics.